Novice first time buyer stung by damp

[Badmangarn]

Hi Guys,

I recently bought my first caravan, a Swift 540, 2011. I had a service today and could cry as the engineer said that it had damp on the front section, at the top from the top window above the main 3 windows and damp across the both back ends above the floor up to the wheel arch.
He said it would cost £3500 to repair. Ive already paid £8500 for the van I I can’t sell it in knowing the problems it has.
Does the repair sound high or am I looking at that much money?
Gutted!

 

[Damian]

How recently did you buy it and where from? Dealer or Private?

 

[xtrailman]

I got stung the same way. ist caravan i bought for pea nuts privately and sold it ok in the same condition, it was so old it had a foot pump for the single tap, but because it was built in the old frame way it was possible to keep drying out the front seams where the damp could get in while towing.

Second one i bought from a dealer and paid a "lot" for it at 5 years old. When i came to trade it in at the same dealer for a new one 2 years later i was told it was damp in the front.

After that i bought myself a damp meter and damp tested myself.

I would ask the dealer to give you a price against a new one if you can afford too, it might be the better option.

 

[Beachball]

Get a second opinion to check it

 

[Raywood]

I am sorry to hear of your problem.
Did you buy from a dealer or a private seller? If from a dealer than you should have rights under the CPA as the product was faulty assuming the damp was present when you bought it, from the extent you mention it looks as though it was.
If bought from a private seller then it is very much a case of buyer beware. I would agree a second opinion should be obtained and you should also ask whoever serviced it to confirm in writing if they believed the caravan was suffering from these damp spots before you bought it. This is needed to make a claim under the CPA.
The repair figure sounds possibly a bit high to me but you need to know far more about the extent of the damage to say any more. If the problem is bad then it could be reasonable. The only way to check it is a second quote, but with serious damp you always have the problem that the extent of the damage is hidden and the quote is often a best guess, subject to amendment once the damp areas have been opened up. We do not know how serious this is on the information given.
Damp is measured in percentage terms, anything under 20% should not be a problem, but above that it needs attention and the higher the reading the worse the problem.
If you bought from a dealer I would look at the advice on the Citizens Advice web site to understand your rights.
If you bought it privately, unless you asked about damp and they said there was none then I doubt you have any rights there.
I hope this helps.

 

[otherclive]

Difficult to advise if the quote is anywhere near accurate but should you need a new rear panel due to cracking then that alone with drying out and some remedial work would be a good £2000 + Agree the need for a second survey.

 

[audiorob]

I agree with the consensus above. A lot depends on your purchasing arrangements. If you bought from a dealer 'recently' then from the report you have given us it would appear that the leaks are widespread and longstanding and you should have some come-back. If you bought privately then it is definitely buyer beware, however you might just have some recourse if it was advertised as 'free from damp'. Is there evidence of servicing, I.e. paperwork, or the collection of dated stickers on the drawbar faring? If it was claimed damp-free then you might expect this sort of reference to back up the claim. Is there any evidence of previous repairs - extra mastic or sealants on the window rail or awning rail - this would also indicate that the problems were longstanding and known prior to sale.
Wish you the best of luck!

 

[Badmangarn]

I bought it privately. It was described as ’stunning example’.

 

[Badmangarn]

Thanks guys. I will get a second opinion. Im
based in South Wales. Do any of you have any recommendations.

I have looked at the sales of goods act under the , not as described. I’m going to try a small claims action under principle.

 

[otherclive]

I bought it privately. It was described as ’stunning example’.

You now need to read the Citizens Advise or Which advice on the CRA 2015 legislation as it relates to private purchases. But you should be aware that the extent of this legislation is less comprehensive for private purchases than for buying from a dealer. Do you have the sale advert retained? Can you recall your conversation with the Seller? Was damp discussed/mentioned. Were you accompanied by anyone who could also recall the conversations. Did you acquire any previous service or repair documents. Has the Seller said anything on social media about what a great deal they got for the damp caravan? You’d be surprised at how some people drop themselves in it.
Establish your position then do you have access to legal advice through the Clubs, or trades union. But be prepared for the long haul. Alternatively as suggested above you might prefer to “stop loss” and accept an offer by one of the traders that advertise in the Club magazines. Can be seen in the online editions if you are a member.

Good luck whatever direction you chose.

 

[Badmangarn]

 

[otherclive]

Thanks guys. I will get a second opinion. Im
based in South Wales. Do any of you have any recommendations.

I have looked at the sales of goods act under the , not as described. I’m going to try a small claims action under principle.

One of the Clubs if not both, under their offers or shops area on the website gives links to independent caravan inspections with a discount.

 

[Badmangarn]

How recently did you buy it and where from? Dealer or Private?

Private

 

[camel]

Thanks guys. I will get a second opinion. Im
based in South Wales. Do any of you have any recommendations.

I have looked at the sales of goods act under the , not as described. I’m going to try a small claims action under principle.

If the Prof comes on tonight he will put you completely in the picture what your rights are,

 

[otherclive]

I notice that the damp survey did not show percentage levels. Any reason why not ? Make sure any second survey does show percentage levels as they would have a material effect on likely remedial work.

 

[Parksy]

Have you contacted the vendor to complain about the damp?
If you did, what was their reaction?
I know of someone who had their Bailey on a seasonal pitch.
They bought a new caravan from a dealer and sold their Baileyin good faith privately.
The Bailey was found to have damp, the buyer contacted the vendor who was horrified.
He refunded the money and took the Bailey back to sell as 'repairable' for less money.

