Newbie Question

[Cakeboy79]

This is a straight repost of my post in the Hello thread as it was recommended that I ask in here as well. Any help greatly appreciated.

I'm a proper caravan newbie in that we haven't even bought one yet, but having read most of the last year's issues of Practical Caravan we've got some ideas.

I don't know if this is the right forum for this or if it should be in tow cars, but our 61 plate Skoda Octavia is the 1.4 TSI version with a kerbweight of 1180kg and a max towing capacity of 1800kg. This seems like a large variation so I'm wondering if I might be out on the kerbweight as I'm taking it off the internet. Does the 85% rule come from the kerbweight of the max towing weight which is almost similar to the max car weight. If it's the latter then I can tow something around 1500kg, but if its off the kerbweight then my options are really limited for a 4 berth vcaravan.

Any information would be greatly appreciated so we can start looking at suitable caravans, I know that Towsafe can help me out, but at £3 a go I need to find a short list of caravans first before I start just guessing and it would be nice to have a suitable ballpark to start with.

Many thanks

 

[NigelHutson]

You need to base your caravan choice on the kerbside weight, and it's recommended that the caravan doesn't exceed 85% of that weight, especially for a beginner. Therefore, if the figure of 1180 kg is right, you need to be looking for a caravan with a maximum weight of 1003 kg. The 85% is not a rule, but is a sensible recommendation. However, the maximum weight of the caravan should not exceed the kerbside weight of the tow car (i.e. 100%). You will find the declared mass (kerbside weight in another term) on your V5 Registration Document for the car.
The towing limit relates to the maximum that the car will be capable of starting on a measured gradient etc without causing any damage, and not what is neccesarily sensible or safe to tow on the road.
Nigel.

 

[SteveW77]

You will find the declared mass (kerbside weight in another term) on your V5 Registration Document for the car.

It is more likely to be on your V5 form as Mass in Service.

Steve W

 

[NigelHutson]

"Mass in Service"
That's the term I was looking for in my addled brain!
Thanks Steve.

 

[Cakeboy79]

Thanks for the quick response guys. Looking at the V5 it gives me a mass in service of 1310kg so I can go upto about 1100kg give or take which gives me a ballpark figure to work under.

I think that my 1.4 might be a bit gutless though so I might well wait anyway unless anyone has a different opinion

 

[Tukums]

My Octavia 2011/12 handbook states for the 1.4TSI the kerbweight is 1,330kg (inc.75kg fuel / driver) as said check with V5C doc with a towing limit of 1,300kg.
My Octavia Estate 2.0TDi 4x4 (61) has a kerbweight of 1,495kg and a towing limit of 1,600kg.
https://mediaportal.skoda-auto.com/resource/documentation/manuals/en/Octavia/11-2011/Manual/A5_Octavia_OwnersManual.pdf

 

[NigelHutson]

Whilst the 1.4TSI will be no ball of fire, with 148 lbs/ft of torque (which being turbocharged I would guess is produced from fairly low revs) and 122 bhp, providing you're only looking at a maximum weight of 1100kgs, it will probably be fine. Just don't expect too much in the performance stakes.
I'm sure there'll be someone who has experience of that car posting before too long.

 

[Parksy]

We started caravanning around 12 years ago and I owned a Vauxhall Cavalier 1.6 at the time. I towed an old style (steel chassis) 2 berth caravan which was less then the kerbweight but sadly too heavy for the engine to pull at the time. The outfit struggled up long motorway gradients with the speed dropping and me changing down the gearbox, and eventually the cylinder head gasket failed on the Cavalier after a few less drastic problems which I'd imagine were due to towing.
Obviously engine technology has moved on from then but to be honest I think that a 1.4 engine might struggle to pull a 4 berth caravan.
There are other options open to you however, have you considered buying basic lightweight caravan such as a Freedom or Caravelair , a Folding Caravan which wouldn't be too heavy, or perhaps even a trailer tent ?

 

[NigelHutson]

Steve,
The TSI, although only 1.4 is turbocharged and produces the output quoted above, so whilst only a small capacity, it's not as low on power as you might imagine. It's never going to match a modern 2.0 diesel in pulling power, but given what it is, I don't think it would be too bad. I can't remember whether we've had that engine at the Tow Car event.
Obviously the lighter the caravan, the better the performance. Getting a modern 4-berth under 1100 kgs could present a problem as you say though.
Nigel.

