Following the discussions we've been having recently regarding speeding, observation, etc I would like to put forward a suggestion; that the driving test as we know it should be scrapped. Or rather, it should be the first stage of testing, carried out off public roads, which would allow a prospective driver to gain a provisional license to begin learning to drive on the road. What we know as at present as an advanced driving test should be regarded as the minimum requirement to drive without supervision, and this test should be repeated every 5years maximum. I believe this would radically reduce the number of accidents since drivers whose observation skills were questionable would fail to gain a license and those left on the roads would have the neccessary training to make the best of their observations. As I have said before on this forum, I believe all accidents are caused by one of two things. Either poor observation or bad judgement, and the standard driving test does not require much of an education in either.
new driving standards
- Thread starter mcghee
- Start date
I think a refresher every 5 yrs is a good idea, unfortunately it would not get much backing if it was a retest.
The current test stations in the UK cannot handle the amount of people who want to pass now, getting everyone to retest every 5 yrs would break the system
The current test stations in the UK cannot handle the amount of people who want to pass now, getting everyone to retest every 5 yrs would break the system
I think the answer would be more police on the roads again and more severe financial penalties for an offence with lesser points for a ban. In the paper today was an article about a man who had 31 points on his licence but was not banned for compassionate reasons. This in my opinion is taking the mickey out of the judicial system and the police must be really gutted - what point is there charging a person if he/she will get away with it in court with a slapped wrist.
Try not paying your Council Tax, especially if you are a pensioner, and watch the judicial system work flat out.
Sort the roads out and inmprove traffic flow, sort out road repairs schedules to minimise hold ups.
Keep Mr Plod away from the roads and let them deal with real crime.
License idea is fine but it will never happen, but the police should be pulling for bad driving practice in general not some guy doinf 75 on the M'WAy.
Keep Mr Plod away from the roads and let them deal with real crime.
License idea is fine but it will never happen, but the police should be pulling for bad driving practice in general not some guy doinf 75 on the M'WAy.
Craig
I all for make the road more safer but I can not see how your thing for every one to take there test every five years. Just think of the work load it would make.
I think we need to get more polices car back on the road to start catch the bad diver and other thing that go on.
Sorry Craig I now it sound if I gone off the thread a bit but the thing is and till we get the way the road are policies now days sorted out I can not see thing get better. Because a lot of bad thing go unseen now days with the lack of the policing on the roads
Mark
I all for make the road more safer but I can not see how your thing for every one to take there test every five years. Just think of the work load it would make.
I think we need to get more polices car back on the road to start catch the bad diver and other thing that go on.
Sorry Craig I now it sound if I gone off the thread a bit but the thing is and till we get the way the road are policies now days sorted out I can not see thing get better. Because a lot of bad thing go unseen now days with the lack of the policing on the roads
Mark
The reason retesting would work is because every driver would need to use the skills and methods being taught everytime they drove, otherwise they would possibly fail the test and be taken off the road. Putting more police out there may work but would you rather have millions of dodgy drivers on the road and hope they get caught, or not have the dodgy drivers on the road in the first place? the reason our roads are such a dangerous place is because it's so easy to get a license.
I don't know if it is easy to get a licence. But it is easy to ignore what you have learnt and just drive how you want once you have passed your test.
I would like to see insurance companies offer a good discount for people who go on to do advanced driving / Riding. Some say they do but in the real world this is not much at all.
On the subject of bike licences, its about time they removed the direct access licence as with the bigger bikes experience is far more important than it is in a car or a smaller / slower bike. (yes, I did do direct access myself).
I would like to see insurance companies offer a good discount for people who go on to do advanced driving / Riding. Some say they do but in the real world this is not much at all.
On the subject of bike licences, its about time they removed the direct access licence as with the bigger bikes experience is far more important than it is in a car or a smaller / slower bike. (yes, I did do direct access myself).
Advanced driving qualifications have never saved me a penny on insurance, can always get a better deal than the companies that offer a discount.
I have observed many a learner motor cyclist under instruction, as an advanced level rider and former instructor I am shocked by some of whatI've seen being shown to these riders.
I would advise any rider to go and do an advanced Defensive or IAM course before you get carried away after the test.
A little word in the ear of some drivers from the boys in Blue and a little ticket saying they had to attend a refresher course withing 12 weeks and present the pass at the local nick and maybe watch and explanation video might help!
As for more Police on the roads, its a joke.
I've travelled over 4 thousand miles on holday in Europe over 3+ weeks and seen less Police than in a morning on the roads around Berks and Surrey and witnessed far better driving and less troubles.
If you want to see things change on the roads here, you need a few changes in the way this country is.
