Took delivery of new elddis & on 1st outing found many faults. It went back into dealers & came back with some faults rectified & some made worse. It's going back in to dealers when they get a new door & to hopefully be fixed correctly.
New elddis with faults
- Thread starter kevin1959
- Start date
If you reported the fault within a month of purchase then you should have a right to a refund if you want one but we can advise further if you give more detail.
Damian
Moderator
If you bought the van within the last 30 days or less then you have to ask yourself the following questions.
Did you order a van complete with faults ?
Are you happy to have been sold a van complete with faults?
If the answer to either is no, then get straight on to the dealer in writing and reject the van and demand all your money back.
Did you order a van complete with faults ?
Are you happy to have been sold a van complete with faults?
If the answer to either is no, then get straight on to the dealer in writing and reject the van and demand all your money back.
Faults reported after 10 days of collection & additional faults found & reported 14 days after collection.
Damian
Moderator
kevin1959 said:
Then by default you are happy to put up with an inferior quality expensive van.
In that case there is nothing more to be said !!
No wonder caravan makers have no incentive to improve their products !!!!!!
On the basis of what you say then I would agree with the Prof that you are entitled to reject the caravan. I do understand what he then says about accepting the faults but you do have to be realistic.
The faults are not detailed, so we do not know how serious they are, so it is difficult to judge what is realistically the best option. If this is the caravan you want and the faults are minor then it may be more sensible to keep it, but make sure you get them rectified and try and negotiate something for your trouble. If there is a lot involved in the towing you can claim the cost back but gain it depends what you are looking at whether it is realistic in practice.
If the faults are serious, then whatever you think about taking the old one back, I would still want my money back.
The faults are not detailed, so we do not know how serious they are, so it is difficult to judge what is realistically the best option. If this is the caravan you want and the faults are minor then it may be more sensible to keep it, but make sure you get them rectified and try and negotiate something for your trouble. If there is a lot involved in the towing you can claim the cost back but gain it depends what you are looking at whether it is realistic in practice.
If the faults are serious, then whatever you think about taking the old one back, I would still want my money back.
Not happy with faults that are in van, some of faults are fridge not working on 12 volt, awning rails not sealed properly, main door not secure, end panel on settee adrift, warped wardrobe door & minor tweeks to align cupboard doors correctly.We traded in for this one as layout works for us but willing to keep it if all faults are rectified to our satisfaction.
Raywood said:
:huh: Did I say that???? :woohoo:
Sorry Ray, not on this thread. BUT if others hadn't already pointed out the CRA entitlements then I probably would have done.
The point the OP makes about having to accept the PX'd van back is correct, but if the dealer has already disposed of it elsewhere, I believe the seller would have to find the cash equivalence.
Damian is also right! It's the fact that the buying public have not stood up for their statutory rights that allows the industry to get away with providing faulty or shoddy goods for so long, and it that means they will continue to ignore customer satisfaction in the cavalier way they do. They won't change until something makes them feel the pain they are causing their end users.
Don't feel sorry for the dealers, because it is the dealers who should be refusing to accept and returning faulty caravans to the manufacturers. Their responsibility should be to check that a caravan is complete and perfect in all respects, before it is sold onto an end user. That is what you pay them for especially when they charge you a PDI!!, thus if they sell you a faulty product, they have failed in their contractual duty to do an effective PDI, they are in breach of the CRA, and potential of the trades descriptions act.
Here's one for the melting pot!
If a caravan exhibits any faults (even spare screws rolling around on the floor) that is evidence the dealer has failed to do a PDI. If you have paid an identified sum for a PDI. that is a specific contract term, and the dealer is obliged to do it, and to do it in a fully professional manner. If there is any failure of that sort. it is evidence the dealer has not carried out their contractual obligation. and thus they are in breach of contract. You should be able to claim that part of the contract sum back even for the smallest infringement.
Kevin1959,
One point I would like you to clarify is the fridge not working on 12V.
A caravan fridge will not work off the 12v battery, it's 12v supply feed comes when it's connected to the car and the engine is running. Therefore this fault could be down to the towing electrics and not the caravan itself.
Regards,
One point I would like you to clarify is the fridge not working on 12V.
A caravan fridge will not work off the 12v battery, it's 12v supply feed comes when it's connected to the car and the engine is running. Therefore this fault could be down to the towing electrics and not the caravan itself.
Regards,
Lappy said:
Quite agree Lappy,
But that should have been explained at hand over and tested on the customers vehicle.
