No water from taps after cold snap; Whale pump still running

[PatrickD]

So, I'm at my wit's end. After the very cold snap before Christmas last year, I can't get water out of the taps or shower in the caravan (Bailey Unicorn Seville 2011). The heating was on low during the big freeze (and the water heater sits right next to the Whale AK0814 pump under the bunk). A water barrel was attached, but I didn't ever try to draw water while the weather was cold just in case it had frozen in the water container. [I use the caravan as my office during the day].

After the freeze, and when the temperature had increased, I switched on a tap, the pump came on and threw out a little bit of water and quite a lot of brown flakey bits. Then nothing. The pump still runs. No water.

I've checked the outside water fittings (a pipe into the water container with a filter on the end which connects by a socket into the wall of the caravan). I've replaced the rubber washers on the socket too. I've also tried pulling water from the internal water tank, in case the problem was the external pipes. Again, the pump runs but no water appears - just a bit of airy spluttering when any tap is open, and a few more brown flakes!

I took the pump head apart and cleaned it (it wasn't very dirty at all) and looked OK. I tried again. Nothing. No water. So I rang Whale who suggested I try replacing the pump head. I fitted that today - still no water, just spluttering from the taps, just a Tsssssssss sound and the occasional gurgling (both when the internal water tank and external barrel are connected).

I checked the impeller of the motor, it's turning fine and so should be driving the new pump head. I can find no leaks in the pipework. It's very weird. I wonder whether the new Whale pump head was faulty (but that doesn't seem likely). When I run the pump (briefly) with no water pipes connected to it, there's very little suction from the inlet and nothing much from the outlet either.

The Aldi heater still works fine for the heating (an anti-freeze based system).

I'm out of ideas, and getting quite frustrated by the whole thing...!. Any thoughts would be really helpful. Thanks

 

[GaryB]

To rule out a blockage remove the shower head, close all taps apart from the shower and blow hard down the flexi pipe with the tap on cold then hot. Drain everything down first annd open the hot water tank drain. I do this to purge the system of water at the end of the year and I would have thought it’d show you if there’s any restrictions in the pipe work as the “brown flakes” doesn’t sound good, almost as if somethings failed through corrosion?

 

[Buckman]

Maybe there is a burst pipe and the water is going somewhere else in the caravan?

 

[Gozza2]

Sorry if this is a bit obvious, but have you checked that the hot water drain valve is closed (and not blocked with something so it's left partially open even though it looks closed)?

 

[Mel]

I am not technically minded, so apologies if this is a bit basic. We had a problem of no water coming through the taps. Turned out the filters at the ends of the taps were clogged up with limes scale. Wouldn’t explain why your shower not working I suppose but may be worth checking especially given the brown flaky bits.
Good luck
Mel

 

[Beachball]

if it me i would get a AWS Mobile caravan engineers to have a look he might be able to solve it

 

[Dustydog]

I’m with Gary B . I get the same at the start of a new season. An airlock! Back blowing usually works . Once I did connect a Mains water supply and purged the entire system . It worked.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Patrick and welcome to the forum,

I am not familiar in the detail of the Whale AK0814 pump, but from your description of its location and it has a suction port and Whales web site which says it can run dry with no ill effects, it suggests it's a diaphragm type pump. This is essentially good news as its less likely to be damaged by frost (ice expansion) especially as you have replaced the pump head, but it does mean you need to be looking elsewhere in the pipe work for the problem.

Diaphragm pumps use positive displacement, and produce enough suction to automatically prime and draw water from the barrel or tank. but if as you tell us there appears to be little suction, it either means there's a significant leak in the drawing pipework, or the pumps output pipework is constricted.

The fact you can't get water (either hot or cold?) anywhere, means the problem is most likely fairly close to, but downstream of the pump in the cold water pipework.

For these systems to work there has to be some Non Return Valves NRV's or Check Valves) in the pipework. My initial suspicion is one of these may have failed and jammed closed preventing all water flow.

However, If an experienced caravan technician were able to inspect the caravan first hand, they might pick up on other clues and make a better educated guess as to where the problem lies.

