Has anybody else had problems with the new style regulator,the problem with mine is lack of pressure i thought the bottle was empty but even when i put a full bottle on it got no better is this a common problem, is there a cure or is it a new regulator?
New style gas regulators
- Thread starter Marko96
- Start date
There can be a problem with the pipes detiorating and closing up, contact who ever supplied your van, if a second hand van contact the manufacturer.
Hello Mark,
I do not know your exact circumstances, but I do wonder if you are experiencing low gas pressure because of the weather we are having.
The pressure inside the bottle is related to the ambient temperature of the bottle, and as the temperature falls so does the internal pressure.
Butane gas bottles become ineffective below about 4C, where as Propane will work down to about -40C.
In general winter caravaners will use Propane.
Perhaps you need to switch.
I do not know your exact circumstances, but I do wonder if you are experiencing low gas pressure because of the weather we are having.
The pressure inside the bottle is related to the ambient temperature of the bottle, and as the temperature falls so does the internal pressure.
Butane gas bottles become ineffective below about 4C, where as Propane will work down to about -40C.
In general winter caravaners will use Propane.
Perhaps you need to switch.
mark i had the same problem with my 2006 elddis ,it turned out to be the pigtail hose ( some seem to have a ball and spring valve in them and some don,t its held in by a allen grub screw) i took the hose off and tried blowing through it !! nothing !! replaced hose and everything back to normal . have since removed the ball and spring and intend to keep for a spare. jim p.s. new hose had no valve in it ?
I have been using propane as i caravan all year round, i have never had this problem with the old style regulators, so this is progress is it?
Damian
Moderator
Mark, the problem you describe is a very common problem with lots of vans made from 2004 and using the bulkhead mounted regulators.
The problem is usually, but not always, due to the position of the regulator in the gas locker, it should be mounted as high as physically possible, with a 90 degree elbow on the inlet to which the pigtail is attached.
The cause is thought to be the gas becoming liquid as it cools overnight, and being an acidic gas, it leeches out the plasticiser in the pigtail, as a honey coloured sticky substance, and when gas is drawn again, it is sucked into the regulator, especially on low mounted regulators where the pigtail runs downwards to the inlet of the regulator, hence the fitting of th e90 degree elbow to avoid a run into the regulator, and being located high in the locker, allowing the residue to run back into the cylinder, rather than staying in the pipe.
What you need now is a new regulator, new pigtail, 90 degree elbow and the regulator mounting changed.
As the new style regulator is part of the fixed installation this is a job which can only be done by a suitably qualified fitter, as it comes under the Gas regulations.
If your van is less than 2 years old, it is a warranty job, which the dealer should do , and claim back from the van manufacturer.
The problem is usually, but not always, due to the position of the regulator in the gas locker, it should be mounted as high as physically possible, with a 90 degree elbow on the inlet to which the pigtail is attached.
The cause is thought to be the gas becoming liquid as it cools overnight, and being an acidic gas, it leeches out the plasticiser in the pigtail, as a honey coloured sticky substance, and when gas is drawn again, it is sucked into the regulator, especially on low mounted regulators where the pigtail runs downwards to the inlet of the regulator, hence the fitting of th e90 degree elbow to avoid a run into the regulator, and being located high in the locker, allowing the residue to run back into the cylinder, rather than staying in the pipe.
What you need now is a new regulator, new pigtail, 90 degree elbow and the regulator mounting changed.
As the new style regulator is part of the fixed installation this is a job which can only be done by a suitably qualified fitter, as it comes under the Gas regulations.
If your van is less than 2 years old, it is a warranty job, which the dealer should do , and claim back from the van manufacturer.
Damian,
I encountered this problem back in the summer whilst in Spain, luckily a fellow caravanner new a quick fix cure.
Disconnect the regulator and pigtail from the van. Then hold the regulator under the hot tap for a few minutes, so that the water can clean the diaphragm within the regulator (this is the component that gets blocked by the residue from the pigtail), when you are happy with the clean flow of water, then blow through the regulator with a footpump. The same process should be carried out on the pigtail, re-connect the regulator to the bulkhead and re-fit pigtail, then this hopefully will have cured your problem.
I now carry a spare regulator as an emergency measure,
best regards, Martin
PS. If you are not a qualified Gas fitter, then don't forget to wipe your fingerprints off of the regulator.