Damian
Moderator
Quote " But that should have been explained at hand over and tested on the customers vehicle. "
Yes it "should" have been, but in my dealings with dealers and handovers it rarely is, along with most other things.
All they want is your new van off their premises !!!!
Yes it "should" have been, but in my dealings with dealers and handovers it rarely is, along with most other things.
All they want is your new van off their premises !!!!
Remember that if any faults that have been repaired happen again within the 6 months you are still entitled to reject the caravan. You are going against good advice by not rejecting the caravan.
We made the same mistake not rejecting the caravan within the first 30 days and then spent the next 11 months taking the caravan back and forth to the dealer costing us time and money! We eventually rejected it 11 months after date of delivery and then had an uphill struggle getting a refund. We were successful.
At the moment you are condoning poor quality or workmanship and are happy to accept a shoddy caravan???
We made the same mistake not rejecting the caravan within the first 30 days and then spent the next 11 months taking the caravan back and forth to the dealer costing us time and money! We eventually rejected it 11 months after date of delivery and then had an uphill struggle getting a refund. We were successful.
At the moment you are condoning poor quality or workmanship and are happy to accept a shoddy caravan???
Given what is now said then personally I would be rejecting the caravan but that is a decision for the OP. Possibly a good dealer sorting the problems out might be a better solution as you do not have the potential for more problems with another new one.
I do take what is being said about the fridge though. Given that it only works on battery if the fridge is cold when you set off, and it will remain cool for some time, even if it is not working on battery but part full, it can be difficult to work out if it is working. If it does not it might be the car wiring adding another dimension to the problem.
With gas and mains cooling, it might be possible for these to be checked before sale, it could be too time consuming though, checking the battery operation is not possible in the real world.
We have bought a new caravan with a faulty fridge in our time. Everything appeared to be working when we took delivery but it simply did not work but we only found this out in mid summer in France. This was changed for us by the dealer on our return using a fridge from a stock model.
The initial post does refer to taking the old one back so I assume the dealer does still have it, but if not then i would agree the Prof's view.
I do take what is being said about the fridge though. Given that it only works on battery if the fridge is cold when you set off, and it will remain cool for some time, even if it is not working on battery but part full, it can be difficult to work out if it is working. If it does not it might be the car wiring adding another dimension to the problem.
With gas and mains cooling, it might be possible for these to be checked before sale, it could be too time consuming though, checking the battery operation is not possible in the real world.
We have bought a new caravan with a faulty fridge in our time. Everything appeared to be working when we took delivery but it simply did not work but we only found this out in mid summer in France. This was changed for us by the dealer on our return using a fridge from a stock model.
The initial post does refer to taking the old one back so I assume the dealer does still have it, but if not then i would agree the Prof's view.
Raywood said:
I'm sorry Ray but your statement is off the mark.
I'll forgive the reference to Battery becasue you really meant the 12v system,
However the effectiveness of caravan fridges is roughly the same regardless of which fuel or power source you use. becasue all the sources are rated roughly the same, and all they do is to provide heat to drive the absorption process. The fridge doesn't care whether its mains gas or 12V dc
What does change the game slightly is the fact that when a caravan is being towed, the passing around and through the fridge vents may affect the efficiency of the refrigeration cycle, and becasue the caravan is only moved when it is hitched to a tow vehicle, that will generally coincide with the use of 12V power. consequently the cooling ability may be slightly different - but certainly not stopped!
The other factor is of course the time the caravan is being towed, this is for relatively short times, so the cooling effect will not be a prolonged as when its sited and powered by mains or gas.
These two factors may give the impression that 12V does not work, but that is contrary to the facts.
In point of fact, in most fridges only the gas and Mains power are thermostatically controlled, so in principle the 12V system might cool the fridge further as the 12V is often not thermostatically regulated.
It certainly is best if you can pre-cool a fridge before travelling, and to load it with already chilled produce.
We were at Rookesbury for two days and on leaving switched to 12v before catching the ferry. We then stayed overnight at the campsite near Caen hooked up to EHU and then set off on a 5 hour journey with fridge on 12v.
On arrival at our destination the fridge was a lot warmer by several degrees than when we set off in the morning.
In contrast the Halfords cool box running on 12v was still cold and nothing had defrosted. Same with the small cool bag which had some frozen food and numerous ice blocks.
