New EU rules to create further delays

[Buckman]

Imposed by EU and not individual member states. See https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...-next-year-under-new-eu-entry-rules-cvplqgfgp

 

[Woodentop]

Would be more interesting if the majority of the item was not behind a paywall!

 

[otherclive]

Not too different to what we have had to live with if going to the USA. The new documents last for a while and aren’t expensive. Even going via France pre pandemic the French border staff in Dover or Tunnel checked everyone’s passports. So they can check these documents in parallel plus like in air travel the ferry or tunnel check in staff could do it just like they did in Dunkerque for our dogs. The new documents if online could be relatively easily be incorporated into the final ferry/ tunnel documents. So they know you have them valid for your arrival at the port or tunnel. After all at Calais tunnel the large signs welcome you by name just by ANPR as you enter the complex.

It headline grabbing again. We are now a “ third country” so have to come to terms with the hassle and restrictions that other non EU members have to deal with.

 

[Buckman]

Would be more interesting if the majority of the item was not behind a paywall!

TBH I did not want to post the link to the Daily Express. See HERE. In one way it is a good thing, but on the other hand there will be huge delays at ferry terminals while they fingerprint and take a photo as more than likely more than one person in a car.
I can see people getting very annoyed as they will not have any food with them and hunger can be a flashpoint for some people. Plus cars with engines running if the weather is cool. All amounts to chaos.
Fingerprints cannot be done Online so that is ruled out and UK police charge for fingerprints to be taken and it is not cheap.
Either way it is going to be interesting when it does come in to force.

https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/p...s-and-visa/smart-borders/entry-exit-system_en

 

[Buckman]

Not too different to what we have had to live with if going to the USA. The new documents last for a while and aren’t expensive. Even going via France pre pandemic the French border staff in Dover or Tunnel checked everyone’s passports. So they can check these documents in parallel plus like in air travel the ferry or tunnel check in staff could do it just like they did in Dunkerque for our dogs. The new documents if online could be relatively easily be incorporated into the final ferry/ tunnel documents. So they know you have them valid for your arrival at the port or tunnel. After all at Calais tunnel the large signs welcome you by name just by ANPR as you enter the complex.

It headline grabbing again. We are now a “ third country” so have to come to terms with the hassle and restrictions that other non EU members have to deal with.

I am guessing that you arrived by plane in the US and were on foot?

 

[otherclive]

Imposed by EU and not member states. See https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...-next-year-under-new-eu-entry-rules-cvplqgfgp

Member states comprise the EU and would have voted to incorporate new border controls.

Heres a summary of the areas of responsibility in the EU

https://ec.europa.eu/info/about-eur...ropean-commission-does/law/areas-eu-action_en

 

[Buckman]

Member states comprise the EU and would have voted to incorporate new border controls.

Apologies for leaving out "individual" before member states. I have corrected it now.

 

[otherclive]

I am guessing that you arrived by plane in the US and were on foot?

I really cannot see any fundament difference. All of these documents are on line within the database so it doesn’t matter whether you arrive by plane, ferry or tunnel. What makes the difference vis the efficiency with which the immigration staff process the inbound passengers. Like Heathrow so very efficient that 3-4 hours queues for non U.K. passport holder can be the norm. And on a bad day even UK passport holders are subject to delays at “ the border”.

 

[Woodentop]

Here is the detail albeit from an organisation that may have an axe to grind. Nonetheless it makes interesting - and very scary - reading!

New EU rules

 

[otherclive]

TBH I did not want to post the link to the Daily Express. See HERE. In one way it is a good thing, but on the other hand there will be huge delays at ferry terminals while they fingerprint and take a photo as more than likely more than one person in a car.
I can see people getting very annoyed as they will not have any food with them and hunger can be a flashpoint for some people. Plus cars with engines running if the weather is cool. All amounts to chaos.
Fingerprints cannot be done Online so that is ruled out and UK police charge for fingerprints to be taken and it is not cheap.
Either way it is going to be interesting when it does come in to force.

https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/p...s-and-visa/smart-borders/entry-exit-system_en

Funny my IPhone identified my fingerprints without resource to the police. My visa to India and Bhutan required fingerprint which did cause some amusement given bits of the right hand is missing, lost in Cardiff steelworks.

Is this the scheme causing angst? Or has it been changed? It was approved by a vote in the European Parliament and the European Council that authorised the EC to proceed. All very democratic.

https://www.etiasvisa.com/

 

[otherclive]

Here is the detail albeit from an organisation that may have an axe to grind. Nonetheless it makes interesting - and very scary - reading!