I encountered this problem back in the summer whilst in Spain, luckily a fellow caravanner new a quick fix cure.
Disconnect the regulator and pigtail from the van. Then hold the regulator under the hot tap for a few minutes, so that the water can clean the diaphragm within the regulator (this is the component that gets blocked by the residue from the pigtail), when you are happy with the clean flow of water, then blow through the regulator with a footpump. The same process should be carried out on the pigtail, re-connect the regulator to the bulkhead and re-fit pigtail, then this hopefully will have cured your problem.
I now carry a spare regulator as an emergency measure,
best regards, Martin
PS. If you are not a qualified Gas fitter, then don't forget to wipe your fingerprints off of the regulator.
Colin.A
I am a time served Toolmaker by trade and am currently employed within the Aerospace Industry (I therefore class myself as a competant engineer), but I beleive that to undertake any work on the Installed Gas System, anywhere past the pigtail, then you must be qualified/experienced in this field (ie. to Corgi standards).
Please feel free to shoot me down if I'm wrong,
best regards, Martin
Damian
Moderator
Del, speaking to Richard at Truma last week about the ongoing problems with gas regulators, he was telling me about a guy with a brand new motorhome, which the customer had specified stainless steel throughout the whole installation, and guess what.....the same thing happened, regulator blocked by the residue.
As regards other replies, washing the regulator is not recommended as it can cause damage to the internal diagphram of the two stage GOK regulator, and as for the pigtail, once attacked by the gas, it will continue to leech out the plasticiser.
The issue of qualified and competent are really just a play on words, both mean, in terms of gas regulations, that the fitter has been checked and approved and certified to work on LPG , it is not a simple case of believing you are competent just because you think you are.
For example, a CORGI registered fitter must be LPG qualified as well to work on LPG, or the fitter must be qualified under the European Registration Scheme (formerly ACOPS)
As regards other replies, washing the regulator is not recommended as it can cause damage to the internal diagphram of the two stage GOK regulator, and as for the pigtail, once attacked by the gas, it will continue to leech out the plasticiser.
The issue of qualified and competent are really just a play on words, both mean, in terms of gas regulations, that the fitter has been checked and approved and certified to work on LPG , it is not a simple case of believing you are competent just because you think you are.
For example, a CORGI registered fitter must be LPG qualified as well to work on LPG, or the fitter must be qualified under the European Registration Scheme (formerly ACOPS)
I raised my valve myself, it was easy. You can buy the pipe and fittings from any plumbing merchants.
Who cares if your allowed or not, its my van, I paid for it.
If you worry about too many regulations nowdays you wouldn't do anything.
Cant rap yourself in cotton wool all the time.
Feel better now!!!
Edd
Who cares if your allowed or not, its my van, I paid for it.
If you worry about too many regulations nowdays you wouldn't do anything.
Cant rap yourself in cotton wool all the time.
Feel better now!!!
Edd
The issue of qualified and competent are really just a play on words, both mean, in terms of gas regulations, that the fitter has been checked and approved and certified to work on LPG , it is not a simple case of believing you are competent just because you think you are.
Not so, to work on caravans you do not have to be a registered gas fitter or electrical engineer as it says competent. If you are not happy to work on same then dont, but if like most engineers electrical or gas you are "Competent" then you can do so. The fact that you will most likely do a better job than some so called registered engineers is a bonus.
Not so, to work on caravans you do not have to be a registered gas fitter or electrical engineer as it says competent. If you are not happy to work on same then dont, but if like most engineers electrical or gas you are "Competent" then you can do so. The fact that you will most likely do a better job than some so called registered engineers is a bonus.
Damian said "The issue of qualified and competent are really just a play on words, both mean, in terms of gas regulations, that the fitter has been checked and approved and certified to work on LPG , it is not a simple case of believing you are competent just because you think you are."
Thanks Damian, can u point me to the relevant part of the gas regulations which says this it would help to solve a long running dispute at my work.
Thanks Damian, can u point me to the relevant part of the gas regulations which says this it would help to solve a long running dispute at my work.
Damian
Moderator
Colin, I will find the relevant part as soon as I can, but the information I have to hand is from a Technical Bulletin issued by the National Caravan Council.
