Night heating in winter - Fanmaster mk1 or ??

[mikeduckett]

Hello - I'm new to staying in my caravan for the odd winter night. I have spent a few nights where the internal temperature has dropped to about 11 deg C - chilly but just about ok.

Now I want to spend a few nights mid winter when the outside temp will drop to 0 deg C.

I don't have 240v supply near by - but to have a solar panel & 12v battery.

I have a 1995 Fanmaster Mk1 - do folks use this with the control set on Gas Slow Fan - for some winter heat? (will it be too hot / not warm enough etc).

Or do I use the 12v battery with an electric heater and a temperature control?

I will of course experiment (Monday night) - but wondered what advice / tips others night have.

Thanks
Mike

 

[RogerL]

Hello - I'm new to staying in my caravan for the odd winter night. I have spent a few nights where the internal temperature has dropped to about 11 deg C - chilly but just about ok.

Now I want to spend a few nights mid winter when the outside temp will drop to 0 deg C.

I don't have 240v supply near by - but to have a solar panel & 12v battery.

I have a 1995 Fanmaster Mk1 - do folks use this with the control set on Gas Slow Fan - for some winter heat? (will it be too hot / not warm enough etc).

Or do I use the 12v battery with an electric heater and a temperature control?

I will of course experiment (Monday night) - but wondered what advice / tips others night have.

Thanks
Mike

In your described circumstances, I'd turn the fan off at night and rely on convected heat from the gas heater.

 

[mikeduckett]

In your described circumstances, I'd turn the fan off at night and rely on convected heat from the gas heater.

Thanks - how do I set it on convected heat with out the fan? The controller I have is Carver Fanmaster with (Off /On Select - with options of Gas Auto Fan // Gas Slow Fan // Fan // Elec Auto Fan // Elec Slow Fan).

Mike

 

[Jcloughie]

Carver, on covector only. As others have said.

A 12 volt heater, would drain the battery in next to no time with very little heat output.

John

 

[mikeduckett]

Carver, on covector only. As others have said.

A 12 volt heater, would drain the battery in next to no time with very little heat output.

John

Sorry to be dim - but how do I put it on convector only please?

 

[Jcloughie]

Just turn the fan off.

John

 

[mikeduckett]

Just turn the fan off.

John

Ok - I assume you mean turn the controller to off. Thx

 

[otherclive]

Make sure that you have a functioning carbon monoxide detector/alarm.

 

[mikeduckett]

Make sure that you have a functioning carbon monoxide detector/alarm.

I have - but thanks for the reminder.

 

[toad a caravan]

Hello - I'm new to staying in my caravan for the odd winter night. I have spent a few nights where the internal temperature has dropped to about 11 deg C - chilly but just about ok.

Now I want to spend a few nights mid winter when the outside temp will drop to 0 deg C.

I don't have 240v supply near by - but to have a solar panel & 12v battery.

I have a 1995 Fanmaster Mk1 - do folks use this with the control set on Gas Slow Fan - for some winter heat? (will it be too hot / not warm enough etc).

Or do I use the 12v battery with an electric heater and a temperature control?

I will of course experiment (Monday night) - but wondered what advice / tips others night have.

Thanks
Mike

 

[toad a caravan]

Hello - I'm new to staying in my caravan for the odd winter night. I have spent a few nights where the internal temperature has dropped to about 11 deg C - chilly but just about ok.

Now I want to spend a few nights mid winter when the outside temp will drop to 0 deg C.

I don't have 240v supply near by - but to have a solar panel & 12v battery.

I have a 1995 Fanmaster Mk1 - do folks use this with the control set on Gas Slow Fan - for some winter heat? (will it be too hot / not warm enough etc).

Or do I use the 12v battery with an electric heater and a temperature control?

I will of course experiment (Monday night) - but wondered what advice / tips others night have.

Thanks
Mike

When it becomes cold weather propane seems the preferred gas to use..lived in our caravan for 18 months..carver 3002 heater ..got inside warm then turned fire off.. it's only a small two berth Abbey GTS though..best of luck..gary

 

[ProfJohnL]

When it becomes cold weather propane seems the preferred gas to use..lived in our caravan for 18 months..carver 3002 heater ..got inside warm then turned fire off.. it's only a small two berth Abbey GTS though..best of luck..gary

Just to explain the above comment, Both Butane and Propane gases have what is called a vapour pressure which is temperature dependant and its is this pressure that pushes gas through your caravans pipework to the appliances.

If the ambient temperature falls, it reduces the temperature of your gas cylinders, and so the internal pressure also reduces. Ultimately if the cylinder temperature falls far enough the vapour pressure inside the cylinders will reduce to the point where it's not enough to overcome normal atmospheric pressure to force gas into the pipework, and your appliances will not work.

One of the major differences between Butane and Propane is their vapour pressures. At around 0C butanes vapour pressure is not strong enough to push gas into the pipework, where as Propane stops working at about -40C.

Cylinders will cool down because of the external ambient temperature, but also when you take gas from the cylinder the phase change of the liquefied gas into vapour needs heat energy which the cylinder collects from the external air around the cylinder. The quicker you use the gas the cooler the cylinder will get ( which is why roofers and road surfaces who use Propane gas will often have crystals of frost appearing on the sides of cylinder they use).