New EU rules

That link is now two years old. The latest from the official ETIAS website and Schengen site emphasise that biometric data such as fingerprints will not be collected. It’s already on your passport.

ETIASVisa

ETIAS stands for European Travel Information and Authorization System. The ETIAS visa waiver will be available to all visa-exempt visitors.

www.etiasvisa.com

https://www.schengenvisas.com/etias-european-travel-information-and-authorisation-system/

 

[Buckman]

The concern is if 2 or more ferries arrive at approximately the same time and all are filled by cars, MH and HGV there is no way that you will be leaving the dock area soon unlike an airport where people are easier to process. However many people does the average cross channel convey plus there will be the off loading of vehicles.
it is a good scheme and one that is needed, but could cause issue with ferries and Eurotrain. Also means employing a load of extra people to process documentation especially on ferries.

BTW I am just passing on what could be useful information so please don't shoot the messenger.

 

[otherclive]

The concern is if 2 or more ferries arrive at approximately the same time and all are filled by cars, MH and HGV there is no way that you will be leaving the dock area soon unlike an airport where people are easier to process. However many people does the average cross channel convey plus there will be the off loading of vehicles.
it is a good scheme and one that is needed, but could cause issue with ferries and Eurotrain. Also means employing a load of extra people to process documentation especially on ferries.

BTW I am just passing on what could be useful information so please don't shoot the messenger.

Those in the queues at Heathrow may not echo your sentiments. But it will be interesting to see how the EU ETIAS and EES develop in parallel but summer 2022 sees the initial roll out. Full implementation is scheduled for 2023.

 

[Buckman]

In addition we wil have ETIAS (E.U. Travel Information and Authorisation System) looks like being in force from 2023, you apply online, it's valid for 3 years, and apparently people under 18 or over 70 won't have to pay the £7 fee, every little helps! More info HERE

BTW they only used 4 ports for the pilot scheme. Helsinki (FI) | Piraeus (EL) | Genoa (IT) I don't think any of these ports are excessively busy like Calais and Caen, but I may be mistaken.

 

[otherclive]

In addition we wil have ETIAS (E.U. Travel Information and Authorisation System) looks like being in force from 2023, you apply online, it's valid for 3 years, and apparently people under 18 or over 70 won't have to pay the £7 fee, every little helps! More info HERE

BTW they only used 4 ports for the pilot scheme. Helsinki (FI) | Piraeus (EL) | Genoa (IT) I don't think any of these ports are excessively busy like Calais and Caen, but I may be mistaken.

If you read some of the links I have posted you will see that ETIAS subsumed EES and most travellers won’t see any difference when ETIAS is fully rolled out. I always find it best to go to the official websites for the respective travel authorisation systems rather than rely on the media. #10 and#11.

 

[Buckman]

If you read some of the links I have posted you will see that ETIAS subsumed EES and most travellers won’t see any difference when ETIAS is fully rolled out. I always find it best to go to the official websites for the respective travel authorisation systems rather than rely on the media. #10 and#11.

I thought the ETIAS link #14 I posted was to the official site? Likewise the link in #4 to the EES I posted earlier.
If these are not official sites could you perhaps post the correct links? Thanks.

 

[otherclive]

They are all giving ostensibly the same information, but here is the official EU page for EITAS and EES from which you can start your trawl.

Two trials in Iceland captured biometric data in one second for arrivals. Genoa dealt with the passengers from cruise liners, some airlines are trialling tablets for data capture , both in the air and before boarding. So it’s quite clear that actions are in place to develop the most suitable means of biometric capture relevant to the mode of travel. And the biometric data doesn’t have to be captured each trip it is valid for a period. In fact e- border checks will take no longer to capture data than to check it on subsequent trips.

https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/p...an-travel-information-authorisation-system_en


https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/p...s-and-visa/smart-borders/entry-exit-system_en

 

[Buckman]

Each person that is in vehicle needs to be photographed and fingerprints recorded which will probably mean getting out of the vehicle so instead of seconds for someone who is walking we are now looking at two or more minutes per person.
However even at 30 seconds per person and if the ferry is only half full with up to 1000 people that is a lot of time to wait to be processed. Many ferries can carry 2000 plus passengers and over 500 cars.

 

[otherclive]

Each person that is in vehicle needs to be photographed and fingerprints recorded which will probably mean getting out of the vehicle so instead of seconds for someone who is walking we are now looking at two or more minutes per person.
However even at 30 seconds per person and if the ferry is only half full with up to 1000 people that is a lot of time to wait to be processed. Many ferries can carry 2000 plus passengers and over 500 cars.