The issue of competent vs qualified:
When I left college, I got a job as a porter working in a busy X-ray department at my local hospital. The department was run by a 'Superintendent Radiographer' who by all the certificates on his office wall was highly qualified. He rarely took x-rays during the day but, As part of the 24hour service needed for the hospitals A&E department, the he took his turn with all the other Radiographers on an on-call rota system.
In general, the regular radiographers would only need to make one exposure to get the view required, but on the superintendent's night, two or more exposures were needed, even with some patients being returned to the department from A&E as the films were not good enough.
This person was highly qualified yet not especially competent judged by the numbers of exposures he needed to take.
The wording in the gas regs is 'a competent person', however the context is also important. For some strange reason, Touring caravans are treated as a special case, in that the person installing, servicing repairing or removing any part of the permanent gas installation must be competent. In all other areas of the regulations, Domestic and commercial fitters must be registered competent fitters.
CORGI are the body given the responsibility for registering combustible gas fitters. They do not give a blanket approval, each fitter is assessed and rated for different types of installation. The reason for this is whilst many of the necessary skills are transferable (Use of compression fittings, gas pipe sizing etc), there are specific requirements that differ depending on the type of gas or the location /application involved. A fitter rated for Natural gas Domestic installations is not automatically approved for LPG Domestic installations.
A highly qualified and competent person working on pneumatic or hydraulic systems will not necessarily by fully conversant with the specific needs for acceptable materials, working standards and system test requirements for LPG systems.
When I left college, I got a job as a porter working in a busy X-ray department at my local hospital. The department was run by a 'Superintendent Radiographer' who by all the certificates on his office wall was highly qualified. He rarely took x-rays during the day but, As part of the 24hour service needed for the hospitals A&E department, the he took his turn with all the other Radiographers on an on-call rota system.
In general, the regular radiographers would only need to make one exposure to get the view required, but on the superintendent's night, two or more exposures were needed, even with some patients being returned to the department from A&E as the films were not good enough.
This person was highly qualified yet not especially competent judged by the numbers of exposures he needed to take.
The wording in the gas regs is 'a competent person', however the context is also important. For some strange reason, Touring caravans are treated as a special case, in that the person installing, servicing repairing or removing any part of the permanent gas installation must be competent. In all other areas of the regulations, Domestic and commercial fitters must be registered competent fitters.
CORGI are the body given the responsibility for registering combustible gas fitters. They do not give a blanket approval, each fitter is assessed and rated for different types of installation. The reason for this is whilst many of the necessary skills are transferable (Use of compression fittings, gas pipe sizing etc), there are specific requirements that differ depending on the type of gas or the location /application involved. A fitter rated for Natural gas Domestic installations is not automatically approved for LPG Domestic installations.
A highly qualified and competent person working on pneumatic or hydraulic systems will not necessarily by fully conversant with the specific needs for acceptable materials, working standards and system test requirements for LPG systems.
i am a corgi fitter and in my opinion corgi dont help matters,I did the LPG changeover course and qualified for permanent dwellings and residential park homes.Caravans are another separate course although the only difference that I can find in the book is ventilation and spillage testing of a particular fire.But to do this course i have to go to blackpool spending around
When and if my regulator packs up I shall change it back to the old system. You know the system thats been in vans for about 30years with no problems.
I just dont like the idea of a high pressure gas pipe in the van. Sooner have the valve on the gas bottle.
I think its a backward step.
Edd
I just dont like the idea of a high pressure gas pipe in the van. Sooner have the valve on the gas bottle.
I think its a backward step.
Edd
Damian
Moderator
In reply to the above posts, firstly David, I agree with you, and having spoken to several CORGI fitters who have recently withdrawn from the scheme, so do they, for precisely the reasons you outline, and the exorbitant cost or continued registration.
Secondly to Essexeddie, it is nothing to do with the EU job creation scheme, it is our own H&S Executive who demand more and more regulation on gas fitting and regarding the old style gas fitting with regulator on cylinder, yes it is a far better system in the respect of not having gas at 100psi in a rubber (compound) hose, however, even that system did have failures, but not anywhere near as many as now with the fixed regulator.
Secondly to Essexeddie, it is nothing to do with the EU job creation scheme, it is our own H&S Executive who demand more and more regulation on gas fitting and regarding the old style gas fitting with regulator on cylinder, yes it is a far better system in the respect of not having gas at 100psi in a rubber (compound) hose, however, even that system did have failures, but not anywhere near as many as now with the fixed regulator.
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