You need more roads and a change in people attitudes and behaviour in general. More effort in keeping traffic flowing than keep stopping and trying to control it causing more stress for drivers.
In europe, Ive seen school kids approached by police and stop dead in their tracks. Not run or mouth off.
Lack of disciplin from childhood through to drunken booze fueled binge drinking and the drunken/ drug fuelled / obnoxious behaviour seen on our streets needs to be changed if you want to see a change in road behaviour.
Respect has to be a big factor in our driving standards, if our British society had respect for the Law and other people in general you would see a change on the roads.
A 24/7 culture with people scared to take a full lunch break and workers from all sectors striving to meet targets just leads to more chaos in our road use!
A friend had a traffic calming initiative petition around where he lived. A group of locals he knew were concerned about people using the areas roads as a "rat run", he asked some of them and others in a dabate at the local pub where they all worked and the route they took. Most took short cut("rat runs") within a mile or two from home.
Looking at others and then justify what you are doing on the roads and show others a little more respect on and off the roads. Transference of attitudes in life to the actions seen on the road is clearly obvious.
A few more PC Plods in jam sandwich's isn't going to sort the roads, and paying said PC a bonus to nick people does not help generate the respect for many fine Police Officers in therir Patrol cars or other rolls.
I have observed many a learner motor cyclist under instruction, as an advanced level rider and former instructor I am shocked by some of whatI've seen being shown to these riders.
I would advise any rider to go and do an advanced Defensive or IAM course before you get carried away after the test.
A little word in the ear of some drivers from the boys in Blue and a little ticket saying they had to attend a refresher course withing 12 weeks and present the pass at the local nick and maybe watch and explanation video might help!
As for more Police on the roads, its a joke.
I've travelled over 4 thousand miles on holday in Europe over 3+ weeks and seen less Police than in a morning on the roads around Berks and Surrey and witnessed far better driving and less troubles.
If you want to see things change on the roads here, you need a few changes in the way this country is.
You need more roads and a change in people attitudes and behaviour in general. More effort in keeping traffic flowing than keep stopping and trying to control it causing more stress for drivers.
In europe, Ive seen school kids approached by police and stop dead in their tracks. Not run or mouth off.
Lack of disciplin from childhood through to drunken booze fueled binge drinking and the drunken/ drug fuelled / obnoxious behaviour seen on our streets needs to be changed if you want to see a change in road behaviour.
Respect has to be a big factor in our driving standards, if our British society had respect for the Law and other people in general you would see a change on the roads.
A 24/7 culture with people scared to take a full lunch break and workers from all sectors striving to meet targets just leads to more chaos in our road use!
A friend had a traffic calming initiative petition around where he lived. A group of locals he knew were concerned about people using the areas roads as a "rat run", he asked some of them and others in a dabate at the local pub where they all worked and the route they took. Most took short cut("rat runs") within a mile or two from home.
Looking at others and then justify what you are doing on the roads and show others a little more respect on and off the roads. Transference of attitudes in life to the actions seen on the road is clearly obvious.
A few more PC Plods in jam sandwich's isn't going to sort the roads, and paying said PC a bonus to nick people does not help generate the respect for many fine Police Officers in therir Patrol cars or other rolls.
I have thought for a number of years that ALL drivers should have a regular eyesight test. These should be no less than 5 years apart, at the driver's own expense, carried out by a registered opthalmologist. The driver will then be given a certificate proving his/her eyesight is OK for driving and they would have to produce this along with their licence when requested. I read somewhere of the frightening number of people (young and old) driving around with eyesight which is not up to the job!
Specsavers send me yearly reminders and phone me up at home and on my mobile if I don't go and see them for an eye test!
How many spec wearers have second set of glasses ALWAYS in there car or on their bikes like me.
How many spec wearers have second set of glasses ALWAYS in there car or on their bikes like me.
I think a retest would only stop a small proportion of people.
I think there are two types of drivers
1. Those who learn how to work the peddles to get from a to b most oftenly with eyes shut, not being able to read road signs and limts. And forget or deliberately ignore what they have been taught.
2. Those who love driving for the sake of driving and can read, look ahead, and antsipate.
Which are YOU? 1 OR 2.
Me I'm number 2.
I think there are two types of drivers
1. Those who learn how to work the peddles to get from a to b most oftenly with eyes shut, not being able to read road signs and limts. And forget or deliberately ignore what they have been taught.
2. Those who love driving for the sake of driving and can read, look ahead, and antsipate.
Which are YOU? 1 OR 2.
Me I'm number 2.
me, Neither
I can read the road, look ahead and anticipate what may happen. But I lost the love of driving many yrs ago.
I can read the road, look ahead and anticipate what may happen. But I lost the love of driving many yrs ago.
