News Spin

[ShadySadie]

The lunch time news just ran a news story again about Petrol Prices being dropped to under £1.

I use diesel most of the time as do my business vehicles and most of my staffs cars.

For any major difference to inflation and credit crunch surely the price of diesel needs to be under £1 as all our goods are delivered using diesel.

The vital Diesel prices are rarely mentioned on the news, is it some joint spin operation between the news agencies and Gordon's people?

 

[Rita1]

Petrol is cheaper than deisel because every barrel of oil makes more petrol than deisel And petrol cannot be stored easily

check the link below

http://www.eia.doe.gov/kids/energyfacts/sources/non-renewable/oil.html

 

[ShadySadie]

So that's why Diesel is cheaper than petrol in most of the rest of the world.

Rita the price of diesel in the UK is down to greedy UK politicians taxing us to our knees.

 

[Lutz]

Even though the tax on diesel here in Germany is lower than on petrol, diesel is no cheaper than petrol. It was the same price as petrol at the pumps today. So, one can't put it down to the government.

 

[DeliDave]

I'd be delighted if diesel was the same as petrol here,we always seem to be the only ones peying for 'green' policies.Wasnt there someone who wrote to CC or C&CC magazine saying he would resign his membership if the club tried to get fuel prices reduced what an idiot( carefully phrased as its a family forum)He could always give all his spare money to green charities if fuel ever comes down a bit

 

[ShadySadie]

UK government have kept diesel price above petrol for years, so who else do we blame!

I had to fill up with diesel this evening and it was 16p a litre more than the unleaded.

I'd be happy to pay the same for diesel as unleaded Lutz, and lower diesel prices would cut the numbers of foreign trucks on our roads and make UK business more compettitive.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Locally to me petrol prices dropped to 99.9p/L but diesel only fell to 119.9p/L . Today petrol fell to 97.9 and at last diesel cane down to 109.9

That was a 20% differential and the biggest I have seen yet. It is now down to 12.2%.

Anyone seen bigger?

A few weeks ago I did quick and rough calculation to compare the relative cost effectiveness of Diesel vs Petrol for cars. My assumptions are of course open to debate, but I concluded that whilst most diesel equivalent cars will do between 25% to 33% more mpg, the other additional running costs of diesels brings the real cost effectiveness down to between 15 to 20% over petrol. This is also affected by annual mileage - the higher mileage the bigger the savings.

Over all the % fuel cost differential is now approaching the point where comparative running costs a re roughly equal, and the next car I get may well be petrol rather than diesel.

 

[Lutz]

Like I said, diesel is the same price as petrol over here even though tax on diesel is lower. Therefore, if tax on diesel were the same, as in the UK, it's hardly surprising that it's more expensive.

The lower tax on diesel fuel here has a catch (as so very often). Vehicle tax on diesels is much higher (in many cases over double). So, at the moment, the only benefit of a diesel is, as John says, its better efficiency.

 

[ShadySadie]

Yesterday next to Norway the UK had the 2nd highest Diesel price in Europe!

I'm not bothered as to what fuel costs in Germany, Timbuktu, Caracas or Dubai or how much tax is paid in those countries.

UK price of Diesel is far to high in comparison to our competitor's and that's without comparing the number of vehicles we have using it.

Where Diesel costs more in other countries it's only about 2 - 10 Euro cents and 10 Euro cents is less than half the difference I paid yesterday.

Penalising motorists who buy a more economical diesel by hiking the cost of diesel far above that of other countries is an economic disaster.

Today the UK Government wants to add 2pence to fuel duty as fuel price has dropped! Plus the VAT of course, and the extra inflation when fuel prices climb back again.

Whilst Brown and Labour bluster about the cost of Gas and Electric and make idle threats re the prices and make stupid plans about using extra lagging to counter act the higher costs of heating they are still happy to take more from us for Auto fuel.

 

[Lutz]

All I was trying to get at is that the high cost of diesel in the UK is not because of any penalties imposed by the government, but simply because the oil companies charge higher prices for diesel than for petrol.

In other countries this is offset by lower taxes on diesel. Fact remains, however, that diesel is more expensive to produce.

 

[rob_jax]

Just taking one business expense in isolation of other related expenses - and then complaining about those where the costs are higher than your European competitors, but ignoring those where they are cheaper - is not an argument, just an excuse to let off steam.

 

[BeemerMal]

Wind back to 1995 when I first had a company (diesel) car. The company moved its policy to diesel, as did many others, because overall, diesel, although more expensive to buy they were more efficient to run and over the life of the car it was cheaper. Remember this was before anyone invented the phrase "climate change".

However, the price differential in the UK then was that diesel(in percentage terms) was approximately 7% dearer than petrol. Now the differential is often as much as 20%.