 

[Parksy]

I take your point Nigel, engine technology has moved on from when my Cavalier was built. After the Cavalier I bought a petrol driven Sierra 2.0 i Ghia Auto Estate car which was a lovely car to drive at the time. I still found over time though that regular caravan towing put a bit of a strain on the engine which eventually manifested itself in a broken cam belt which required a partial engine rebuild and later on a secondhand auto gearbox and an atf cooler.
I'm probably somewhat biased because though, for the past 9 years I've towed with large practically bombproof Mitsubishi 4x4s which have never given any cause for concern.
Cakeboy would find a 4 berth caravan that he could legally tow such as a Bailey Ranger, but he would be very close to 100% towing weight, and because he's a complete novice this would be slightly worrying.

 

[emmerson]

Sorry all you 1.4 supporters, but I must agree with our American cousins,ie "there ain't no substitute for cubic inches".
I certainly would not want to tow with only 1.4 litres, turbocharged or not!

 

[NigelHutson]

I quite agree on that Steve. As the Yanks say, "there aint any substitute for cubes!" Mind you, if you look at the performance of the non-turbo'd 2.3 Sierra, and compare that with a modern 2.0 litre..............
I must be getting old!
Emmerson, you beat me to it! I wouldn't dismiss things out of hand without looking further into it. If you consider that many of us tow with "puny" 2.0 litre diesels and regard that as the "norm", when not so long ago that wouldn't have been entertained.

 

[emmerson]

Agreed Nigel, but there is a hell of a difference between 1.4 and 2.0 litre.Most 2 litre diesels today will out-perform what were known as powerful cars in my day, but I will stick with the Americans!
Big is best!

 

[Parksy]

Rising fuel prices with no prospect of a drop anytime in the forseeable future could mean that we all have to downsize, hopefully caravan manufacturers will begin to address this sitation by designing lighter more basic caravans so that a turbo driven 1.4 would be seen as average.
If the caravan industry fail to take note they will go the way of or motor industry because the Koreans, Japanese or Chinese would find a way to reduce caravan weights and still make money.

 

[Surfer]

Before deciding on any caravan perhaps the OP cna in form us whether they have a B or a B+E driving licence as that wil severely restrict type of caravan they can purchase?

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

hi all,
While Emmerson raises a valid point, larger engined vehicles will allways be better at towing, "with the odd exeption" I must agree with Parksy, it is well time the caravan industry took note of the developments in car design and specifications, and produced vans that were more intune with the trend,
that is not to say that some have not tried, the new Venus range is quite light yet still retains the "proper van" feel as does the ranger but the fact still remains vans are too heavy!! when I started some 46 years ago the average van could be towed by the average car, this rule does not apply today, the average van has a MTPLM far in exess of the average kerb weight of the new generation fuel efficient cars, where the engine capacity is increasingly getting smaller.
that is not to say it is impossible however, with a bit of research it is well possible to find a match for almost any configuration, providing one is prepared to compromise.
I have for the last few outfits tried to downsize as the cost escalates, sometimes not quite as sucessfully as one hoped but still worth the effort, my present configuration is probably the best I have had in the last few years "1.7CDTI Meriva towing a 380/2 ranger" and while I would not envisage undertaking the epic journey that Emmerson is about to embark on quite suitable for the 3 or 4 times the van comes out each year.
as tow car running costs escalate you just have to consider what you do with it for the other 48 weeks the van is not on the back,
the OP may find a van suitable to tow with his present car and theres nothing wrong with that, yes it may be a little small for a long haul but with a bit of thought theres nothing that cannot be overcome, plan the journey and take your time thats the key to towing with a small tow car. believe me " I have a draw full of Tshirts" the Octavia is a fine car, and there are 4 berths out there around the 1100/1200kg mark my view is simple "go for it",

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

Before deciding on any caravan perhaps the OP cna in form us whether they have a B or a B+E driving licence as that wil severely restrict type of caravan they can purchase?

good point Surfer, in normal configurations this would be the first question, however I doubt very much that a 1.4 Octavia will have a gross train weight above 3500kg,

 

[Cakeboy79]

Before deciding on any caravan perhaps the OP cna in form us whether they have a B or a B+E driving licence as that wil severely restrict type of caravan they can purchase?

good point Surfer, in normal configurations this would be the first question, however I doubt very much that a 1.4 Octavia will have a gross train weight above 3500kg,

Wow...thanks for the advice so far. To answer Surfer, I passed my test in 1996 so I have the B+E category. From doing a bit of searching myself, plus the advice in here I've worked out my 85% limit is a shade under 1150kg which leaves me the choice of a few new vans and a larger number of older ones.

