Noseweight as part of MTPLM

[arbamus]

Hi all,

Just put the car and van over a dynamic weighbridge which involves driving over a metal plate which weighs each axle load and then adds them to give gross train weight. The vans axle gave a reading of 1150kg (MTPLM 1250). The noseweight was approx 75-80Kg. My question is whether the noseweight has to be added to the axle weight to calculate the weight of the van in terms of mtplm used?

Thanks,

Andy

 

[RogerL]

Yes when considering the MTPLM of the caravan but no when considering the towing limit of the car.

In your case, you have an extra 20-25 kg you can increase the caravan by and still be less than 1250, assuming that the car's towing limit exceeds 1170-1175.

I hope your caravan wasn't empty when you weighed it, you're a bit stuffed if it was!

 

[jacky3]

the noseweight of the caravan has nothing to do with the mptlm of the van,the noseweight will always be there,depending how you load the van to its maximum 1250 kgs is how you will derive at the correct noseweight

 

[jacky3]

MTPLM

 

[arbamus]

Thanks Roger,

We were on our way back from a weekend away so it was pretty full.

I was carrying about 30kg of travel cot and buggies which will go in the car next time so I should have plenty of kgs left for extra clothes etc when we go away for two weeks in the summer (can't wait)

My car is a VW Touran so I still have potential 300Kgs capacity in the car.

Thanks,

Andy

 

[rayc]

the noseweight of the caravan has nothing to do with the mptlm of the van,the noseweight will always be there,depending how you load the van to its maximum 1250 kgs is how you will derive at the correct noseweight

klarky, I think I understand what you are saying but for practical purposes the weight of the caravan is the sum of the weight of each axle plus the nose weight at the time it is weighed.

 

[jacky3]

klarky, I think I understand what you are saying but for practical purposes the weight of the caravan is the sum of the weight of each axle plus the nose weight at the time it is weighed.

right then,scenario or two,caravan is maximum weight at 1250 kgs,all load is weighted at the front hence a noseweight of 150 kgs,then all load is weighted at the back hence noseweight of 20 kgs. explain how you now in both circumstances come to your explanation of noseweight been part of the mtplm

 

[rayc]

klarky, I hope that Lutz is reading this as he can put it into words much better than me.

Perhaps in your example the sum of the weight on each wheel will increase as the weight is moved to the rear?

It seems to me that if you put the whole of the van on a weigh bridge, with the jockey wheel down, that the actual weight will be the sum of each wheel plus the jockey wheel.

 

[RogerL]

Klarky's wrong - If you put a caravan on a weighbridge, not hitched to a car, with 2 (or 4) roadwheels and jockey wheel touching the bridge deck then the total weight MUST NOT exceed the MTPLM.

 

[jacky3]

put the caravan level,on steadies,jockey wheel up,that is the true weight of the van

 

[jacky3]

Klarky's wrong - If you put a caravan on a weighbridge, not hitched to a car, with 2 (or 4) roadwheels and jockey wheel touching the bridge deck then the total weight MUST NOT exceed the MTPLM.

thats what i said,exactly noseweight wont matter,regardless what the noseweightis,the weightof the van aint going to change

 

[Lutz]

RogerL is right and Klarky wrong. The MTPLM is the total weight of the caravan and the total weight comprises axle load and noseweight. What Klarky is referring to is not the MTPLM but the towload (the towload limit is what the car manufacturers specify). The noseweight is not part of the towload but treated as part of the total vehicle weight of the towcar.

 

[Lutz]

put the caravan level,on steadies,jockey wheel up,that is the true weight of the van

To determine the total weight of the caravan (MTPLM) it will not be hitched up to the car. The jockey wheel will have to be down and resting on the weighbridge at the same time.

 

[jacky3]

To determine the total weight of the caravan (MTPLM) it will not be hitched up to the car. The jockey wheel will have to be down and resting on the weighbridge at the same time.

lutz,

whether the jockey wheel is down or up,the weight of the caravan is NOT going to change,whether the front OR back of the van is heavily loaded giving different noseweight indications,the weight of the caravan is NOT going to change,so how can it be said that the noseweight is part of the load.as far as i'm aware,tell me if i'm wrong,the mtplm is the laden mass( MAXIMUM WEIGHT of the VAN that can legally be towed).you load your van to its maximum,distributing the weight to achieve the correct noseweight for your vehicle.yes,the noseweight is detramental to what you can legally load the car up to,but it has nothing to do with the mtplm of the van as was indicated in the reply by roger.

am i right or wrong??????

 

[Lutz]

No, Klarky, you've still got it wrong. The MTPLM is the laden mass of the caravan and this laden mass includes the noseweight. The towload limit that the car manufacturers specify, on the other hand, is only the maximum axle load of the caravan excluding the noseweight because the noseweight has already been accounted for in the GVW of the towcar. Otherwise, one would be counting the noseweight twice.

 

[jacky3]

CAR I AGREE WITH

so what you are saying about the nosewieght being part of the mtplm :-

if the caravans mtplm is say 1300 kgs mtplm, being 1000 kgs unladen,thats a possible load of 300kgs you can load the van with.so what you are saying is if the noseweight is 100 kgs,you must only load the van up with 200kgs of gear.

100+200+1000 = 1300

??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

 

[RogerL]

No - 1000 unladen + 300 payload = 1300 laden (MTPLM).

The noseweight will depend on the weight distribution of the unladen caravan and positioning of the payload. Moving payload around inside the caravan will affect the noseweight but won't affect the laden weight.

 

[Lutz]

Roger has tried to explain it, too. If the MTPLM is 1300kg, then it is irrelevant whether the noseweight is 100kg and the axle load 1200kg or the noseweight 50kg and the axle load 1250kg, for example. It is always the sum of noseweight and axle load which makes up the MTPLM.

 

[jacky3]

this is what i've been saying all along but you have said i was wrong,please make your minds up

 

[jacky3]

look,

1300 laden

if you were to take this van fully laden(1300kgs)to be weghed,it should weigh at 1300 kgs(2axles 650kgs each axle,providing weight is distributed evenly)right or wrong??

noseweight is 75 kgs,then this would then have a mtplm of 1375 kgs,which is not legal.am i right at this point??

 

[Lutz]

I think you are going round in circles. If the MTPLM is 1300kg and the axle load is exactly that (or 650kg per axle in the case of a twin axle) then the noseweight would have to be zero. Otherwise, you would be exceeding the MTPLM.

However, I think I see what you are getting at. If we stay with your example, if the max. tow limit specified by the car manufacturer is 1300kg, then the car may tow a caravan with an MTPLM of 1375kg (assuming a 75kg noseweight).

 

[MikeP]

Look at it another way. If you have loaded the van to the 1300kg max and the noseweight is 75kg, then the weight on the axle(s) would be 1225kg. The way you are calculating it, you are counting 75kg of the van's weight twice. I think.

 

[rayc]

If we go back to the original question which was "Do I have to add the noseweight to the axle weight to calculate the weight of the van in terms of the MPTLM", can we all agree that the answer is YES?

 

[mcghee]

If your caravan was weighed while hitched to your car it would weigh its noseweight less than if it was unhitched. Simliarly the car would be the 'vans noseweight heavier.