New EU law as of Feb 2011

[Steve L]

As of Feb 2011 all cars and vans built will have to be fitted with a device that activates dipped beam headlights automatically when the engine is started. This is to bring Britain in line with the rest of Europe and apparently make our roads safer. However, cars built prior to that date will not need and retrospective fitting of a system to operate their headlights.

To me it seems quite pointless as the affect of this legislation won't be seen for about 10 years. This is about the average age of cars on UK roads.
I do appreciate that some ddrivers will and probably already do use headlights in poor visability, but the minority who now drive on side lights or no lights in fog and rain will still be there as an accident waiting to happen!

I wonder if the police will now shift their pet hate of front fog lights on to campaigning about side light drivers.

Quite a few cars Laguna, Peugeot 206, VW Golf, VW passat, Mondeo's to name a few, have their indicatior lights so close to the headlight that they may very well obscure a flashing indicator light, thus opening the debate as to their real effectiveness. On the other hand front fog lights are in the majority sited well away from indicator lights.

So let's see what everyone has to say on the subject.

 

[emmerson]

Steve I agree with your remark re indicators too close to headlamps, but this is already a problem with lots of cars, as you said, so new legislation won't make any difference.Automatic headlamps is a law which should have been passed years ago, to prevent idiots driving on what should be called PARKING lights, so in that regard, better late than never, I suppose.
I've always believed that if you need lights, then you need dipped headlights, and if I were a policeman, I'd find a reason to book drivers who don't use them.
Now, about these stupid, incompetent,brain-dead idiots who use rear foglights when not neccesary------------!!!!
(smug face) Of course my Volvo is already so equipped, and on my Range Rover, dipped headlights come on with ignition and PARKING lights! (smug face)

 

[ProfAlGoogle]

Would love to reply, but would be a waste of my time and effort to see it removed to the bin as in my last replys.

 

[Parksy]

Would love to reply, but would be a waste of my time and effort to see it removed to the bin as in my last replys.

If your reply was going to consist of holding others to account with what might have been seen as internet bullying then perhaps it's just as well that you haven't bothered this time.
The entire topic added nothing of any value to this forum and when it degenerated into personal attacks I removed the topic.

 

[drsorento]

As I understand it new cars and light vans will have dedicated day running lights not necessarly dipped headlights. These have been on the Audi range for the past few months now in preparation for the new directive from our old friends in Brussels.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Not withstanding the issue of current cars being driven without lights in poor conditions which is down to driver education, the matter of the proximity of indicators and headlights, I agree could be better, but personally I have not had a problem with these oncoming cars yet and you would expect the difficulty you mention to be worse at night where the relative contrast would be greater.

Also the majority of cars sold in the UK have near equivalent models sold into markets where the automatic lights are already compulsory, so the issue must surely arisen in those markets – Has it been a problem?

 

[TheTravellingRooster]

Hi to you all out there.The issue itself is only the tip of the Iceberg of Constrution & Use & Homologation Issues. Which think tanks agreed to the positioning of High Intensity Rear Fog Guard Lights in close proximity to brakelights & indicators.In the old days when they were mounted under the rear bumpers they were just as affective when angled slightly down,they did not mask any other lights and when drivers left them on for days after the fog had cleared atleast they were not burning your eyes at traffic lights and in slow moving traffic conditions.

 

[ChrisUK]

As I understand it new cars and light vans will have dedicated day running lights not necessarly dipped headlights. These have been on the Audi range for the past few months now in preparation for the new directive from our old friends in Brussels.

From what I have observed you are correct and it is not dipped headlights that are being used. The manufacturers seem to be competing on who can produce the most fancy high intensity LED array.
My 1984 volvo 240 had 25watt day running lamps so nothing is new.

 

[ProfAlGoogle]

Parksy

Certainly not a personal attack just a straightforward observation of varying information that continually conflicted with the posters original question .
I'm sorry but I do not suffer fools gladly, we are all capable of a little exaggeration, but there comes a point when totally stupidity needs to be addressed, otherwise it makes these forums a complete waste of of everyones time.

Allan.

 

[Parksy]

Well that's me told!

All forum members are reminded of the rules governing the use of this forum, particularly rules 2 and 3, which can be seen at the foot of the forum page or Here

 

[Steve L]

I for one aplaude Parksy's dedication and fairness as a moderator and a fellow caravanner. He's pulled me up before now and rightly so when I've stepped over the boundry.
But I will say that had the idividuals concerned of read the material fully they would of realised I had little more than a training, supervising and showing role unless there was anything I could do by air ratchet or battery drill. Perhaps if they had been trained by a sabre soldier, they might of had a healthy respect and determination of life and respect for others.

