new to towing

[magoclarke]

Hi all,

Im new to towing and getting frustrated by this 85% tow rule. I know its not law, just want personal opinions. Im looking to buy my first caravan which will be a venus 540/4 or the 580/6. Im having to change my car as it will put me over the 3500kg limit for total weight. The 580/6 which is preferred come in at 1395kg mtplm whilst the 540/4 is 1295kg. Every car I match to the 580/6 comes up around 92% but this is based on the the caravan being maxed to the limit which is highly unlikely and the cars kerb weight which only includes driver plus fuel which again highly unlikely. Im looking at cars which have been highly rated by the tow car awards which can comfortably tow the van just this guide of 85% is making me have doubts. I passed my test after 1997 so I'm limited to 3500kg and i have no intention at present of doing the b+e test. thanks Craig

 

[Sproket]

Hi Craig

From what you have said in your post and the max weight of the van you fancy that leaves you with a car with a gross weight of 2100kg to be just inside your 3500kg max for your licence

Have a look at the Honda CR-V SR 1.6 i-DTEC 2WD

 

[Craigyoung]

Hi Craig , I'm also like you , called Craig to ! I passed 4 days after they changed the ruling on weights , so can only tow 35ooKG combined even though I drive 15 ton busses every day , we went for the light weight baileys orion with the bunks for the kids , that weighs in at 1.287 KG towing with a our 7 seater 2.2 toyota verso at just under 1.495 KG , so we've still plenty left for filling the car and van up , done France last year , no bother . Hope you get sorted .

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hi all,

Im new to towing and getting frustrated by this 85% tow rule. I know its not law, just want personal opinions. Im looking to buy my first caravan which will be a venus 540/4 or the 580/6. Im having to change my car as it will put me over the 3500kg limit for total weight. The 580/6 which is preferred come in at 1395kg mtplm whilst the 540/4 is 1295kg. Every car I match to the 580/6 comes up around 92% but this is based on the the caravan being maxed to the limit which is highly unlikely and the cars kerb weight which only includes driver plus fuel which again highly unlikely. Im looking at cars which have been highly rated by the tow car awards which can comfortably tow the van just this guide of 85% is making me have doubts. I passed my test after 1997 so I'm limited to 3500kg and i have no intention at present of doing the b+e test. thanks Craig

Hello Craig,

You asked for a personal opinion:-
You have clearly understood how the "ratio calculation" is fundamentally flawed. However that is the way it is done to provide some simplified way of comparing possible combinations.

I appreciate you are new to the forum, and may or may not have caught up with one of the bees in my bonnet. Please never again use the word rule to describe the 85% guidance. it has no legal authority, it does not guarantee your outfit will be safe or tow well, it was not derived using scientific evidence, and most importantly its only one (and in my opinion not even the most important) factors that affect towing;- thats the driver!

It's the continual misquoting of the guidance that has led you and others to become frustrated with trying to achieve it, The word rule has become so synonymous with it through misquoting it given it a perceived level of importance which is not justified.

Weight ratios do affect the quality of towing, and I wholeheartedly agree with the principle of keeping the trailer as light as possible, but its only one of several factors, so its about getting a range a criteria in proper balance rather than focusing on weight ratio.

Rant over

Don't get frustrated with trying to achieve 85%. that guidance is issued for novice towers, and as soon as you have gained some experience the guidance goes on to suggest you may wish to increase your ratio.

If you genuinely believe that you can keep your caravan loading small then go for the bigger caravan provided the combined MAM's are under 3500kG for your licence (which does have legal authority), only part load it to keep the ratio smaller. Then as time goes by you have some capacity to take a bit more when you discover those thing you left at home on the early trips.

85 86 87 88 89 90% or more, I seriously doubt even a seasoned tower could realistically tell the if a caravan was over 85% except by weighing it.

 

[magoclarke]

Hi craig I actually have a verso 7 seater as well, but the mam is 2260kg. Mine is a diesel 2.2 and when combined with most vans would put me over the 3500kg threshold, hence why Im having to sell it.

 

[Craigyoung]

Oh !! I love my car , we to found it hard looking for a lightweight van for the car to pull , but we did in the end , the baileys we got was spot on with the bunks to for the kids , we'll change in a few years when kids are bigger , tow car and van so I've got a few years before I take the B + E test. Have you looked at the baileys persuit , that's the newer version off what we've got , that's lightweight to .

