No milk or meat

[ProfJohnL]

But a small amount for, say breakfast for a couple of days.

Why tempt fate?

If you know something is not supposed to be taken across a border why place your self in a position of breaking the law of that country. We expect other nationals to respect our import regulations, why do you think its morally or lawfully acceptable to break theirs. even just enough for one day....?

 

[Hutch]

Exactly what we do, well mostly, in the past we have tried to take a supply of decent bacon. That would be taking the Micky from now on. But a small amount for, say breakfast for a couple of days.

John

Switzerland , used to state you could transport, more than 1 kg of meat per person if you were travelling through.
I did see an American have cheese removed from them , about 2010, at Charles De Gaul airport as they were on going to the USA, and not stopping in the UK, only transit. If the had stayed over they would have been ok.
They had bought it in Duty free Paris CdG. EU rules again. You can buy it but can't take it.

 

[Jcloughie]

Why tempt fate?

If you know something is not supposed to be taken across a border why place your self in a position of breaking the law of that country. We expect other nationals to respect our import regulations, why do you think its morally or lawfully acceptable to break theirs. even just enough for one day....?

Absolutely, fully agree. I don’t know how you read that into my posts.

But my point was re the word ‘petty’. Therefore. In my opinion. For a group of countries who are fully aware and accept our meat and dairy standards. To apply such a rule is just that. Surely, the purpose of the long going negotiations leading to Brexit was In order to make the transition and future relationships workable in a way that suits both sides.

At NO point did I suggest we take things across borders illegally. Only that to legislate about doing so is, IMHO petty in the extreme. And probably unworkable.

Just to be clear, I do not and have not advocated doing any illegal activities. But why have legislation which is likely to put many unsuspecting and otherwise honest people in a position in which they may be inadvertently be breaking the law. It just requires a little leeway and common sense. Ah, lack of common sense, probably the cause of many a problem.


John

 

[Gafferbill]

I know for a fact that many truck drivers from the continent bring several days supply of food with them to this country and probably back again to Europe.
They don't travel without a well stocked truck larder.
Pointless picking on a few caravans and motorhomes when thousands of trucks cross to Europe and Ireland everyday of the year.

 

[Beachball]

From Europa.eu

Rules when travelling from a non-EU country
If you travel to the EU from a non-EU country, you are not allowed to bring any meat or dairy products with you. You can however bring a limited quantity of fruit and vegetables as well as eggs, egg products and honey. Restricted quantities of fish or fish products are also allowed.

Product	Amount per person	Additional restrictions
Eviscerated fresh fishery products, or prepared or processed fishery products	20 kg or 1 fish (whichever weighs most)
Fishery products from the Faroe Islands or Greenland
Goods, other than plants for planting and other than fishery products, coming from the Faroe Islands or Greenland		Their combined quantity does not exceed the weight limit of 10 kg
Plants or plant products including cut flowers		A phytosanitary (plant health) certificate is required attesting that the product is free from certain specific pests
Powdered infant milk, infant food and special foods required for medical reasons	No more than 2 kg	do not require refrigeration before opening are packaged proprietary brand products for direct sale to the final consumer that the packaging is unbroken unless in current use
Pet food required for health-related reasons	No more than 2 kg	are intended for the pet accompanying the passenger are shelf-stable (do not require refrigeration) are packaged proprietary brand products for direct sale to the final consumer that the packaging is unbroken unless in current use
Products other than those described above which do not contain meat or milk (e.g. honey)	2kg	None

Checks when entering the EU
When arriving in the EU you may have to undergo official controls by the authorities. If you are carrying any meat or dairy products, which you have not declared they will be confiscated and destroyed, you may also be fined or face criminal prosecution.

Other animal derived products and plants

You may carry animal derived products - when you are travelling in the EU. However, most EU countries have strict rules on carrying endangered animals or plants or products derived from them, and in some cases, you may need a permit. For example, you may only carry 125g of sturgeon caviar; you will need a permit if you can more than this amount.

To find out about a specific species, you should always check the EU wildlife trade reference database. You can also contact the CITES authority in your country to find out if the species you want to travel with needs a permit.

*******************

Seems petty to me for personal use. Also, I wonder if it is at all workable in the height of the season.

John

Hi Jcloughie Also thanks for this information

 

[Beachball]

if i ever get across to europe with the caravan i will be sticking to the rules

 

[otherclive]

I know for a fact that many truck drivers from the continent bring several days supply of food with them to this country and probably back again to Europe.
They don't travel without a well stocked truck larder.
Pointless picking on a few caravans and motorhomes when thousands of trucks cross to Europe and Ireland everyday of the year.