We have come to the conclusion that the 12v is not working on the fridge as at the very least it should have maintained the temperature. It it only got "warmer" by 1 or 2 degrees fair enough but several degrees is a bit much!
On arrival at our destination the fridge was a lot warmer by several degrees than when we set off in the morning.
In contrast the Halfords cool box running on 12v was still cold and nothing had defrosted. Same with the small cool bag which had some frozen food and numerous ice blocks.
We have come to the conclusion that the 12v is not working on the fridge as at the very least it should have maintained the temperature. It it only got "warmer" by 1 or 2 degrees fair enough but several degrees is a bit much!
ProfJohnL said:
Hi Prof, I am not an expert on fridges but I have always been taught that the fridge needs to be cooled before using 12 volts to tow and you are the first person I have come across that has suggested this is not the case. One point usually made on this is the very small diameter wiring which looses a lot of power because of the resistance encountered.
I have not come across anyone suggesting that there is an effective cooling effect from the wind passing over the fins although I can see the point. The vents though are on the side of the caravan and so I do wonder how great the effect will be.
My point in the post though was that it would be very difficult to check the 12 volt system was working before the OP was given the caravan.
Raywood said:
Hello Ray,
Lets take the electrical aspect first. Yes the 12V wiring will incur some losses, but providing they have been installed in accordance with accepted code of practice, they will safely handle the current a fridge requires, and the performance of the appliance should be within the manufactures specifications. No one should be using "very small diameter wiring" as the NCC code asks for minimum 1.5mm2 CSA, which should be fine up to 9A.
I did not say that the wind would provide effective cooling, I deliberately wrote "may affect the efficiency of the refrigeration cycle" which depending on a whole range of factors might improve, but could equally hinder the efficiency.
But as secondary evidence of the function of 12V fridges using the absorption process, the same process is used in many fridges fitted to marine applications, where there is no mains power only 12V from the engine or gas (subject to proper provision for the management of heavier than air gasses in hulls). So they do work... Honest!
An optical illusion :woohoo:
As Prof says all three power sources deliver enough power to correctly operate the fridge. The reality is that once on the move a number of variables come into play that may upset the equilibrium. We all know the fridge will only work correctly at plus or minus a few degrees off the level.
On the move the vent covers should reduce any wind factors. However imo all the movement of transit, pitching accelerating braking etc may well adversely affect the overall performance. I suspect if the same situation arose using 230 v or gas the result will be the same. Conversely if you run the 12 v system stationary with sufficient engine rpm the fridge will cool to perfection
As Prof says all three power sources deliver enough power to correctly operate the fridge. The reality is that once on the move a number of variables come into play that may upset the equilibrium. We all know the fridge will only work correctly at plus or minus a few degrees off the level.
On the move the vent covers should reduce any wind factors. However imo all the movement of transit, pitching accelerating braking etc may well adversely affect the overall performance. I suspect if the same situation arose using 230 v or gas the result will be the same. Conversely if you run the 12 v system stationary with sufficient engine rpm the fridge will cool to perfection
Mel
Moderator
You can ask but the OP can't answer. (Or if he does mods will have to delete the answer). Forum rules prohibit complaints about named dealers or other sellers.
Mel
Mel
Damian
Moderator
Grahamh said:
No you cannot ask the dealers name. It is immaterial in any case as the OP seems to have accepted the van as it is , faults and all.
Damian
Moderator
Sorry Graham, but forum rules prohibit naming and shaming.
However in this case it seems to be a catalogue of failures from the very start.
Firstly the van should never have left the factory, so it tends to prove that there is absolutely no quality control going on , which is what we already know anyway, but this has proven it.
Secondly, the faults should have been picked up on the PDI by the dealer, but despite the customer paying a not inconsiderable amount for the PDI, it patently has not been done, which is fraud in the real world.
Lastly the customer has the biggest hammer ever in the Consumer Rights Act with which to inflict massive damage to both dealer and manufacturer, but has chosen not to use it.
However in this case it seems to be a catalogue of failures from the very start.
Firstly the van should never have left the factory, so it tends to prove that there is absolutely no quality control going on , which is what we already know anyway, but this has proven it.
Secondly, the faults should have been picked up on the PDI by the dealer, but despite the customer paying a not inconsiderable amount for the PDI, it patently has not been done, which is fraud in the real world.
Lastly the customer has the biggest hammer ever in the Consumer Rights Act with which to inflict massive damage to both dealer and manufacturer, but has chosen not to use it.
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