While our Lunar was under warranty, I had to take it 30 miles up the M42/M1 for servicing and warranty work - I certainly noticed twitchiness due to very low noseweight, probably about 50 kg - unlike most contributors here, the noseweight stays quite low when loaded for a holiday so now we use a 35 litre storage box at the front between the seats, filled with bulk food like long-life milk and tinned food - this gets the noseweight up to 95 kg and tows more smoothly.
That’s an ideal situation being able to put weight in the front area, my last van was nose heavy and at first I felt quite uncomfortable having to put load in the rear areas, not made better since I removed rear bunks not required too. But she towed absolutely fine at the cars 75 kg.
We have an upgraded mattress on the transverse island bed so it lowers the nose weight, however the front bunk seats have also been upgraded to a heavier foam so thought it would counter balanced, but not!
I have measured the noseweight of my caravan with the hitch lowered and raised about 60mm and the variance from the nominal height was about 3kg in both cases. That's hardly going to make or break an outfit. Besides, 60mm is quite a lot and certainly more than the deflection in any spring operated noseweight gauge.
Instantaneous fluctuations will probably be a good deal more than that. For similar applications we in the industry worked on peak values about ten times the nominal value. That would equate to a noseweight variance from about 800kg to -700kg, albeit only for a split second.
I have never seen any dealer or policeman faff around with bathroom scales to determine the nose weight of most trailers.
After all bathroom scales are known to over read!
Mine have been playing up for years!
I’ve used this Reich electronic gauge for ten plus years. Once a year is enough. The old Milenco spring was so insensitive you could change the reading by 20 kgs with your little finger🤪.
All measurements need a test to prove both are correct or wrong. Using Kev’s bathroom scales and the Reich I know their readings are within 2 kgs. That’s fine with me. We rarely change our loading arrangements so only use the Reich at the start of the season. Note the Reich (and maybe others?) has two models: SA and TA.
A very important factor but not one to become overly obsessive about.
www.southdownsmotorcaravans.com
All measurements need a test to prove both are correct or wrong. Using Kev’s bathroom scales and the Reich I know their readings are within 2 kgs. That’s fine with me. We rarely change our loading arrangements so only use the Reich at the start of the season. Note the Reich (and maybe others?) has two models: SA and TA.
A very important factor but not one to become overly obsessive about.
Reich Double Axle LED Towbar Load Control Gauge
Reich's LCD nose weight gauge. Simply put the TLC onto your tow-bar, hook-up your caravan and check the digital reading.
www.southdownsmotorcaravans.com
A number of posts have made comments regarding the dynamic loading that towing can produce on a hitch etc. There is no getting away from the fact the effect of dynamics does radically increase the the instantaneous load on the hitch assembly. As Lutz has pointed out the loading can be many time greater than the static loading, but it is usually only an instantaneous shock load which in most cases is followed by similar return loading. Vehicle manufacturers should be well aware of these vibration loadings and will have made appropriate design decisions accordingly.
Some test work the company I worked for in the 1980's used MIRA to measure the dynamic loads produced in a caravan when it was towed around one of MIRA's test tracks. The result indicated that hitch vibrations regularly hit 5G with peaks in the order of 8G. G in this case represents the accelerations associated with the vibrations compared to acceleration due to Earth Gravity.
In simple terms this means that the mass on the hitch of the car would actually momentarily produce the effect of the mass multiplied by the G value of the vibrations. in other words a 100kg nose load would have the effect 500 to 800kg on the hitch. The vehicle manufactures will be full aware of these types of load uplifts and they will have designed the equipment accordingly.
The danger of exceeding the static load is the excess load is also multiplied so it will certainly erode if not exceed the designed peak dynamic loadings.
Its totally impractical for all drivers to take their outfits to MIRA and get then to check the real dynamic loadings of their outfits, so the pragmatic approach is to set safe maximum static load limits, which can be relatively easily checked such as has been described in this thread.
Comments about the dynamic loads may be of interest, but they don't change the reason for using static load values as the way to establish maximum safe static values.
Some test work the company I worked for in the 1980's used MIRA to measure the dynamic loads produced in a caravan when it was towed around one of MIRA's test tracks. The result indicated that hitch vibrations regularly hit 5G with peaks in the order of 8G. G in this case represents the accelerations associated with the vibrations compared to acceleration due to Earth Gravity.
In simple terms this means that the mass on the hitch of the car would actually momentarily produce the effect of the mass multiplied by the G value of the vibrations. in other words a 100kg nose load would have the effect 500 to 800kg on the hitch. The vehicle manufactures will be full aware of these types of load uplifts and they will have designed the equipment accordingly.
The danger of exceeding the static load is the excess load is also multiplied so it will certainly erode if not exceed the designed peak dynamic loadings.
Its totally impractical for all drivers to take their outfits to MIRA and get then to check the real dynamic loadings of their outfits, so the pragmatic approach is to set safe maximum static load limits, which can be relatively easily checked such as has been described in this thread.
Comments about the dynamic loads may be of interest, but they don't change the reason for using static load values as the way to establish maximum safe static values.
Given, the reality that we only really need to know the nose load to within 5 kg + or - ,and you do not exceed your tow bar or rear axle limits the height of the tow hitch will only change the nose weight if the caravan is very short and has a lot of weight high immediately above the axle.
The original post was from someone new to caravaning and just wanted recommendations on how best to measure the nose weight.
Sometimes I get the feeling that we loose site of what the original question was and that threads get taken over by too much technical discussion which scares away newcomers.
Many of these posts have not engaged or been addressed to the OP but are between other members.
Here we are at post #25 and the OP has gone quiet. There may be a genuine reason for that or maybe they've been overwhelmed by what a seemingly straight forward question has resulted in.