I don't really want to shell out on a new van especially if we're just starting out as we might hate it, so I guess it's time to start scouring eBay and having a chat with my local dealers.

Once again, thanks for the input. It has been most helpful

 

[Parksy]

It's a good idea to start off with a used caravan Cakeboy and there are some very good used models for sale.
Be extremely careful when buying from online auction sites, I've read several horror stories on this forum and elsewhere from buyers who have been deceived or cheated.
Never buy a caravan without checking it first, not least to ensure that the vendor actually owns the caravan and is legally allowed to sell it.
Have a good browse through the Used Caravan Buyers Guide by clicking on the rectangular boxes on the left you will be able to gain enough knowledge to help you to avoid most of the pitfalls.
Below are url's to websites where used caravans are advertised, some of which will be in the area close to where you live which will give you (or a mobile caravan service engineer) a chance to carry out an inspection before parting with your hard earned cash.
Practical Caravan buy/sell
Preloved,
Caravan Finder
Used caravans are also advertised in Practical Caravan magazine.
If you want to know anything at all, however trivial it may seem just ask. The only daft question is the one that you should have asked - but didn't

 

[Cakeboy79]

Thanks again guys. Is it worth getting a copy of the Haynes Caravan Manual for some light bedtime reading? I've seen some mixed reviews online so far

 

[emmerson]

Cakeboy, as is usual for this site, you have been given some excellent advice.
I must say that I think you are very wise in not buying new for your first van, as it could be a very expensive mistake. I believe there are people out there who don't do caravanning, but they must be very sad!
However, to the point of this post!
As you have decided to go for used, I'd suggest that you look for a private sale, preferably fairly local to you. A van being sold by an elderly couple, retiring from their hobby could mean that you get all the bits & pieces that turn basic into luxury.
Don't forget that if you buy a basic van from a dealer, you will still need all the expensive bits like awning, Aquarolls, waste tanks, ehu lead and so on. All these neccesities can run into many hundreds of pounds on top of the price of the van.
OK, you won't get the warranty that a dealer might offer, but you could save yourself a lot of money.
The less you spend on this first van, the less you lose in the unlikely event that you or your family don't like Caravanning, and the more you'll have for the upgrade in a year or two.
Good luck.

 

[Sproket]

Thanks again guys. Is it worth getting a copy of the Haynes Caravan Manual for some light bedtime reading? I've seen some mixed reviews online so far

Hi Cakeboy
This is the book to get
The Caravan Handbook by John Wickersham

A handbook containing all the information a caravanner should need when preparing for a journey. It is also an essential glovebox companion for use en route and on site. Presented in a colourful, easy-to-use format, with details on buying, towing, accessories and site procedures, this guide aims to answer all the questions raised when using and maintaining a caravan. There are detailed chapters on electricity, gas, sanitation and refrigeration, as well as information on servicing and laying up for winter.

 

[Raywood]

When we started caravaning we had a company car with no choice as to spec. I have towed with 1300 petrol engines in both Fords and Vauxhalls and provided you were careful with the choice of caravan they coped but were never a ball of fire. A 1400 engine should cope and I would certainly give it a go although you might want to try a hired caravan at first before lashing out on a new to you one.

 

[emmerson]

Raywood, when we bought our first van over forty years ago, the "norm" was to have one foot of caravan for every hundred cc of engine. My second towing experience was with a 1600 Victor and a 16ft Berkley ( think) Yes we coped, but as I said that was nearing fifty years ago. No way would I tow in today's traffic with only 1400cc, turbo or not.

 

[seth1]

I can remember bringing this subject up a good while ago regarding small engines.And it seems plenty are towing good wieghts with 1.6 and even 1.5 diesels perfectly ok.Its not quite the size that matters more the fact of its thermal effiency.Whilst larger may be better is not allways true in this day and age as outputs have risen to what they should have been.I first started with an astra 1.6 diesel,all 60hp of it.Always got there.Two days to Cornwall not bad eh?