I know what you mean Steve, it's sometimes a battle getting from a to b. I'm fortunate enough to live in an aera where I don't need to go too far to find quiet roads where I can enjoy being behind the wheel. Regarding Jo's point about eyesight; it's a fair point, but I'm more worried by the people who have good eyesight but just don't look.
I now drive because I have to, I ride the bike for fun and do have a lot of local roads that are great for the bike. I now only really ride early in the morning on my own as it allows me to worry less about others who are in a rush. When I ride during the day or to get o work and back, I use very high visibility vests and take the back routes
Having said that, the wife and I spent a day in the cotswolds a few weeks ago, just driving around looking at all the little villages etc. That was fun and relaxing, but more because the roads where empty than the location.
Having said that, the wife and I spent a day in the cotswolds a few weeks ago, just driving around looking at all the little villages etc. That was fun and relaxing, but more because the roads where empty than the location.
Some years ago (about 30 I think) my brother and I went on a Kent Police run Better Driving course.
These courses were run for the public at police headquarters in their driving school. For a fairly small fee you attended a seies of evening lectures using films, graphics and real examples of driving errors and accidents. All the insructers were experienced police drivers and the emphasis was on driving safely and fast using the police "method". There was never any ranting about speed being dangerous and certainly no "holier than thou" attitude.
After about four or five evenings we had a Saturday session which took place on the skid pan, with an instructor in the passenger seat, urging you to go faster and then taking great delight in yanking on the hand brake when you least expected it.
The session ended with us going out in a police car for a demonstration drive by one of the instructors. This was to show you how it realy should be done and included the driver giving a running commentary of what he was observing.
The whole thing was well run, great fun and above all we both learnt things that we still remember and use to this day.
This sort of training would be even more valuable today with our overcrowded roads.
Yes I know it would cost money but it did then and it was done for a number of years. The savings in the cost of death and injury plus the fees generated could make it a cost effective scheme to re-introduce on a voluntary basis.
The standards of driving, as has been expressed on this forum, have deteriorated markedly over the last few years and I think are getting steadily worse.
There needs to be some urgent action from the top to turn things around and it will not happen by putting more yellow money boxes by the side of every road.
Speed does not kill but bad drivers do.
These courses were run for the public at police headquarters in their driving school. For a fairly small fee you attended a seies of evening lectures using films, graphics and real examples of driving errors and accidents. All the insructers were experienced police drivers and the emphasis was on driving safely and fast using the police "method". There was never any ranting about speed being dangerous and certainly no "holier than thou" attitude.
After about four or five evenings we had a Saturday session which took place on the skid pan, with an instructor in the passenger seat, urging you to go faster and then taking great delight in yanking on the hand brake when you least expected it.
The session ended with us going out in a police car for a demonstration drive by one of the instructors. This was to show you how it realy should be done and included the driver giving a running commentary of what he was observing.
The whole thing was well run, great fun and above all we both learnt things that we still remember and use to this day.
This sort of training would be even more valuable today with our overcrowded roads.
Yes I know it would cost money but it did then and it was done for a number of years. The savings in the cost of death and injury plus the fees generated could make it a cost effective scheme to re-introduce on a voluntary basis.
The standards of driving, as has been expressed on this forum, have deteriorated markedly over the last few years and I think are getting steadily worse.
There needs to be some urgent action from the top to turn things around and it will not happen by putting more yellow money boxes by the side of every road.
Speed does not kill but bad drivers do.
There is an easy way to decide if speed, or faster motion is hurtful. Stand in your own home and walk briskly towards your closed front door. Don't stop until you strike it. Now repeat by running as fast as you can at the front door. Please confirm the hurt/damage to yourself is the same??? However you dress it up, you cannot defy the laws of Physics.
Cris
What dues the Advanced driving qualification.
I would like to hove a go at it but do not now if I cud with my spelling
Mark
What dues the Advanced driving qualification.
I would like to hove a go at it but do not now if I cud with my spelling
Mark
Mark
There is no reason why you cannot do advanced driving. Take a look at http://www.iam.org.uk/ and contact them for your local group.
http://www.iam.org.uk/IAMGroups/regions.phpwill help you find yours
Steve
There is no reason why you cannot do advanced driving. Take a look at http://www.iam.org.uk/ and contact them for your local group.
http://www.iam.org.uk/IAMGroups/regions.phpwill help you find yours
Steve
Was going to reply earlier but unfortunately I've been unconscious on the front doormat after continually running into the door trying out this theory. Still not sure, but it do hurt!!
Hello Craig,
I agree that some method of continuing to assess and demonstrate competency at driving would be a significant aid to improving general driving standards, however the people that would loose their licenses through your suggestion are the few that probably wouldn't care, and would continue to drive - without licence and insurance and still be danger to other law abiding citizens.