 

[Badmangarn]

I have contacted the seller and he’s not playing ball at all. I must say, I really appreciate all the replies. It’s nice to feel part of a decent forum.

 

[otherclive]

Thanks and good luck. Let us know how you get on.

 

[Damian]

Sadly this is an all too often scenario.
It will not help you right now but there are certain "rules" when looking to buy a caravan, especially a private sale.

1. NEVER trust the advertisers description, they want to sell the van, probably knowing it has the kind of issues which you have found.

2. ALWAYS ask to see the service records, if none are available then in all probability it has not been serviced.

3. ALWAYS insist on seeing ALL the appliances, water system and electrics working, never take their word "that all is working well", in a lot of cases it isn't!!!!

4. Unless you know exactly what and how a van should be, and what needs checking, get a mobile engineer to give it a pre purchase inspection.If the owner is not keen to allow this,walk away, he is hiding something.
It will cost you about £100 or so, maybe more, but could save you thousands.

One word of warning though, there is a "service" which the Caravan and Motorhome Club have advertised on their site, but the prices are way too high for what you get, and there is no guarantee that the engineer is a AWS registered engineer.

It is far better to contact engineers direct and you will get a better price, and a better inspection.

 

[Beachball]

Keep us updated how you get on

 

[ProfJohnL]

Camel has suggestested I will be able to tell the OP his rights. Inpoint of fact several others have already done it.

With all purchases new or second hand, to the greatest extent it is up to the buyer to be satisfied that the purchase will do the job its intended for and will be fit for purpose. You should ask all the relevant questions and get the answers before you agree to the purchase. " Buyer Beware"

The seller of new goods will probably rely on the manufacturers advertising and sales material, which if the goods are new should be accurate. but with secondhand items, you do rely on the honesty of the seller, which is where the Consumer Rights Act, ( Not the Sale of Goods Act which is no defunct) comes into play, which requires sellers to be honest.

The act does not differentiate between private or traders it simply refers to sellers, so in theory it does apply to all sales to end users including private sales, though its easier to chase a business than an individual.

If you have evidence the seller was deliberately dishonest in their description of the goods, you have a strong case to have the contract annulled and to have your money back. BUT, I foresee a difficult path ahead.

Consider:-
Carefully think about what you were told by the seller. Did they claim the caravan was dry? or did they not make any statement about the dampness or dryness? Whilst coloqually a description of it being "stunning" would lead you to think it is dry, but it's not a definitive description.

You will need to be able to show that on the balance of probability the damp was present at the point of sale, and hidden from your reasonable inspection, and the seller knew about the problem and deliberately did not declare it to deceive you.

There is also the possibility the seller was genuinely not aware of the damp and thus could not have told you.

You say it was a private deal, if you can find evidence the seller was regularly selling caravans (e.g. frequently repeat adverts in papers) then you might be able to claim he was actually a trader, and is thus subject to trading standards, and the full force of the CRA.

I'm sorry but unless you can show any of the above, I fear there is little hope of success against a private seller. It may be cheaper to swallow your pride and get the caravan repaired than to pursue a claim against the seller.

 

[Parksy]

Just as a matter of interest, did you get some sort of receipt or anything written down when you paid for the caravan.
The usual thing written is 'Sold As Seen' which would make any legal action difficult for you.
If by some slim chance the vendor had written or implied that the caravan was sold 'In Good Condition' there would be more chance for you.

 

[Raywood]

I hate to argue with the Prof, but I am afraid that the legal explanations of the CPA do make it clear that it does not apply to private sales.
Looking at the report, it refers to the damp as being visible, which would suggest that it is serious. It should show the percentage figure, which would help us more to understand the extent of the problem.
It clearly was not a stunning example which should give you grounds for an action against the seller but pursuing private individuals is far more difficult than companies. I do wonder given the description of "a stunning example" if this is someone pretending to be a private seller, when in fact they are more than that. That phrase is the sort of thing they use and if so he will be a slippery customer.
Did you get the paperwork to show that the seller has owned the caravan for some time and that it had been serviced? Looking back what were your impressions of the person involved?
You could try the firms who advertise to buy caravans in the magazines, but frankly once they realise the extent of the damp, I cannot see you getting anything of any consequence.

 

[otherclive]

Even if the CRA2015 doesn’t cover private sales an individual can still pursue a claim using the Small Claims Court. These days the online process is very straightforward but from my experience this one might not go through as the online procedure is more geared to a situation where there is quite clear cut arguments. This one would probably go to a hearing. I lost such a hearing years ago when I bought a Renault 16 which had a three month old MOT which I subsequently found to have side sills made of Cataloy and newspaper. Despite all my evidence etc that the seller must have known as he’d owned it for some while I lost the case but did not have the sellers costs awarded against me. The Court accepted that it was unusual for a car with a three month old MOT to have that amount of corrosion but explained that the case wasn’t about the legality of the MOT which had been issued by a legitimate testing station. I reported the test station but then decided to let life move on. This was back in the late 70’s.

 

[xtrailman]

A damp test with out percentage readings is pointless.

Most timbers will naturally contain moisture or even surface condensation, this can vary with atmospheric conditions readings above 30% require action, Swift will not normally approve any repair for damp unless the reading is over 30%.

Readings over around 20% require regular monitoring.

The rule of thumb learnt from personal experience is never buy used with out testing, preferably by yourself.

My SIL once asked me to check over a caravan a chap at work was selling as damp free, I found one rear panel completely damp at 60%, the probes went though the board with out effort, all look dry on the surface.
Also found 3 damp areas in the front panel, the killer was when a under floor inspection showed a hole in the front corners surrounded by rotten timber.

As others have said trust nobody...