But trucks leaving U.K. have been stopped too. Dutch authorities tackled the first ferry into Rotterdam after 1 Jan 2021. It does seem crazy. My ex SIL was a HGV driver and did regular runs to Italy and back, and as you say tried to be as self contained as possible. He’s back from his job in the Netherlands installing communications infrastructure and cannot get a work permit to return. so he’s once again looking to return to HGV driving. But this time with not a high degree of enthusiasm and certainly not wanting the international trips to Europe.

 

[Johnb]

I believe alcohol can still be transported. So will probably be survivable. Assuming we are ever allowed to leave our homes of course.
mel

Only problem is that on the return I'm used to bringing back most of France's wine production!

 

[Raywood]

Not sure what the butcher we came across in France one year will do. He thought meat there was overpriced for the quality and had travelled there with his fridge full of meat from his shop.
The EU knows full well that our standards are as high if not higher than theirs and that there is no real need to impose the restrictions. The petty attitude exhibited by the Dutch is over the top and presumably the officials involved will get bored soon but once the boats are full of tourists there will not be time to do it, whenever that is.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Absolutely, fully agree. I don’t know how you read that into my posts.

But my point was re the word ‘petty’. Therefore. In my opinion. For a group of countries who are fully aware and accept our meat and dairy standards. To apply such a rule is just that. Surely, the purpose of the long going negotiations leading to Brexit was In order to make the transition and future relationships workable in a way that suits both sides.

At NO point did I suggest we take things across borders illegally. Only that to legislate about doing so is, IMHO petty in the extreme. And probably unworkable.

Just to be clear, I do not and have not advocated doing any illegal activities. But why have legislation which is likely to put many unsuspecting and otherwise honest people in a position in which they may be inadvertently be breaking the law. It just requires a little leeway and common sense. Ah, lack of common sense, probably the cause of many a problem.


John

Hello John,

Taking your last point first, Clearly what might be common sense to someone is not so common to others which is why we see so many issues when common sense is allowed to prevail.

If anyone is anticipating travelling to another country, then its good sense to review the access arrangements and restrictions. Its not up to other nations to adapt to us but us to them.

And also just because some people may have got away with taking food stuffs illegally into another country does not make it right for others to do it yet alone plan to do it.

Its not petty - perhaps they might find our attitude to such things is petty - but its the law.

 

[Jcloughie]

Hello John,

Taking your last point first, Clearly what might be common sense to someone is not so common to others which is why we see so many issues when common sense is allowed to prevail.

Its not petty - perhaps they might find our attitude to such things is petty - but its the law.

Thank you, as you now seem to be understanding the point I was making. Even though you disagree with it, which is, of course fine.

As others are now agreeing with me. IMHO this ruling is not only petty but nonsensical, unworkable and has the potential to be the bases of disagreements and over aggressive or zealous use. Leading to bad feeling. Hardly in tune with Entente Cordiale.

But hopefully, as you suggest, common sense will prevail. Just a pity it has not been used in the writing of these rules.

John

 

[otherclive]

Not sure what the butcher we came across in France one year will do. He thought meat there was overpriced for the quality and had travelled there with his fridge full of meat from his shop.
The EU knows full well that our standards are as high if not higher than theirs and that there is no real need to impose the restrictions. The petty attitude exhibited by the Dutch is over the top and presumably the officials involved will get bored soon but once the boats are full of tourists there will not be time to do it, whenever that is.

There wasn't a problem with the butcher taking the meat to France to sell as then we were members of the EU, just like we had a French stall in our local market selling cheeses and charcuterie. The problem that we have is the same as if I left a golf club. I can still play golf and drink in the bar as well as I could when a member. But that would not be possible after resigning my membership. If I still wished to play at the club I would be subject to different T&C. and increased fees, even if I could get a slot. PS I don’t play golf.

 

[otherclive]

Thank you, as you now seem to be understanding the point I was making. Even though you disagree with it, which is, of course fine.

As others are now agreeing with me. IMHO this ruling is not only petty but nonsensical, unworkable and has the potential to be the bases of disagreements and over aggressive or zealous use. Leading to bad feeling. Hardly in tune with Entente Cordiale.

But hopefully, as you suggest, common sense will prevail. Just a pity it has not been used in the writing of these rules.

John

John
But these rules haven’t just been written for us, we were a party to writing and enforcing those rules, so the only way we can seek to have them modified for us as a special case, is by patient negotiation. But there’s no certainty that would be successful.

 

[Jcloughie]

John
But these rules haven’t just been written for us, we were a party to writing and enforcing those rules, so the only way we can seek to have them modified for us as a special case, is by patient negotiation. But there’s no certainty that would be successful.

OC I fully understand that, as I feel sure that Raywood also understands the situation he highlighted.

Like anyone else. I can understand follow and remain within the law. But that does not mean that I don’t have an opinion. And in my opinion, this ruling is everything I believe it to be. Summarised by ‘petty’.