I'll say no more on the deteted subject nor comment further on it!

Now on to my comment on this topic.

 

[Steve L]

I agree, Audi and BMW appear to be locked in LED wars on the front of their cars.
However LED's are perhaps a good option to retro fit to most cars, if that satisfies the EU regulations and also if it satisfies our own interplod. Years ago when I was involved in the custom car sceene you were hounded by plod for daring to be different with the way your car looked.

Automatic dipping lights while I supose, a reasonable safety feature or toy on a new car, being followed along an undulating country lene are a nightmare. At every opportunity, they revert to main beam thus playing dazzle games with the driver in front. That's why I couldn't realy see why cars fitted with small front "poor visability" lights or white fog lights to the rest of us, were deemed as dazzling other motorists. The light pattern is predominately aimed at the first 3mtrs in front of the car and also spread wide and low to find curb or grass verges. Furthermore being 55W bulbs they were lower intensity than 80/100W bulbs or Zeon headlights let alone those supposed 50% brighter ice white bulbs.

It's correct that Volvo had 25W driving lights and they replaced the old sidelight on their cars. Side lights have realy no purpose other than night parking lights these days.

I would like to see hamologation of all cars by making a retro fit kit obligatory for all vehicles that have to be MOT'd. Now that would take time to implement but, I don't see the point in only some vehicles complying while others go by the wayside.

One example of this I saw the other day. It was a fairly new Jaguar XF displaying a private number plate of (example ABC 123 B). As the plate was a 1964 year plate is was quite appropriate to use silver polished letters on a black plate, but as the XF was a 2007 year manufactured vehicle, which law is correct? Registration year or manufactured year? You see this is quite open to individual police interpretation.

 

[ProfAlGoogle]

I wish there was a button on here you could use to get rid of fantasy content!

along the lines of a spell checker, but in fairness some of these posts on here do bring a smile to my face, and that can only be a good thing in these times of doom n gloom.
b t w, Volvo used 21w lamps for there day time running lights, the same bayonet lamp you will find in indicator and brake lights, and who can remember the dim dip headlights of the 70s?

Allan.

 

[Surfer]

At the moment a few cars have daytime running lights and as a result they are noticed. When all cars are the same they then become part of the scenery and will no longer stand out and we will be back to the same accident rate! It is not lights that are required, it is driver education!

 

[OmOnWeelz]

New EU law, tells you automatically that it's going to COST us more

We did three caravan holidays to France with a 940 Volvo with permanently on daytime lights. Two 6 week stints in Brittany and 6 weeks in the Vendee. we must have been flashed a million times by French drivers seeing us with lights on in daylight hours. Everyones lights on or everyones off or we'll have dim nutters flashing us all day long when more cars start running with daytime lights

 

[602]

Hi,
Presumably, the purpose of this new law is so that your car can be seen, when it is moving (or about to move). Using headlamps in even poor visibility is unlikely to help you see where you are going. Therefore, what is required is a big bright lamp without a beam that can dazzle .... perhaps a 150mm dia lens, with a 21W bulb behind frosted glass.
I have met the following scenario on more than one occasion. You are driving down a narrow country road, at night, when you meet an oncoming car. Being a well brought-up, polite, sort of person, you immediately volunteer to reverse back for however far it takes. You switch your head lamps off, and start reversing. The oncoming driver recognises this as a sign that you are some sort of loser. They keep their headlamps on, probably on full beam, and follow you down the lane, maintaining a heathy one metre gap. Their headlamps totally wipe out any view through your rear window, so you have to reverse using your wing mirrors. As you alternate your eyes from one mirror to the other, their headlamps destroy any night vision that you might have.
If you are unable to switch your headlamps off, you have the choice of driving blind (ie- carelessly), or not driving at all. Why should Volvo drivers always hold the "high ground".
I believe the current law is that you should switch off your headlamps when stationary.
602

 

[602]

PS...... how do you flash your headlamps when they are already on?

602

 

[MichaelE]

Audi have had the led's intergrated in their headlights for the last 2 years, it started with the R8 then filtered down,but you can switch them off.
I dont think as of yet BMW use front led's and stick to their angel eyes as daytime running lights.
I do think its a good idea as on motorbikes they have been standard for a few years now,suely making your vehicle more visible is a good idea?
Led's look better than the dipped headlights which VW seem to be using.