Sometimes I think we need to take into account that maybe a more pragmatic approach to answering the question is needed. If you want a more technical in depth discussion this can be done in a separate thread.
I hope the OP can make sense of what's been posted so far and filter out enough of the posts to be able to make a decision.
It's been said many a time. Keep it simple.
Sometimes I get the feeling that we loose site of what the original question was and that threads get taken over by too much technical discussion which scares away newcomers.
Many of these posts have not engaged or been addressed to the OP but are between other members.
Here we are at post #25 and the OP has gone quiet. There may be a genuine reason for that or maybe they've been overwhelmed by what a seemingly straight forward question has resulted in.
Sometimes I think we need to take into account that maybe a more pragmatic approach to answering the question is needed. If you want a more technical in depth discussion this can be done in a separate thread.
I hope the OP can make sense of what's been posted so far and filter out enough of the posts to be able to make a decision.
It's been said many a time. Keep it simple.
There's a wide variety of opinions. Yes, that makes choosing more difficult, but I like thorough research and I also like learning. So all very interesting and all good. So far I like the look of the Milenco. I also like the look of the Alko Premium Jockey Wheel, which appears to kill 2 birds with one stone, i.e. high quality nose weight gauge and jockey wheel, in one. I think it deserves a separate thread.
I bought a very inexpensive Maypole one, a friend uses the bathroom scales method and compared with mine on his van - very close readings.... He'll do it again for me in the future for sanity sake if I ask him.
I load the caravan more or less identically for outings and only re-check if something alters, maybe I'm a bit lapse (did it last when changed the gas bottle.) I've been guilty of convincing myself I need to buy expensive stuff without reason before. This is the same as the nose gauge I have. https://www.carparts4less.co.uk/p/m...jhOHPCjcnPNQ2BmEhIBKRRf7cWn4xx1RoCHzoQAvD_BwE
I load the caravan more or less identically for outings and only re-check if something alters, maybe I'm a bit lapse (did it last when changed the gas bottle.) I've been guilty of convincing myself I need to buy expensive stuff without reason before. This is the same as the nose gauge I have. https://www.carparts4less.co.uk/p/m...jhOHPCjcnPNQ2BmEhIBKRRf7cWn4xx1RoCHzoQAvD_BwE
From reports on this and other caravan forums, I don't think the ALKO Premium Jockey Wheel had favourable reviews. I cannot remember the reason why, but a Google search should bring up some reviews.
I have done Google searches and have not found much in the way of reviews, that is why I have created a separate post on here: 'Alko Premium Jockey Wheel', to see if any members have personal experience of using one.
Thanks for all your advice, information and opinions - I have learned a lot thanks.
My tentative learnings are:
Milenco
My tentative learnings are:
All measurement equipment needs be re-calibrated to maintain accuracy. The issue is how often and how much £?
Using accurate bathroom scales to roughly check calibration of a nose weight gauge seems to be a good enough DIY solution to me
In the interests of practicality I am content to ignore the impact of hitch head height on measurements
The most important thing seems to me to be a consistent method of measurement and an understanding of the variables and limitations of the chosen method and equipment
I would be happy with a Milenco or an Alko Premium Jockey Wheel (at a bargain price).Milenco
They say their gauge can be used up to 1,000 times before it needs re-calibrating
2kg tolerance seems OK to me
Lightweight
Convenient to carry and store
Respected brand
Reasonable price new and used
Alko Premium Jockey WheelWould kill 2 birds for me: better quality jockey wheel for motor mover + nose weight gauge
Crown profile on tyre for hard surfaces and wide deep ribbed for soft surfaces
No need to take or store a nose weight gauge
Heavy duty and high quality
Respected brand
Adjustment calculation for position of jockey wheel is not a problem for me
Thanks again guys
Kingsley,I think you have got it 100%, taken it all in and seen all the positives and negatives, and a very nice thing is that you have come back to the forum with your thoughts , thanks for that, glad the forum has helped you.
An issue with the ALKO jockey wheel noseweight is that it may need calibration quite often as it will be activated every time the jockey wheel is used? At least with the Milenco you use it once or twice a year as every time you load up the same way it will not make any difference and will not require calibration as often.
Of course the other issue is measuring nose weight on a perfectly level surface. Sometimes the surface may look level but it could be slightly sloping in either direction with the knock on effect of increasing or decreasing the nose weight albeit only by a kg or two. Not many of us have access to a perfectly level surface i.e. level concrete floor but who cares if the nose weight is couple of kgs out as long as it is not seriously over?
Of course the other issue is measuring nose weight on a perfectly level surface. Sometimes the surface may look level but it could be slightly sloping in either direction with the knock on effect of increasing or decreasing the nose weight albeit only by a kg or two. Not many of us have access to a perfectly level surface i.e. level concrete floor but who cares if the nose weight is couple of kgs out as long as it is not seriously over?
I really think that the calibration issue is being taken a bit too seriously. Even if the scales go off by, say, 5kg in the course of time and that's quite a lot, I would challenge anyone to be able to detect any difference in the way the outfit handles by a change of that order, all other conditions remaining equal. Mine has to change by at least 20 to 30kg before there is any really noticeable difference.
I can't recall when or where it was done, but a collection of different compression spring nose load gauges were compared, and the results were a real eye opener not only were many wildly out interns of accuracy, figures for some were in the order of 20 kg out, but some also had very poor repeatability of measurement. However the one brand that did produce better repeatability and over all accuracy was the Milenco, I have doubt it is well made, but it also carries a premium price to do a job which a set of bathroom scales can easily match at a fraction of the price, and most homes already have them.
My wife reckons our bathroom scales are really inaccurate, but British Airways and others seem satisfied with their output. 😂
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I'm with you on this one,why waste money on something when you don't need to, dedicated noseweight guages can also be inaccurate.
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