I believe this increased differential has come about simply by the oil companies increasing diesel prices to maintain profit margins as more and more motorists moved over to diesel, because of the increased MPG diesel gives the motorist means the amount of fuel used is less.

 

[ShadySadie]

Nonsense Lutz!

"Remember how our government told us leaded petrol was bad, and thus justified higher tax? Did they ever reduce the tax on LRP to the same level as unleaded petrol? No.

Remember how diesel used to be cheaper, persuading lots of people to buy diesel cars? What did the gvoernment do? Increase the rate of tax on diesel."

"Hauliers have complained that the extortionate tax on diesel gives foreign competitors an unfair advantage over British

companies."

Sorry but fuel tax's make Diesel the fuel that fuels business in the UK far to expensive.

Compared to ten years ago a British Diesel car driver is about

 

[Lutz]

I don't see why you keep blaming the government for higher fuel costs. There's no higher tax on diesel than petrol in the UK (and the VAT rate is the same, too), so the root cause is at the producer end. Why should the government subsidise the oil companies by reducing tax on diesel? That wouldn't be fair on owners of petrol engined cars.

 

[Parksy]

Tax on both diesel and petrol will remain high because the government has to recoup the revenue that it lost from smokers.

The price of diesel is often overlooked in news bulletins because imo the difference in price between diesel and petrol varies in different areas.

The oil companies and major petrol retailers charge what they can get away with depending on the amount of competition in any given area.

Tesco are offering 5p per litre reduction if

 

[ShadySadie]

Nearly the highest number of vehicles per head than any other European Country. The second highest fuel costs, we have our own oil and gas supply(sold to us as giving us cheap fuel and ready supply)and pay 600% + more tax than USA and anyone with any sense will tell you that UK has one of the highest fule tax's in the World!

Unless someone else is applying UK tax other than the Government who should we blame?

Other fuel producing countries have cheaper fuel prices that are recognised as an aid to building their economy and improving living conditions for their people. If its good enough for others Governements to subsidise fuel to aid their people and country it is good enough for the UK.

According to European price guide, Germany Diesel Price is slightly less than Unleaded. Even if its the same, if its good enough for Germany and others to pay less tax on Diesel why should we not pay less in the UK.

A German rying to give a lesson on UK Tax whilst enjoying a better tax advantage on the fuel costs is rather rich.

Before you try adding other German factors Lutz. We've paid top prices for UK motoring services compared to most of Europe since I started driving. So, Thanks but no Thanks.

Quick Poll here -

I and my business and 33 staff that are in today do not give a damn about what Germans pay or don't pay for fuel or in Tax's

With a bit of luck, the current credit crunch will also break the EU ties and let us get on with our lives in the UK without our EEC cousins sticking their noses into UK business and way of life.

 

[ShadySadie]

Wind back to 1995 when I first had a company (diesel) car. The company moved its policy to diesel, as did many others, because overall, diesel, although more expensive to buy they were more efficient to run and over the life of the car it was cheaper. Remember this was before anyone invented the phrase "climate change".

However, the price differential in the UK then was that diesel(in percentage terms) was approximately 7% dearer than petrol. Now the differential is often as much as 20%.

I believe this increased differential has come about simply by the oil companies increasing diesel prices to maintain profit margins as more and more motorists moved over to diesel, because of the increased MPG diesel gives the motorist means the amount of fuel used is less.

Stats we just looked at suggest that Diesel and Petrol Prices were more or less on a par 10 plus years ago.

Vehicular use has increased in the UK so the profit take does not wash.

UK fuel price has allowed more foreign trucks on our roads so the hike in diesel price has an adverse effect as well.

Vast differences in price between UK market and others is still not explained, oil companies opperate world wide so surely they want to make similar profits in all markets.

With more cars per head surely one would expect lower prices.

 

[Guest]

WOW! looks like your gonna blow a gasket any min now sadie, personally I like the EU, its like were all in the poo together.

 

[Lutz]

Getting upset about the cost of fuel is understandable, but you've got to keep the total cost of motoring in perspective. The vehicle tax on a 2 litre Euro 3 or 4 emissions diesel in Germany is 309 Euros whereas the same size Euro 3 or 4 petrol car is only 135 Euros.

 

[ShadySadie]

Why do you bother Lutz, when you do not understand.

What Mr or Mrs Germany pays for tax or running costs is nothing to do with the UK.

Muppets in Westminster are following some European ideas on all sorts of thing and then sell us in Britain some half baked reason for our tax's, fuel prices, immigration or health subsidies or whatever.

Using my late grandads term "screw what they do in France and Germany" look after your own country.

What somebody has to pay in Germany, Kabul or Mexico City is no consolation to staff I and others will have to make redundant when our running costs are partly crippled by UK fuel costs.