Well the cars aren’t biometrically checked 😊, but cruise liners carry as many passengers or more and in some destinations 3-4 can turn up in a day. So the problem has to be solved not just for UK but for other third country nations as well. Presumably now that we have control of our borders we will be implementing something similar. Oh crikey better stay on home vacations for another two or more years.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I really wonder why such news is causing such a stir.

After all we voted to leave the EU, and that's what we have done.

Any one who held teh belief that our access to the EU countries would be no different has been living in cloud cuckoo land.

So if you want to visit a foreign country you have to be prepared to deal with all the border requirements of teh country you are visiting.

Being British makes no difference.

 

[Johnb]

My visa to India and Bhutan required fingerprint which did cause some amusement given bits of the right hand is missing, lost in Cardiff steelworks.

Had to smile as I read India as a travel destination.

My wife and I nearly gave up our visit some years ago because of the process of getting visas. Not only expensive (I seem to remember around £80 each (it's now £110 for a Tourist Visa) but tortuous paper trail through extensive forms that took quite some time to negotiate. In fact a number of organisations actually advertise their services to complete all documentation for India - at a price of course.

Travel, in our case to Manchester, to submit forms in person and so on, and witnessing quite a few people being refused for some omission I suspect. Passport type photos of an unusual size for example (they did provide photo booths which must be "gold mines".

I'm sure those who voted for Brexit will have no issues with the "tiny" amount of bureaucracy required to travel to the EU. And after all we are travelling for holidays and not for our work - it doesn't involve massive amounts of paper work every week. We are not exporting or importing - just taking a holiday abroad! We are, as reminded above, visiting a foreign country. Just be grateful it's not India.

 

[Parksy]

I really wonder why such news is causing such a stir.

After all we voted to leave the EU, and that's what we have done.

I don't think that this news is causing a stir except in the fevered imaginations of some tabloid newspaper editors who are desperate to sell their product.

 

[otherclive]

Had to smile as I read India as a travel destination.

My wife and I nearly gave up our visit some years ago because of the process of getting visas. Not only expensive (I seem to remember around £80 each (it's now £110 for a Tourist Visa) but tortuous paper trail through extensive forms that took quite some time to negotiate. In fact a number of organisations actually advertise their services to complete all documentation for India - at a price of course.

Travel, in our case to Manchester, to submit forms in person and so on, and witnessing quite a few people being refused for some omission I suspect. Passport type photos of an unusual size for example (they did provide photo booths which must be "gold mines".

I'm sure those who voted for Brexit will have no issues with the "tiny" amount of bureaucracy required to travel to the EU. And after all we are travelling for holidays and not for our work - it doesn't involve massive amounts of paper work every week. We are not exporting or importing - just taking a holiday abroad! We are, as reminded above, visiting a foreign country. Just be grateful it's not India.

My first Indian visa in 1999 required so much paperwork and was pre internet. Others in the period 2010-17 were a combination of online and personal attendance. The websites has difficulty with Safari so it had to be Chrome. Nightmare and as you say expensive too, and it’s a new one each visit. The fingerprints were for my last one where I opted for the “ rapid” E gate in Kolkata. Well that was a contradiction in terms. Not much “E” and not rapid and when I couldn’t physically present a conventional set up for the fingerprints they eventually directed me to the front of the queue for a conventional passport and visa check. But the inconvenience was worth it and soon forgotten when we left the airport behind.

But entering back into India from Bhutan by a land crossing took ages due to a party of American motorcycle overlanders .

 

[Lutz]

I recall that some years ago on a ferry crossing from where to where I can't remember, only the driver was allowed to drive through passport control. All the other occupants of the car were treated as foot passengers and had to go through immigration as such. I could imagine that sort of thing could be implemented here to reduce the queues of cars on arrival at the port of entry.

 

[Buckman]

I recall that some years ago on a ferry crossing from where to where I can't remember, only the driver was allowed to drive through passport control. All the other occupants of the car were treated as foot passengers and had to go through immigration as such. I could imagine that sort of thing could be implemented here to reduce the queues of cars on arrival at the port of entry.

Good idea but wouldn't cars still need to park up to wait for the foot passengers? I think the idea is great and hope the UK does the same, but not in retaliation. Obviously will not stop people crossing borders, but if they are involved in any criminal activity it may be easier to catch them.