New Oldie

[birdingbilly]

Hello all
My wife an I are approaching retirement (early retirement and young at heart). We have for some time been considering buying a caravan with a view to touring Britain and mainland Europe. I envisage we would take trips ranging from a few days up to a few months, we are keen birdwatchers so that will form a key aspect of our trips.
I last caranvanned about 30 years ago in a Sprite caravan that had gas lighting, a gas heater, no running hot water, no shower, a toilet akin to a bucket and cold water pumped by jumping up and down on a black rubber blog on the floor ! I suspect things have changed a little so have a few questions that I hoped you kind people may be able to help with (aopologies if many of these questions are rather naive !).
I envisage we will go for a large single axle caravan, 18ft or so looks to be about the mark and weight for our car.

Layouts - To fixed bed or not to fixed bed ? I would really like to hear from couples of their experiences and thoughts on a fixed bed layout.
Heating - Caravans now appear to have central heating that is either by blown air or hot water, what are the pros and cons of these systems and are they both capable of running on gas without electricity hook up ?
Hot water - Do the hot water systems store hot water in a tank or is it just produced on demand ? and are the systems truely capable of producing enough hot water for 2 people to shower (not neccessarilly at the same time

)
Toilets - The latest toilets, some of which appear to be electric flush, look like a huge improvement on the old bucket and chuckit variety. Assuming they are used for all purposes by 2 people how often would I expect to have to empty the cassette ?
Movers - These look like a great innovation, are they reliable ? don't they tend to get covered in crud being located as they are slung under the chassis?

Sure to be more questions but as a starter some help on these matters would be much appreciated.

birdingbilly

 

[RogerL]

Go for it Billy, caravanning suits birdwatchers. We take ours all round the UK, including Shetland and Outer Hebrides. The caravan makes an excellent hide as well. Even if you get a light enough caravan to tow with a car, a 4wd is good for birdwatchers as it allows us to get along reserve tracks better (when permitted).

We don't use a fixed bed, can't see the point of side-mounted ones as one of us still has to climb over and single-axle island beds are a bit cramped in the daytime.

Blown air and "wet" heating systems both work on gas and/or mains electric - blown air is cheaper/lighter but some prefer "wet".

The hot water system stores about 10 litres so it's good for a 20 litre shower using the mixer - it's a different technique to home as you need to use much less water - it'll reheat in about 20 mins if you use gas and electric together, longer if only one fuel.

Electric flush is simply a lazy way of pressing a handpump, caravan loos don't flush in the domestic sense - we get 2-3 days from ours - others get less.

The good movers are reliable, Powertouch have a big following.

 

[Dustydog]

Hi Billy
Welcome to the land of the tuggers!
Draw up a list of what is important to you.
Eg Do you want basic or luxury , home from home, or are you happy roughing it?
?re you happy sleeeping on single beds, making up doubles, or do you want the luxury of a fixed bed?
Do you want an all singing dancing bathroom?
Hot water supply is adequate for a splash and dash. SWMBO manages to do her hair with no problem.

What is the maximum towing ability of the car you intend towing with?
Mover wise I only have experience of Truma and Powrtouch and can say both are excellent. An absolute essential with our twin axle. Ok there are some purists who say I don't need one but I don't want a hernia!
Take some time to study the various layouts available.
Caravanning has moved on a lot in 30 years but for us is still a wonderful way to enjoy life.

 

[TD42]

Hello all
My wife an I are approaching retirement (early retirement and young at heart). We have for some time been considering buying a caravan with a view to touring Britain and mainland Europe. I envisage we would take trips ranging from a few days up to a few months, we are keen birdwatchers so that will form a key aspect of our trips.
I last caranvanned about 30 years ago in a Sprite caravan that had gas lighting, a gas heater, no running hot water, no shower, a toilet akin to a bucket and cold water pumped by jumping up and down on a black rubber blog on the floor ! I suspect things have changed a little so have a few questions that I hoped you kind people may be able to help with (aopologies if many of these questions are rather naive !).
I envisage we will go for a large single axle caravan, 18ft or so looks to be about the mark and weight for our car.

Layouts - To fixed bed or not to fixed bed ? I would really like to hear from couples of their experiences and thoughts on a fixed bed layout.
Heating - Caravans now appear to have central heating that is either by blown air or hot water, what are the pros and cons of these systems and are they both capable of running on gas without electricity hook up ?
Hot water - Do the hot water systems store hot water in a tank or is it just produced on demand ? and are the systems truely capable of producing enough hot water for 2 people to shower (not neccessarilly at the same time

)
Toilets - The latest toilets, some of which appear to be electric flush, look like a huge improvement on the old bucket and chuckit variety. Assuming they are used for all purposes by 2 people how often would I expect to have to empty the cassette ?
Movers - These look like a great innovation, are they reliable ? don't they tend to get covered in crud being located as they are slung under the chassis?