 

[LizziePope]

Our video guide about outfit matching might help? Please click here for details.

 

[colin-yorkshire]

Hi craig I actually have a verso 7 seater as well, but the mam is 2260kg. Mine is a diesel 2.2 and when combined with most vans would put me over the 3500kg threshold, hence why Im having to sell it.

Hi Craig. I agree with [almost] every word Prof John has written. so there is not need to repeat it. but I would say as a caravanner [now retired] of over 40years. I can actually only remember towing a unit over 3500kg once. and that was taking the fleetwood to a site for the BIL with a motorhome as it started it's new life as a seasonal.
there are plenty of lightweight combos out there. forget the 85% look for a vehicle. may be your own that has a gross train weight of less than 3500kg deduct the MAM and buy a van that sits in the middle thats what I more or less did on every combo I ever used.

 

[Tukums]

If you are looking at cars that have won towing awards, Skoda Octavia's have won a few, however my variant does carry more weight than those put forward.
Skoda Octavia Estate 2.0TDi 4x4, mass in service 1,495kg, GVW 2,095kg so with both vans you mention you would be under 3,500kg. Just a thought!

 

[magoclarke]

If it were left to me I would happily settle for an estate but the other half won't! Im probably gonna go with the kuga or honda crv with the lunar 580. Thanks for the advice people much appreciated.

 

[seth1]

Perhaps maybe just me,but why not make your life easier and less restrictive and take the required test.How hard can it be reversing a farting little trailer?

 

[Raywood]

I agree with the professor that the 85%figure is a recommendation and not a rule and even for a novice I do not see that going over it for a couple of percentage points is a problem. I cannot tell you which to go for as I do not know your circumstances. You have to see what fits your needs and go for it but I am not sure why you want six berths if four is al you need.
The load allownce on caravans is very low so not sure how you can load it lightly and still have enough. If you are having trouble getting a car that will keep you under 3,500 kg at 85% I would risk up to 90% and just take it easy until you get used to it. There are very few poor tow cars these days but if you want advice on individual models just post details on here and someone will know.

 

[Woodentop]

If you are looking at a MPTLM of about 1400Kg the you have 2100Kg to play with. Almost any Chelsea Tractor will fall within that range but you don't need to go that high cost. You will find many vanners using a 4x4 chose such as the Kia's or Hyundi's - both of which are good value for money. A 2L or 2.2L diesel engine is generally the optimum.

A suggestion was made of the Octavia with which, having been the owner of one, I would heartily agree but be aware. Ours was an 04 130TDi hatch and its noseweight limit (i.e. the max weight on the ball when coupled up) was 60Kg which you will find hard to achieve with many modern vans. Equally you will also find the limit on almost anything else car-wise is 80Kg with the notable exception of the VW Passat which is 90Kg. We have our second Passat estate and wouldn't swap it for anything. If SWMBO doesn't like the idea of an estate she should try driving one: they are within millimetres of the same length as the saloon, have cavernous load area, and now come with parking sensors front and back or even automatic parking. My Management says she would never consider having any vehicle that does not have parking sensors.

 

[ProfJohnL]

If you are looking at a MPTLM of about 1400Kg the you have 2100Kg to play with. Almost any Chelsea Tractor will fall within that range but you don't need to go that high cost. ..................

Hello Woodentop,

I think you may not have understood the OP's limitation of not having the B+E category on his licence.

The wording in the statute (which is not mirrored accurately in the Governments web pages), tells you the vehicle a Cat B driver can drive must not exceed 3500kG combined MAM. Its the MAM bit which is often forgotten and is the potential sticky point here.

MAM stands for Maximum Authorised Mass, so it does not look at what the tow vehicle and trailer actually weighs, it looks at their top possible weights. JUst like the MTPLM of the caravan the car also has a a maximum weight limit or MAM. There are plenty of mid sized cars where their MAM is over 2 tonnes

Its the second greatest weight figure you find on the cars data plate sometimes shown as GVW of GVM MVW or MVM or MAM.

In simple terms if you add the car and caravans MTPLM's or MAM's together they must not exceed 3500kG, Even if you don't fully load them your Cat B licence does not allow you to drive the combination.