 

[Steve L]

Driver education!
There's a funny one. The people who need educating to engage their brains before driving a car quite often fall into the couldn't give a sh**, or have their heads already engaged in their posteria.

It should be basic common sense that everyone uses headlights in fog, Rain, or Snow but they don't. You'd of thought that the twilight drive to and from work would also require a light or two. But if you dare to dodge in front or appear to jump aque by using the right hand lane, they certainly know what hand signals to dish out

It reminds me of a joke I once heard :-

Noddy came home from school in tears.
His dad said "what's up son?"
Noddy replied, "they're bullying me at school, they keep calling me side light."
Dad replied "that's ok son, your too dim to be a headlight".

 

[Dustydog]

More Brussels garbage.
Anyone who has ever riden a motorcycle will know the art of survival is knowing in advance you have been seen by the driver of the car that's going to hit you.
When I had my first motorcycle in the 60's most cars struggled to reach 70mph. I always rode with the headlight on. Today cars are much faster.
Now with everyone driving on lights most motorcycles will no longer stand out from the crowd!!

This means those brainiac boffins in Brussels will have to invent some other means to make us motorcyclists more visible.

 

[Steve L]

Hi Dusty.
E-mail the sprouts and suggest every motorcyclist has a bright pink flashing beacon fitted to their helmit as standard

Just kidding m8. But I do see your point.

Now had every car manufcturer followed Volvo's lead and used a standard bayonet cap bulb fitting for their sidelights, changing over to running lights would be simples. Just fit a 21w indicator bulb instead of the dim 5w sidelight bulb. So until the bulb manufacturers cotton on to the idea we are snookered.

I think using 21w bulbs where the sidelight is built into the headlight would satisfy 602's suggestion which is valid. However, BMW only came up with the angel light idea to get round drivers being nicked for using front fog lights. Had any motor manufacturer adopted and improved the steering dipped beam headlights on the Citerone DS21 then that could of revolutionised driving in the dark.

As for having to do a permanent wiring job, that is down to plod to educate and rewire the thinking ability of the nut behind the wheel who drives without lights.

One other thing worries me is how much loading electronically we can put onto existing car relays, switches etc, before we encounter reliability issues. My Rover 75 already uses a relay unit for the caravan lights and a small plc circuit board to avoid overloading the car's system when towing the caravan. I have an extra eight 5w bulbs on just with the car's road lights on. Add two 21w rear fog lights to that and there's 82w of extra light power on the go.

 

[Surfer]

I hate drivers that use those ultra bright white lights that blind you even when on dip! This is closely followed by those wih the blue coloured type lights!

 

[Willi-Wonti]

I have retro fitted the Ring LED day running lights to mycar BRL0397 http://www.speeding.co.uk/acatalog/Aurora_Day_Light_Running_Lamp_.html
Only three wires to connect
Red to + on battery
Black to - on battery
Yellow to sidelight +
They come ready connected to a relay so light up when the engine is turned on. Go off when the side lights are turned on.
I have used them through UK, France, Belgium, Luxembourg, Germany & Switzerland. with no problem of any one flashing me

 

[Steve L]

Had a deco at the web page WW and they look a fine retro fit product.
I'm considering fitting a LED light strip around the foglight grille area on my Rover 75. Because of the design of the front of the car, fitting any additional lighting tidy is difficult. Now as they would be running lights and not fog lights I guess the interplod will turn a blind eye.

I got stopped once in my Mk1 Laguna for having the white poor visability lights on as well as my dipped headlights. Now as these lights didn't shine any further forward than the dipped headlight, but put a spread of light closer and a little wider I thought it was ok in a street where the streetlights had failed. I also thought that fog lights were a yellow beam of light. At least that was how EU regulations describe lights below the headlights.

Obviously, I complied with the officers "pet hate" as he called it and turned off my poor visability lights. But this new legislation does open the can of worms of people using lights other than headlights during daytime. I've already seen a marked increase in the number of pre 2010 reg cars using their white additional lights.

Below is the Department of transport info sheets. Read and enjoy.
http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/vehicles/vssafety/info-runninglights.pdf

 

[ChrisUK]

I'm surprised how bright these new day running LED lights are, but then I think it is now possible to get LED headlights. We are close to all lights, even in the home, being LED.
My Xtrail has very dim parking lights and very bright HID headlights. LED running lights would be a good compromise, I assume that the current ones must have them.