We have two suppliers that now deliver goods to us using European vehicles and the two British companies that did the job for years have now closed down. The men who have lost their jobs will not give a fig as to what is paid in Europe, they know that UK fuel costs have put them on the scrap heap!

"personally I like the EU, its like were all in the poo together"

le croc, If the UK had not wasted billions signing up to and complying with stupid EU ideas and dictats we probably wouldn't be in the poo with them. If thay and you are silly enough to stand in dung it doesn't mean we all have to

In fact the wise people do their own thing and keep out of trouble and let the Lemmings like Germany and France and others fall in the poo.

 

[Lutz]

I don't get you. On the one hand you are saying what somebody pays for diesel in Germany, Kabul or Mexico City is of no interest to you, but on the other hand you are complaining that the price in the UK is the second highest in Europe after Norway. If you don't care what fuel costs abroad, why compare with other countries?

I could understand if you complaining about fuel prices in general, but your original post referred specifically to diesel and I'm saying that, given the same level of taxation on both, it's not surprising that diesel is more expensive. In your next post you ask the question why then is diesel cheaper than petrol in most of the rest of the world and I gave you a straight answer. Now you are dismissing the comparison as irrelevant.

 

[ShadySadie]

Lutz, I've seen you make some very helpful posts but other times you can come across as somebody with little common sense and possibly deliberately ignorant and only able to relate to a set of rules and ways imposed in Germany or Europe.

You have decided that I asked questions that I did not.

Diesel is the main tool of UK business and very many private car owners.

Diesel is far to expensive in the UK, what concerns me and others is that other markets keep Diesel at a more reasonable price.

We need the price in the UK reduced, not some busy body coming up with Euro Excuses or reasoning that in LaLa land, Munich or Seville we have to do this or that or pay X ammount profit and Y amount tax.

If it is possible in very many other markets to sell Diesel at lower price than Petrol or at the same or a very close price difference it is possible in the UK and that has nothing to do with caring about what you pay, Pierre in Paris or Juan in Madrid pays. The only people preventing Lower Diesel price in the UK is the Government and they could easily legislate on pricing.

Business in the UK and Workers need a boost for their joint economic needs. Bringing Diesel price down would give that a huge boost.

The constant reference to Petrol in the News rather than Diesel is what I was questioning and no one has come up with an answer for that. Last night I again filled up at a local supermarket. Out of 15 pumps in use I only saw one person buying unleaded, at a small Tesco fuel station where one of my workers wife works they sell more diesel than Petrol most days. Local business users are big customers as they are having to shave every penny they can off their costs.

And if I sold my other petrol car for one that did ten MPG more, by others reasoning should I not pay more for the petrol if we are expected to pay more for a more economical diesel compared to a petrol model.

Ref Le Crocs blowing a gasket. I probably am about ready After many years of a good relationship with a bank that has now changed with le Credit Crunch. I've paid off a business loan with personal family finances to help protect the business. We use a european warehouse that belongs to an associate British company that have moved their business out of the UK as it is cheaper to run. They pay far less for fuel and far less rent and less business rates apart from other advantages the same as friends who now run their business in France. So its not just about an isloated business expense.

 

[Stephen_374341239]

The point you all seem to be missing here. The government of the day what ever party is in power gets more in revenue from indirect taxs from the people of this island than it has ever done before.

I do not think we would be in the mess we are in now if better controls had been inpossed on city high flyers banker stock- brockers etc. Thats where the real trouble is and still goverment will not bring in controls on these speculators that are doing so much damage to the country at this time. Thay start a rumore get the share price to drop then buy buy buy at the low price so when the share price comes back up thay sell causing more rumores this needs to be STOPPED. Its doing to much damage to the country

Regards Steve

 

[ShadySadie]

Many people have been happy to live off the credit and market forces that those people bring. Plus how many politicains end up or work as advisors or directors of finacial institutions.

How many regular people who would never have thought of buying shares 40 or 50 years ago were happy to jump on the easy money bandwagon as well.

A lot of people are just as guilty. Even estate agents and home owners have jumped on the easy money band wagon with property prices being forced higher and higher.

 

[Zafiral]

Sadie

The government has to collect a specific amount of taxes to cover its unnecessary spending on spin doctors etc.

However they have a quandry - they want to stop / lower smoking which is a massive tax generator.

They are trying to lower our drinking (again another massive tax generator).

All cars on average are more economical than an equivalent model 10 years ago.

All these things lower the governments income and as they will not reduce the number of their quangos and internal advisors (probably the only votes they can get these days), and it is a vote loser to increase income tax, the money has to come from somewhere.

I know you don't want to compare costs to Europe, but what benchmark do you want to use?

In Denmark and Norway car taxes take the cost of a new small family car to around