New Tow Car advice?

[Lutz]

This is e avtly what I'm saying they give one weight to a particular model of caravan , this is why I always have a weighbridge ticket for both my vehicle and caravan then I know what I can legally tow and load in my outfit,

But none of the powers-that-be are interested in your MIRO, nor in the payload. They are only interested in whether you are exceeding any of the plated values and MIRO is not a plated value.

 

[otherclive]

But weighing your caravan empty or with basic kit installed such as battery, gas and mover etc will give the owner a starting datum such that they can then load to what they perceive as their maximum kit. Reweighing then would show whether they are within MTPLM. My dealer weighed it with bare bones equipment and I then weighed it full.

 

[camel]

But weighing your caravan empty or with basic kit installed such as battery, gas and mover etc will give the owner a starting datum such that they can then load to what they perceive as their maximum kit. Reweighing then would show whether they are within MTPLM. My dealer weighed it with bare bones equipment and I then weighed it full.

It just amuses me all this so called technical
loading issues about getting a caravan loaded correctly, you are talking about getting one axle loaded right, have a go with a 44 tonner trying to get that right,

 

[Lutz]

But weighing your caravan empty or with basic kit installed such as battery, gas and mover etc will give the owner a starting datum such that they can then load to what they perceive as their maximum kit. Reweighing then would show whether they are within MTPLM. My dealer weighed it with bare bones equipment and I then weighed it full.

Absolutely! Having the caravan weighed when empty is the only sure way of determining what margin is left for payload. Any MIRO shown on a label or published in a brochure or owner's handbook can, at best, be used as a rough guide, but not as anything upon which one can rely.

 

[JezzerB]

A rough guide has and always will be fine for me until practice on the roads proves otherwise to me.

 

[Raywood]

I have seen posts where purchasers have found the MIRO considerably higher than the published weight, and I would agree with each caravan having to be weighed after production, so that purchasers know the loading allowance they have. I am not sure I would say the chassis manufacturers gross weight should be used for the MTPLM, as the body builders may have a good reason to restrict this.

 

[Lutz]

I have seen posts where purchasers have found the MIRO considerably higher than the published weight, and I would agree with each caravan having to be weighed after production, so that purchasers know the loading allowance they have. I am not sure I would say the chassis manufacturers gross weight should be used for the MTPLM, as the body builders may have a good reason to restrict this.

Fact is, however, that caravans aren't weighed as they come off the production line and manufacturers aren't under any obligation to do so. I would suspect that manufacturers would even oppose the idea of weighing each caravan on the grounds that they cannot guarantee that the weight doesn't change before the caravan is handed over to the customer, because the dealer may, in the interim, add items such as a motor mover, a spare wheel, etc.

If the caravan manufacturer restricts the MTPLM to a value significantly less than the chassis load allowance, one could argue that the chassis is overengineered because it is capable of carrying a higher load than required. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

 

[camel]

It seems strange that in continental Europe no other country has need of the UK's industry advice. There must be in experienced caravanners there too, so how do they start on this journey of discovery without the advice that is so dogishly followed in the UK?

Any continental caravanners wish to tell us how they manage?

Prof,
If the 85% advisary loading ratio is there for all to see and according to you it is nothing to take seriously when it comes to matching a caravan outfit ( for the last three years I've been well over 95%) , what advice would you give to someone who is new to caravanning, would you say go for the 85% matching or would you say load up the front locker box with two gas bottles, wheel clamp and hitch lock and a jack then load your awning kids bikes all you personal effects in side the caravan and then jog off down to Cornwall, of course you would not you would refer them to the 85% matching,

 

[JTQ]

Fact is, however, that caravans aren't weighed as they come off the production line and manufacturers aren't under any obligation to do so. I would suspect that manufacturers would even oppose the idea of weighing each caravan on the grounds that they cannot guarantee that the weight doesn't change before the caravan is handed over to the customer, because the dealer may, in the interim, add items such as a motor mover, a spare wheel, etc.

If the caravan manufacturer restricts the MTPLM to a value significantly less than the chassis load allowance, one could argue that the chassis is overengineered because it is capable of carrying a higher load than required. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

That could well be true, I have not access to the dealer's contract with his manufacturer to check how robustly they specify.

However, we included a contractual clause with our dealer that the available payload to us on delivery should not be less than an agreed value. [300kgs]

On delivery as agreed it was weighed on load cells and found to be I think I recall 62 kgs over the maximum weight it could be, for the plated MTPLM.

That instigated a lot of behind the scenes activity, with the outcome of them offering the MTPLM being replated up to the chassis limit, and a request we please settle for a shortfall of the order of 20 kgs; which we did.

Buying in a professional manner, with such vital things contracted, is IMO the only way that will move towards getting the payloads we require. As it is presently offered, it is a meaningless dreamworld figure, IMO one typically pathetic for starters and even that one rarely achieved.

 

[otherclive]

That could well be true, I have not access to the dealer's contract with his manufacturer to check how robustly they specify.

However, we included a contractual clause with our dealer that the available payload to us on delivery should not be less than an agreed value. [300kgs]

On delivery as agreed it was weighed on load cells and found to be I think I recall 62 kgs over the maximum weight it could be, for the plated MTPLM.

That instigated a lot of behind the scenes activity, with the outcome of them offering the MTPLM being replated up to the chassis limit, and a request we please settle for a shortfall of the order of 20 kgs; which we did.

Buying in a professional manner, with such vital things contracted, is IMO the only way that will move towards getting the payloads we require. As it is presently offered, it is a meaningless dreamworld figure, IMO one typically pathetic for starters and even that one rarely achieved.

I seem to recall reading somewhere that an empty van ex works could vary by up to 5% due to humidity and the moisture within the structure and furnishings. There goes 50 kg on a 1000 kg ex works van. There are some things makers cannot totally control.

 

[JTQ]

I seem to recall reading somewhere that an empty van ex works could vary by up to 5% due to humidity and the moisture within the structure and furnishings. There goes 50 kg on a 1000 kg ex works van. There are some things makers cannot totally control.

Yes, I have seen tolerances quoted, and on a 1650 kg ex-works van, that if +5% is a crippling loss of 82 kgs.
Hence, you can appreciate why we stepped over that by contracting on a simple minimum usable payload value.

How much can arguably be credited to moisture with a near wood-less caravan , IMO it can't be anywhere near that.
In my professional world we could never have "got off the ground" without way better weight control.

If this industry needs a massive tolerance equating to 10%, then it should quote what matters to the end customer ie minus 10% , plus zero, not plus or minus 5 %.
But then, here it is the industry and market place it is.

 

[otherclive]

Yes, I have seen tolerances quoted, and on a 1650 kg ex-works van, that if +5% is a crippling loss of 82 kgs.
Hence, you can appreciate why we stepped over that by contracting on a simple minimum usable payload value.

How much can arguably be credited to moisture with a near wood-less caravan , IMO it can't be anywhere near that.
In my professional world we could never have "got off the ground" without way better weight control.

If this industry needs a massive tolerance equating to 10%, then it should quote what matters to the end customer ie minus 10% , plus zero, not plus or minus 5 %.
But then, here it is the industry and market place it is.

I agree with you that the margin should be less as less absorbent structural materials are used but without knowing how humidity affects them it’s difficult to be precise.
Like you aspects of my career would have been difficult without good weight control from design to completion and through life too. It could have made a submarine useless if it couldn’t go “ sub”.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Parksy has asked that the debate about the industry matching advice be continued in a new thread

I have started one called "85% debate - continuation" in the tow cars section.