If you have the time and inclination, I suggest follow the downstream cold pipe from the pump to the first fitting, separate the connection and see if you then get water flow to that point, and so along the pipe run, when you find you don't get water flow, you will know the fault must lies with fitting just before your open test point.

 

[PatrickD]

To rule out a blockage remove the shower head, close all taps apart from the shower and blow hard down the flexi pipe with the tap on cold then hot. Drain everything down first annd open the hot water tank drain. I do this to purge the system of water at the end of the year and I would have thought it’d show you if there’s any restrictions in the pipe work as the “brown flakes” doesn’t sound good, almost as if somethings failed through corrosion?

Thanks GaryB, I'll give that a try. I'm hoping the brown flakes are just lime scale or something.

 

[PatrickD]

Maybe there is a burst pipe and the water is going somewhere else in the caravan?

Thanks. I don't think there's a burst. No water is moving through the clear pipes to and from the pump, and there's no leakage under the sink and in the bathroom.

 

[PatrickD]

Sorry if this is a bit obvious, but have you checked that the hot water drain valve is closed (and not blocked with something so it's left partially open even though it looks closed)?

Thanks. It's definitely closed when I try to pump water. I'm not sure how I would check if it's staying partially open.

 

[PatrickD]

I am not technically minded, so apologies if this is a bit basic. We had a problem of no water coming through the taps. Turned out the filters at the ends of the taps were clogged up with limes scale. Wouldn’t explain why your shower not working I suppose but may be worth checking especially given the brown flaky bits.
Good luck
Mel

Thanks. I hadn't thought of that. I'll give it a go.

 

[PatrickD]

if it me i would get a AWS Mobile caravan engineers to have a look he might be able to solve it

Thanks. It may well come to that.

 

[PatrickD]

I’m with Gary B . I get the same at the start of a new season. An airlock! Back blowing usually works . Once I did connect a Mains water supply and purged the entire system . It worked.

Thanks Dustydog. I'll give this a try.

 

[PatrickD]

Hello Patrick and welcome to the forum,

I am not familiar in the detail of the Whale AK0814 pump, but from your description of its location and it has a suction port and Whales web site which says it can run dry with no ill effects, it suggests it's a diaphragm type pump. This is essentially good news as its less likely to be damaged by frost (ice expansion) especially as you have replaced the pump head, but it does mean you need to be looking elsewhere in the pipe work for the problem.

Diaphragm pumps use positive displacement, and produce enough suction to automatically prime and draw water from the barrel or tank. but if as you tell us there appears to be little suction, it either means there's a significant leak in the drawing pipework, or the pumps output pipework is constricted.

The fact you can't get water (either hot or cold?) anywhere, means the problem is most likely fairly close to, but downstream of the pump in the cold water pipework.

For these systems to work there has to be some Non Return Valves NRV's or Check Valves) in the pipework. My initial suspicion is one of these may have failed and jammed closed preventing all water flow.

However, If an experienced caravan technician were able to inspect the caravan first hand, they might pick up on other clues and make a better educated guess as to where the problem lies.

If you have the time and inclination, I suggest follow the downstream cold pipe from the pump to the first fitting, separate the connection and see if you then get water flow to that point, and so along the pipe run, when you find you don't get water flow, you will know the fault must lies with fitting just before your open test point.

Thanks ProfJohnL. I'll give this a try. It's weird that the pump (which is the diaphragm type as you say) doesn't appear to have any suction even with no pipes connected at all, and that's with the new pump head.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Thanks ProfJohnL. I'll give this a try. It's weird that the pump (which is the diaphragm type as you say) doesn't appear to have any suction even with no pipes connected at all, and that's with the new pump head.

If the outlet from the pump is blocked it will put back pressure on the diaphragm, and reduce its vacuum power.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I'm sorry,I didn't notice your comment about "no pipes connected" This changes the diagnosis: Its almost certainly the pump. As I pointed out I'm not familiar with the details of the model you have, and as such I don't know what parts are contained in the "head" but lack of vacuum either suggests the built in valves in the pump aren't closing, or the mechanism isn't creating the correct pumping action.