Sure to be more questions but as a starter some help on these matters would be much appreciated.

birdingbilly
[/quot
As said by Dustydog,the first thing to consider is what your car can safely/legally tow & what you are happy to tow.
It is recommended by many authorities such as the Caravan club & The Camping & caravan club,that the MAXIMUM fully loaded weight known as the MTPLM of the caravan should be around 85% of the manufactorers Kerbweight of the car. Legaly the caravans loaded weight should not be more than the car manufactorers max tow load & the total car + caravan weight should not exceed the cars maximum train weight.
your next step is to decide on what you want in as much a fixed beds,ect caravan layouts are a personal thing.
I personally think fixed beds take up to much living space in our 23ft caravan.we prefere to use the bench seats as single beds as using any form of double causes problems when going for those midnight comfort trips unless you have an Island bed,but this takes up an awful lot of room.
heating & hot water can be used on either gas or 240v electricityThe hot water boiler holds about 10 ltr of hot water so showering requires a proceedure of a quick soak,soap up & then rinse off turning the shower off between stages.
most folk only use the toilet at night or emergencys.it would need emptying every 2 days approxamatly.
movers are a god send,mine has been on for 5years 7 does not get to crudded up
If you are not on electric hook up an average caravans battery will last about 3-4 days with no tv & used carefully

 

[birdingbilly]

Thanks for the replies so far. We will be towing with a Freelander 2 so have reasonably flexibility in terms of caravans, I believe the Freelander has a kerbside weight in excess of 1,800kgs and obviously when loaded somewhat higher than that. Although not advisable but I believe it is capble of towing in excess of 2 tonnes.That said i dont plan on letting the car drive the choice of caravan if you take my meaning, if necessarilly i would step to a Discovery if thats what is required.

Roughing it is not part of the plan, been there done that ! If we go ahead we will be looking for a fully equiped caravan and certainly one that allows for a good degree of self sufficiency, so yes a fully equiped bathroom is a requirement.

Birdingbilly

 

[kelvin3]

You will get a variety of answers to such open and wide questions because we are all different, so here is my 2p.

There is just me and she now so we looked at what we wanted and considered the kids after.

End bathroom a must (separate loo, shower and basin) (we get 3 showers directly after each other and the loo lasts for 2 to 3 days, unless ‘she gets the trotts and then it’s every day, not a happy couple of days was that LOL) (I’m 6’1”, 15.5st and I can shower me!)
Central heating (big woosie or protection of my ears from ‘she’, take your pick)
Max 1300 laden to suite car
Full cooker (she likes me to cook)
2, 3 or 4 birth (settled for 2)
In good condition and that we both liked it

Oh! And an awning to fit the kids in because they ‘want to be with us’ (can’t get rid of the bu**ers, but who’s moaning)

The rest to us were wants not needs, so they made no difference!

1997, Abbey Caprice, Top Hat Special, Based around a Dorset (in other words it has two go faster stripes down the side)

 

[Robtel]

a Sprite caravan that had gas lighting, a gas heater, no running hot water, no shower, a toilet akin to a bucket and cold water pumped by jumping up and down on a black rubber blog on the floor !
birdingbilly

Ahh, those were the days!, I remember them well.
Yes, it's definitely changed thank goodness.
Just much the same as others have already said. Establish what weight of caravan you can safely tow, have a good look around at different lay outs and see what layout you think suits you best. Will you be using mains hook up or visiting sites where you will depend on battery power?
Fixed bed or not - personally for me,it's a definite yes, but will admit you do lose a bit of space during daytime.
Heating - both blown air and wet can be used with electric or gas (or combination of both) but will need battery power for pump or fan if not on mains. My current caravan is the first I've had with the alde (wet) heating and I feel it is much better than the blown air.
Toilet - the flush is more of a "rinse", frequency of emptying? depend if you use your own facilities only or a bit of both site and own, every two or three days on average.
Movers - I'm a convert, wouldn't like to be without one, Powrtouch for me.

Anything else, please ask. Always someone to give answers.
Robert

 

[Dustydog]

a Sprite caravan that had gas lighting, a gas heater, no running hot water, no shower, a toilet akin to a bucket and cold water pumped by jumping up and down on a black rubber blog on the floor !
birdingbilly

Ahh, those were the days!, I remember them well.
Yes, it's definitely changed thank goodness.
Just much the same as others have already said. Establish what weight of caravan you can safely tow, have a good look around at different lay outs and see what layout you think suits you best. Will you be using mains hook up or visiting sites where you will depend on battery power?
Fixed bed or not - personally for me,it's a definite yes, but will admit you do lose a bit of space during daytime.
Heating - both blown air and wet can be used with electric or gas (or combination of both) but will need battery power for pump or fan if not on mains. My current caravan is the first I've had with the alde (wet) heating and I feel it is much better than the blown air.
Toilet - the flush is more of a "rinse", frequency of emptying? depend if you use your own facilities only or a bit of both site and own, every two or three days on average.
Movers - I'm a convert, wouldn't like to be without one, Powrtouch for me.