As a guide I suggest if you intend to caravan in ambient temperatures of 5C or lower you need to use Propane, otherwise Butane should be OK above 5C

 

[Ukdave2002]

If you are a bit handy, fitting a Webasto style diesel heater would be an option to get decent heat off grid. I have a Chinese copy to heat a workshop and it’s very good.

Amazon.co.uk

 

[ProfJohnL]

Further to my comment in #12,....

Some people who do not understand how LPG cylinders work have mistakenly tried to insulate their gas cylinders "to keep them warm" only to discover thier Butane gas stops working when the weather is even warmer than 5C.

The reason for this, is the cylinder needs access to the air so it can draw heat from the atmosphere to cause the liquidised gas inside the cylinder to boil and produce vapour. If you insulate the cylinder it can't get enough heat energy to drive the process.

Never restrict an LPG cylinder access to free air.

 

[otherclive]

I had a small Propex gas fuelled heater in a French touring caravan. It was very effective with low current draw. Propex are a well established British company that serve the caravan, campervan, MH and marine markets. Their CE and UKCA approvals will be valid unlike many imports from the far east. The only drawback is that the Propex heater requires a low current 12v supply for its fan and controls whereas the Carver can operate in convection mode without electric supply.

Whale HeatAir 4G - Propex Heating & Leisure

The Lightweight, powerful, space creating GAS heating solution for the Van Conversion market Suitable for caravans, motorhomes and van conversions Compact, space saving heating solution with narrow rotatable design Installed underfloor, maximising valuable living space and storage space...

propexheatsource.co.uk

 

[toad a caravan]

When it becomes cold weather propane seems the preferred gas to use..lived in our caravan for 18 months..carver 3002 heater ..got inside warm then turned fire off.. it's only a small two berth Abbey GTS though..best of luck..gary

Also propane burns hotter..butane can freeze at 0.C

 

[ProfJohnL]

Also propane burns hotter..butane can freeze at 0.C

Old wives tales

The flame temperature of propane in air is 1980 deg C while that of butane is 1970 deg C. or about 0.5% difference. - not worth mentioning.

As for freezing NO. it stops boiling at about 0C as I described above.

 

[RogerL]

Old wives tales

The flame temperature of propane in air is 1980 deg C while that of butane is 1970 deg C. or about 0.5% difference. - not worth mentioning.

As for freezing NO. it stops boiling at about 0C as I described above.

Is there a difference with cylinder-mounted regulators as propane (37 mbar) and butane (28 mbar) use different pressures with bulkhead regulators using 30 mbar for both gasses - caravan appliances are designed for the 28-37 mbar range.

 

[Buckman]

Also propane burns hotter..butane can freeze at 0.C

Butane freezes at -135C. Propane freezes at -188C. By that time you have probably been frozen stiff and beyond caring about any temperature.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Is there a difference with cylinder-mounted regulators as propane (37 mbar) and butane (28 mbar) use different pressures with bulkhead regulators using 30 mbar for both gasses - caravan appliances are designed for the 28-37 mbar range.

Historically in Europe each country set their own standardised pressures for LPG. In the UK Butane regulators were set to 11 inches water gauge (28mBar) Propane was 15 inches water gauge (37mBar) but other countries ranged from 30mBar to 50mBar. It was the move of the EU to standardise across the union to 30mBar.

However Legacy products designed for the historic pressures should still be operated at the legacy pressures unless the data plate also specifically includes the common 30mBar.

The gas regulator pressure does not change the temperature of the flame, but there are several other metrics used to relate to gas usage, and these may give the impression the burning temperature could be different. The simplest one is to use how long it takes to raise a quantity of water from 20C to 100C (Boiling) using the same burner and injector.

In practice if you use the 30mBar for both gasses (such as you find in new caravans) it will take longer to boil with propane compared to butane, which gives the impression Butane has a "hotter flame" From my comment above the actual flame temperature is virtually the same, what is different is calorific value of the gas, but also the density of gas and its viscosity, all of which interact with the injector to change the flow of gas through the injector.

Broadly speaking the old UK 28 and 37mbar pressures compensate for these differences and the heating effect of the gasses at the differential pressures are very close to each.

The biggest difference may be detected with non thermostatically controlled systems where the rate of gas burn is constant, but in proportionally controlled heating systems the differences will be largely masked by the operation of thermostat.

 

[izzy]

Fleecy blankets in summer, fleecy blankets and a thick duvet in winter and hot water bottles if required.
This system has meant the heater has not been required (except once in Bath when the temp was minus 9C)

 

[otherclive]

We rarely had heat on when in bed. Sleeping bags for us and fleeces for the dogs. But we would have heating on prior to bedtime.

 

[Hutch]

Duvets for us , heating set at 12c until 07.30 when it goes up to 20 c. Get into my elephant hood onesie to take the dog out in the early morning mist with Wellies on. Wave to othe Elephants, giraffes, back to the van for breakfast.

 

[Jcloughie]

Duvets for us , heating set at 12c until 07.30 when it goes up to 20 c. Get into my elephant hood onesie to take the dog out in the early morning mist with Wellies on. Wave to othe Elephants, giraffes, back to the van for breakfast.

As did we, well up to the onesie. Then ramp up the 23 in the evening.

John

 

[Dustydog]

Call me “Ye of little faith”,!
We never sleep with any gas appliance on. We have all the smoke and CO alarms but you just don’t know what may fail.
Winter tog duvets work very well.