The negotiations have been on going since the Brexit vote. Let’s hope that this rule is not too indicative of others we may come up against or businesses are trying to contend with.

This topic, No milk or meat. was simply to highlight that we can’t, in future, legally go to the continent with a pint of milk and a sausage in the fridge. I am not disputing that, in fact I even provided the link to the ruling. I am not campaigning to have it altered. All I have done is provide my opinion on that ruling. Others may be happy to accept such things on face value.

I have to agree that patient negotiation is a way forward. But it should never have reached this point. Changing such things after the event is unlikely and difficult. But negotiation can be swayed by public opinion.

Neither the UK or the EU should have ended up with a situation which has the potential to put holiday makers, lorry drivers, and others in breach of the law. And give customs officers further work which, some might misuse.


John

 

[otherclive]

OC I fully understand that, as I feel sure that Raywood also understands the situation he highlighted.

Like anyone else. I can understand follow and remain within the law. But that does not mean that I don’t have an opinion. And in my opinion, this ruling is everything I believe it to be. Summarised by ‘petty’.

The negotiations have been on going since the Brexit vote. Let’s hope that this rule is not too indicative of others we may come up against or businesses are trying to contend with.

This topic, No milk or meat. was simply to highlight that we can’t, in future, legally go to the continent with a pint of milk and a sausage in the fridge. I am not disputing that, in fact I even provided the link to the ruling. I am not campaigning to have it altered. All I have done is provide my opinion on that ruling. Others may be happy to accept such things on face value.

I have to agree that patient negotiation is a way forward. But it should never have reached this point. Changing such things after the event is unlikely and difficult. But negotiation can be swayed by public opinion.

Neither the UK or the EU should have ended up with a situation which has the potential to put holiday makers, lorry drivers, and others in breach of the law. And give customs officers further work which, some might misuse.


John

The actual trade negotiations were only scheduled to start in March 2020 not after the Brexit vote. Even then they got off to a very slow start, and ended with a rush. The majority of the post vote time was spent on the Article 50 which took virtually 12 months after the vote during which time no negotiations were undertaken, as we hadn’t formally indicated our decision to leave. That was followed by the negotiations on the Withdrawal Agreement. So in actual fact the trade negotiations were the least addressed.

Brexit negotiations - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Jcloughie]

The actual trade negotiations were only scheduled to start in March 2020 not after the Brexit vote. Even then they got off to a very slow start, and ended with a rush. The majority of the post vote time was spent on the Article 50 which took virtually 12 months after the vote during which time no negotiations were undertaken, as we hadn’t formally indicated our decision to leave. That was followed by the negotiations on the Withdrawal Agreement. So in actual fact the trade negotiations were the least addressed.

Brexit negotiations - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

No doubt correct. But has no affect on my opinion.

Makes me think though.
Was this an EU requirement?
Was this a UK requirement?
Or was the easy way out taken to revert to world type rules?

I have no idea. But I do know that it would take minimal foresight to understand the issues this might cause. And totally without any advantage for either side.

But, whatever the time frame, the result is still petty. Especially as we were continually promised that we would have an agreement which was not too intrusive on movement.

OK, to travel without dairy or meat products is no big thing in the great scheme of things. But it will be an inconvenience. And totally unnecessary. But just my opinion.
I imagine travellers will arrive at the ports on either side desperately trying to dump small amounts of perfectly good produce.

Again just my opinion. If the rule said something along the lines of:

“Only sufficient meat and dairy product to last for 48 hours can be carried”.

John

 

[ProfJohnL]

Thank you, as you now seem to be understanding the point I was making. Even though you disagree with it, which is, of course fine.

As others are now agreeing with me. IMHO this ruling is not only petty but nonsensical, unworkable and has the potential to be the bases of disagreements and over aggressive or zealous use. Leading to bad feeling. Hardly in tune with Entente Cordiale.

But hopefully, as you suggest, common sense will prevail. Just a pity it has not been used in the writing of these rules.

John

No I don't agree with the point. It is never right to deliberately plan or try to evade a lawful regulation, however much you might find it "petty". There are lawful ways in the UK to get your MP to raise the matter so Gov't might reconsider, but we have to accept what other countries do.

I don't think the access rules are "Petty". They were usually put in place to protect the food standard's and safety of the country.

Ok, there may be some political issues as well, but such rules would not have been put in place without some significant justifications.

Annoying may be, but petty NO.

I have never suggested that "common sense" will prevail. Common sense is usually everything but sensible.

 

[Mel]

Well Mel, that opened a can of worms - but maybe you can't take those with you either!! View attachment 1115

I know. Not what I intended at all. Was going to quip that Vegans will be feeling smug. Glad I didn’t.
me

 

[Beachball]

if we ever get to France I will go to a hypermarket so we have some food and alcohol for our stay

 

[Jcloughie]

No I don't agree with the point. It is never right to deliberately plan or try to evade a lawful regulation, however much you might find it "petty". There are lawful ways in the UK to get your MP to raise the matter so Gov't might reconsider, but we have to accept what other countries do.