Hello Colin,
The concept of putting more police into traffic duty to catch offenders worries me, because it does not tackle the root cause, which as Craig has suggested is an outdated testing system. Prevention is better than cure, Better training would help, But I do agree that the penalties for offending should become more of a deterrent.
Hello Cris,
I agree with the idea of improving traffic flow, there are many examples of poor road design, and some inappropriate speed limits. But a speed limit is just that, and despite your claims to be an advanced driver and having openly admitted to doing reckless speeds in the UK on other threads, you do live in the UK, and the rules say do not speed - so if you exceed the speed limit why should you not expect to be prosecuted - you have broken the law! You seem to be an example of your own description of what's wrong with society - lack of respect for the law. I hope that with advancing years you have seen the error of your ways.
Hello Sparks
You are quite right. Driving lessons teach you how to pass the test, which as most experienced drivers know is inadequate in many ways. I recall my own driving instructor saying after my test, 'now you can learn to drive'! The test should become more realistic and cover the great omission of motorway driving amongst others. There should be some incentive to continue to use good practice, rather than slipping into bad habits, but how can that be achieved - any suggestions
Hello Jo,
Eyesight tests ehmm: how about hearing, reaction speed, reading, pedal effort, etc tests, in fact why don't driver have to pass a full medical to maintain their licence - some drivers (bus and HGV) already do, so why not all drivers? We all use the same roads, and most of the vehicles have the same potential to injure or main!
A lot of the above are good ideas, but it would need a government with a cast iron majority to be able to enact any of it, and then what about the reaction from those drivers that feel as though their human rights have been infringed.
Lets have some more thoughts
I agree that some method of continuing to assess and demonstrate competency at driving would be a significant aid to improving general driving standards, however the people that would loose their licenses through your suggestion are the few that probably wouldn't care, and would continue to drive - without licence and insurance and still be danger to other law abiding citizens.
Hello Colin,
The concept of putting more police into traffic duty to catch offenders worries me, because it does not tackle the root cause, which as Craig has suggested is an outdated testing system. Prevention is better than cure, Better training would help, But I do agree that the penalties for offending should become more of a deterrent.
Hello Cris,
I agree with the idea of improving traffic flow, there are many examples of poor road design, and some inappropriate speed limits. But a speed limit is just that, and despite your claims to be an advanced driver and having openly admitted to doing reckless speeds in the UK on other threads, you do live in the UK, and the rules say do not speed - so if you exceed the speed limit why should you not expect to be prosecuted - you have broken the law! You seem to be an example of your own description of what's wrong with society - lack of respect for the law. I hope that with advancing years you have seen the error of your ways.
Hello Sparks
You are quite right. Driving lessons teach you how to pass the test, which as most experienced drivers know is inadequate in many ways. I recall my own driving instructor saying after my test, 'now you can learn to drive'! The test should become more realistic and cover the great omission of motorway driving amongst others. There should be some incentive to continue to use good practice, rather than slipping into bad habits, but how can that be achieved - any suggestions
Hello Jo,
Eyesight tests ehmm: how about hearing, reaction speed, reading, pedal effort, etc tests, in fact why don't driver have to pass a full medical to maintain their licence - some drivers (bus and HGV) already do, so why not all drivers? We all use the same roads, and most of the vehicles have the same potential to injure or main!
A lot of the above are good ideas, but it would need a government with a cast iron majority to be able to enact any of it, and then what about the reaction from those drivers that feel as though their human rights have been infringed.
Lets have some more thoughts
John
I am not skilled enough in the area to really make a difference but this is my idea.
Update the test to cover motorways, high speed and skid training. Then when someone passes give them a P plate for 12 months.
After 12 months the driver must take another test that validates that they have progressed and have an understanding of the road and how to drive safely. Only after passing this second test will someone get a full licence.
Insurance companies could offer the required policy to cover the 12 months as it would be the same as if a person passes now.
Maybe even bypass the second test if you take and pass an advanced course, this would be a good incentive for people to do the IAM or Rospa style training.
Steve
I am not skilled enough in the area to really make a difference but this is my idea.
Update the test to cover motorways, high speed and skid training. Then when someone passes give them a P plate for 12 months.
After 12 months the driver must take another test that validates that they have progressed and have an understanding of the road and how to drive safely. Only after passing this second test will someone get a full licence.
Insurance companies could offer the required policy to cover the 12 months as it would be the same as if a person passes now.
Maybe even bypass the second test if you take and pass an advanced course, this would be a good incentive for people to do the IAM or Rospa style training.
Steve
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