Anything else, please ask. Always someone to give answers.
Robert

Rob
My old mucker
You too appear to have gone soft and like me and SWMBO enjoy your creature comforts. On that note as a convert to a fixed bed and the life of total comfort I shall be honoured if you would accept a knighthood to the Knights of the Woosie Table.

 

[Ancientcaravanner]

Start as suggested and work out the weight you can tow and what you are prepared to spend, Next take a look at the 18ft layouts (including the new twin bed models) and decide what suits you in your price range. The concensus of opinion seems to be that the central heating is better - but it is only in the top of the range vans which cost more.
The hot water systems will produce enough water for two to shower if you wet yourself down - switch off the shower and wash and then switch it on to rinse yourself off. Most people recommend heating the water with gas during this period to get a rapid reheat of the water. I would recommend two water barrels if you don't have an onboard tank as this will allow a rapid change over if one empties during a shower.
The toilet will last two to three days but personally I would empty it daily before it gets to heavy to handle easily.
Mowers - in my opinion essential as we get older and makes finally pitching/manoeuvring the van so much easier and saves the pushing and groaning.

 

[Ancientcaravanner]

ooops double entry.

 

[Robtel]

Rob
My old mucker
You too appear to have gone soft and like me and SWMBO enjoy your creature comforts. On that note as a convert to a fixed bed and the life of total comfort I shall be honoured if you would accept a knighthood to the Knights of the Woosie Table.

Definitely a fan of creature comforts, that I can't deny. A knighthood??!!! wow!! yes please! Sir Rob has a definite ring to it. You are too kind.

 

[Gagakev]

Hi Billy welcome back to the wonderful world of vanning.
As others have said it really is a matter of personal choice, go along to all the dealers in your area and spend some time in there vans.
We would not be without a fixed bed, mind you we have a six birth van and at 23' single axle (26' with bar) we find with the side dinette as well there is plenty of room. Some say the beds take up to much room, but if I'm honest who wants to spend all day in there van????? our van is used for cooking, sleeping and washing the rest of the time we are either out sight seeing or if we stay on site we sit in the awning. And the bed is made up ready after a few drinks or two or three---------------------------or more
We are middle aged and take daughter and grandson 50% of the time.

 

[SirRogerFFS]

Hi Billy welcome back.
As you can see there have been plenty of changes as time has gone by.
My wife and I spent hours looking around different vans until she came accross the layout she wanted and fixed bed is one of them sadly some times can be awkward but have never let it bother us .
There are some very nice single axle vans out there with a layout that will be right for you,so have a good look around and find the best deal and also get the best from your dealer .Not knowing your budget but most dealers should give you all the essntials you need ie steps, water carrier, waiste water carrier and battery,some dealers will even throw in anawning.
Good luck and let us know how things progresss
Sir Roger

 

[RayS]

I think mst of yor questions have been answered, but I would suggest careful consideration of a fixed bed if you are planning trip of more than a few weeks. Making up the day seats each night is ok for a while but palls after a month or so. Although I've found they make up a comfortable bed once you work out how to get the cushions arranged, none I have had have been a patch on our present fixed bed 'van.
Yes you can get two showers from the standard heater without too much trouble. If you can leave the power (gas and or electic) on the warm-up time is very rapid. A bigger problem may be the capacity of the waste water container - probably needs to be empty to start with.
Toilet 'life' depends on the model - the older bench seat type have bigger capacity waste tanks than the newer convential loo type units. Toilet fluid may be difficult to find in some places - most natives use the site facilities - so we normally take enough for the trip allowing i refill for every two days (and a few to spare). The space and weight these occupy outbound can be used for wine homebound 1
Also be aware that many continental sites have limited capacity electrical supplies - 6 amps being not uncommon - so normal UK domestic appliances may not work - e.g. 3 kw kettles and toasters. Continental pitches can be smaller than club sites in the UK, so I would consider a shipping length maximum of about 7.5m and ideally single axle. A mover is very strongly recommended - not only to avoid injury, but again some continental sites have hedged pitches with narrow entries and the site roads can be quite narrow - without a mover pitching can be a problem. I'm a big fan of Powrtouch since their very early days, but you'll find plenty of views elsewhere in this forum.
If not a member suggest you join Caravan Club or Cc&C for European insurance cover and ferry bookings etc. Over the last few years there has been a noticable increase in enforcement of rules and to avoid spot fines you need to be aware of these e.g. the requirement for marker plates an any outfit longer in total (car+van) than 12m. and also the speed rules in France. These are well documented on CC site and perhaps on the other one.
Spain has a great variety for bird watching. While not being a devotee, we enjoy the hoopoes, egrets, and bee-eaters on our usual site in the south east, and storks and the big birds of prey in northern Spain.
Another thing to consider is your gas useage abroad. You cannot exchange Calor bottles outside UK, and the generally available Camping Gaz is very expensive, so it's probably best to start a long trip with two full Calors and use the electricity where you can. A very popular addition to the kit is a toaster oven (Lidls) which is only 1 kw and will / does cook very well. Microwave also useful, and some swear by the Ramoska, but it's all space and weight.