New to All This

[Val & Frank]

Hello to one and all,

We are new to Caravanning although we did do a little along time ago, now the children are grown, and flown the nest ( well almost ) we are thinking about starting again. I don't remember all this technical talk from the 60s maybe vans were lighter then( and we didn't have the EU )

What we have been looking at is a Bessacarr Cameo 645GL my wife likes the idea of the fixed bed that you can walk around. Also the shower toilet etc, that you can access without going through the bedroom. Well we have been to a couple of local dealers and the Cameo or the Senator Louisianna seem to be what we have settled on.

My problem now is that I didn't really want to buy a 4X4, but I can't seem to find a car that will pull either of these vans. I have been buying the caravan magazines to look at tow cars also I have visited the cuddles site that some one posted about earlier. Anyone have any ideas that could help us, we haven't purchased the van or tow car as yet. I am not bothered about petrol or diesel, manual/automatic etc

My neigbour has a Passat Estate and I looked up his van and it is 100% I understand that 85% is the recommended ratio, but is this still relevant with modern stabilisers etc. Or is it possible to fit any extras that would allow you to tow safely at the 100% level.

thanks you in anticipation

Val & Frank

 

[Lutz]

You are asking an almost philosophical question there. Of course, 85% gives you a greater margin of safety than 100% and the latter will demand more due care, all other things being equal. But therein lies the catch. There are a lot more factors that affect safety than just a poor weight ratio. Poor load distribution or poor driving, for example, can do more harm than an unfavourable weight ratio and easily offset an otherwise good match (on paper).

Besides, there is no sudden transition from safe to unsafe and so everybody must decide for themselves where the limits of their capability are.

There are such things as electronic stabilisers which actively control any instability rather than the usual passive frictional or viscous stabilisers and the two can be used together. They are available either factory-fitted on cars or for retrofit to caravans (or both). This would be one additional feature which would give additional protection.

 

[Val & Frank]

You are asking an almost philosophical question there. Of course, 85% gives you a greater margin of safety than 100% and the latter will demand more due care, all other things being equal. But therein lies the catch. There are a lot more factors that affect safety than just a poor weight ratio. Poor load distribution or poor driving, for example, can do more harm than an unfavourable weight ratio and easily offset an otherwise good match (on paper).

Besides, there is no sudden transition from safe to unsafe and so everybody must decide for themselves where the limits of their capability are.

There are such things as electronic stabilisers which actively control any instability rather than the usual passive frictional or viscous stabilisers and the two can be used together. They are available either factory-fitted on cars or for retrofit to caravans (or both). This would be one additional feature which would give additional protection.

Thanks for that information I will look it up

frank

 

[Steve L]

As Lutz has already said there realy is no strong guiding light that using less of the cars tow capacity will give a guarrranteed safer tow. Loading of the outfit has a far greater part to play.

I have towed for 30 years and towed some pretty hairy looking loads from goods trailers to caravans and even a fin keeled yacht. Also I've towed those super long glider trailers. Weight wise I've gone right up to 100 tons with HGV.

All of these loads have realy hinged around correct load distribution over the axles.

As for a tow car to cope with larger vans, you could look at the upper luxury car market Jag XJ etc or go for a people carrier. You might even look at a van like the Mercedes Vito, converted to a multi person carrier. These would probably have gear ratios more suited to towing as they are primarily designed to carry loads.

Mercedes do many versions of the Vito and a mate of mine has got one able to carry 6 people with the two sliding doors glazed in privacey glass then the rest of the rear as a standard van to carry his tools, as he is a mobile engineer. The back door is solid too, but due to clever paint work from Mercedes the whole vehicle looks like a black windowed people carrier rather than a comercial van. Also as expected of the brand, creature comforts are not a compromise. The only down side is fuel consumption, he struggles to get over 22mpg, but he does drive like a rep, so the right foot is like a blacksmith's anvil.

Stabilisers should not be relied upon to cure sway, they are only there to assist.

My current outfit is a 1982 link 575 (20foot twin axle) towed at 100% with a Laguna 2Ltr (1998) estate, and it tows like a dream with a hitch (nose) weight of 75Kgs. I can tow all day at any of the permitted speeds and not hold up any traffic even on hills. All of this maily due to loading correctly and getting the hitch weight right for the car.

Steve.

 

[Wendy-Norfolk]

As Lutz has already said there realy is no strong guiding light that using less of the cars tow capacity will give a guarrranteed safer tow. Loading of the outfit has a far greater part to play.

I have towed for 30 years and towed some pretty hairy looking loads from goods trailers to caravans and even a fin keeled yacht. Also I've towed those super long glider trailers. Weight wise I've gone right up to 100 tons with HGV.

All of these loads have realy hinged around correct load distribution over the axles.

As for a tow car to cope with larger vans, you could look at the upper luxury car market Jag XJ etc or go for a people carrier. You might even look at a van like the Mercedes Vito, converted to a multi person carrier. These would probably have gear ratios more suited to towing as they are primarily designed to carry loads.

Mercedes do many versions of the Vito and a mate of mine has got one able to carry 6 people with the two sliding doors glazed in privacey glass then the rest of the rear as a standard van to carry his tools, as he is a mobile engineer. The back door is solid too, but due to clever paint work from Mercedes the whole vehicle looks like a black windowed people carrier rather than a comercial van. Also as expected of the brand, creature comforts are not a compromise. The only down side is fuel consumption, he struggles to get over 22mpg, but he does drive like a rep, so the right foot is like a blacksmith's anvil.

Stabilisers should not be relied upon to cure sway, they are only there to assist.

My current outfit is a 1982 link 575 (20foot twin axle) towed at 100% with a Laguna 2Ltr (1998) estate, and it tows like a dream with a hitch (nose) weight of 75Kgs. I can tow all day at any of the permitted speeds and not hold up any traffic even on hills. All of this maily due to loading correctly and getting the hitch weight right for the car.

Steve.

Frank

I have got the brochure for the new 2006 Bessacarr Cameo. The 645GL has a MPTLM of 1854kg. I cannot think a VW Passat would be an adequate enough tow car for a 'van of that weight!

We have the 625GL with a MPTLM of 1895kg, and tow with a Discovery TD5.

 

[Lutz]

Only the 4-wheel drive (4MOTION) variants of the Passat are approved to tow anything with an MTPLM of 1854kg.

 

[Lutz]

Only the 4-wheel drive (4MOTION) variants of the Passat are approved to tow anything with an MTPLM of 1854kg.

Depending on the specification of the Passat, you'd be towing between 102% and 119% - not really to be recommended with a high-sided trailer like a caravan.

 

[tj_4]

Frank

I too do not like the idea of a 4X4 but have towed for the last 9 years with MPV's. I have had 2 2.8 petrol Galaxy's but now my tug is a 2.5CRD Chrysler Grand Voyager. All three adequate tow vehicles with plenty of luxury. And all weigh over enough to pull nthe largest van. Plus you must remember that few caravaners actually keep within the weight of the caravan so some saftey margin will be needed.

Steve

 

[Lutz]

I agree with you on the Ford Galaxy but the Chrysler Grand Voyager has a maximum permissible towload of 1600kg which doesn't allow it to qualify for mention as able to 'pull the largest caravan'. It would certainly not be enough to tow the Bessacarr Cameo 645GL that Frank is considering to buy.

 

[BJ]

I have a Ford Galaxy (1.9TDi AUTO) and find this very stable.

This should tow either of the vans you mention within the 100% rule. When you car is loaded up with all your gear for your trips this will also improve the weight ratio.

The Galaxy /VW Sharon / Seat Alhambra (basically the same vehicle) has loads of luggage space.