I don't think the access rules are "Petty". They were usually put in place to protect the food standard's and safety of the country.

Ok, there may be some political issues as well, but such rules would not have been put in place without some significant justifications.

Annoying may be, but petty NO.

I have never suggested that "common sense" will prevail. Common sense is usually everything but sensible.

I really don’t know how I can get my point across to you. Please please tell me just how have I suggested that myself or anyone are deliberately planning to evade the law. Over and over again I have agreed that this is the law and I will abide by it. Your suggestion that I am deliberately planning to break the law is totally wrong and very insulting. Just where to you read that into my text. Seriously please let me know.

Yes, it is true that I think it is petty. But that does not follow that I will attempt to evade it. It’s just an opinion. An opinion which I can, have and do substantiate. It is MY opinion. Please respect it as I respect (but do not agree with), yours.

Regarding common sense prevailing these are your words.

”Taking your last point first, Clearly what might be common sense to someone is not so common to others which is why we see so many issues when common sense is allowed to prevail.”

I have an opinion, that’s all, nothing more. Who would have thought that to put that into a post would be so controversial. You have your opinion, please be graceful enough to allow others to have theirs.


John

 

[Parksy]

No I don't agree with the point. It is never right to deliberately plan or try to evade a lawful regulation, however much you might find it "petty". There are lawful ways in the UK to get your MP to raise the matter so Gov't might reconsider, but we have to accept what other countries do.

I don't think the access rules are "Petty". They were usually put in place to protect the food standard's and safety of the country.

Ok, there may be some political issues as well, but such rules would not have been put in place without some significant justifications.

Annoying may be, but petty NO.

I have never suggested that "common sense" will prevail. Common sense is usually everything but sensible.

I really don’t know how I can get my point across to you. Please please tell me just how have I suggested that myself or anyone are deliberately planning to evade the law. Over and over again I have agreed that this is the law and I will abide by it. Your suggestion that I am deliberately planning to break the law is totally wrong and very insulting. Just where to you read that into my text. Seriously please let me know.

Yes, it is true that I think it is petty. But that does not follow that I will attempt to evade it. It’s just an opinion. An opinion which I can, have and do substantiate. It is MY opinion. Please respect it as I respect (but do not agree with), yours.

Regarding common sense prevailing these are your words.

”Taking your last point first, Clearly what might be common sense to someone is not so common to others which is why we see so many issues when common sense is allowed to prevail.”

I have an opinion, that’s all, nothing more. Who would have thought that to put that into a post would be so controversial. You have your opinion, please be graceful enough to allow others to have theirs.
John

The two of you are going to have to agree to disagree.
Both of you have offered your opinions, so further points and counters are futile and not needed.
If you really must score points from each other please do it off forum.

​

 

[Damian]

I think this topic is getting stuck in "who is shouting loudest" mode and quite frankly it is getting boring and ridiculous.
The simple facts are that different rules came into force when the UK finally separated from the EU and that includes what can and cannot be moved between borders/over borders.
Now, whether you like it or not,,thats how it is and regardless of individual thoughts, that is how it is staying, so either suck it up or simply dont go abroad !!!!!!



Late edit,Parksy just beat me to a reply.

 

[Jcloughie]

The two of you are going to have to agree to disagree.
Both of you have offered your opinions, so further points and counters are futile and not needed.
If you really must score points from each other please do it off forum.

​

I think this topic is getting stuck in "who is shouting loudest" mode and quite frankly it is getting boring and ridiculous.
The simple facts are that different rules came into force when the UK finally separated from the EU and that includes what can and cannot be moved between borders/over borders.
Now, whether you like it or not,,thats how it is and regardless of individual thoughts, that is how it is staying, so either suck it up or simply dont go abroad !!!!!!



Late edit,Parksy just beat me to a reply.

Thank you both. I was getting the feeling that my simple and heart felt opinion was being disrespected . Not healthy for a sensible discussion.

John

 

[Damian]

OK,,,,,Enough is enough!!!!!
I have just received a Report regarding this topic and a request for "direct action",,well, I have taken direct action and dismissed the report out of hand.

I have also removed specific names from the above post as it will never be tolerated to have topics brought to personal levels.

Any more such postings will result in the author being banned from the Forum......BE WARNED>

 

[Parksy]

Thank you both. I was getting the feeling that my simple and heart felt opinion was being disrespected . Not healthy for a sensible discussion.
John

Don't interpret Damian's and my own interventions as support for your point of view John.
Your discussion is neither sensible or healthy as far as we are concerned.
Be warned.
The point scoring will stop, or we will stop it.