Number Plates

[Mike_374315756]

My wife and I are hoping to use my parents-in-law's caravan (they are Dutch and the caravan is insured in Holland). We hope to keep the caravan in the UK but also use it in Europe. However, we are a little confused about what to do about the number plate. Dutch caravans have their own number plate, unrelated to the towing vehicle. The Dutch caravan insurance company say that if we were to remove the Dutch plate we would invalidate the insurance. The DVLA, however, say that the number plate on the caravan must be the same as the towing vehicle.

We could, I suppose, insure the caravan ourselves and use the UK plate, but it's a Beyerland and is not easy or cheap to insure over here. Could we drive around with both Dutch AND UK number plates? Nobody seems to be able to advise us.

Any help would be gratefully received!

 

[rayc]

There is no requirement in the UK to register a caravan so all you have to do is put a plate on that is the same as the towing vehicle. This would also presumably apply when in France for example when for all intents and purpose it is a UK van. I don't know about Holland but I guess all you need to do is put its Dutch plate on when over there.

 

[rayc]

There is no requirement in the UK to register a caravan so all you have to do is put a plate on that is the same as the towing vehicle. This would also presumably apply when in France for example when for all intents and purpose it is a UK van. I don't know about Holland but I guess all you need to do is put its Dutch plate on when over there.

PS, There is no requirement to insure the van in the UK to enable the van to have UK plates. If it is a Dutch rule that to comply with the insurance you have to retain the Dutch plates then that is that.

 

[Guest]

As mentioned you can just put the towing vehicle number on the back and that is fine., Insurance is another matter and you should really insure it through a UK Company, other wise if you have an accident you could end up losing a lot of money. Beyerland vans are recognised as European so insurance should not be a problem. The cost will be pretty much basd on age and value.

 

[GrahamSouthBrum]

Perhaps some one will correct me if I am wrong.

Are you importing the caravan into the UK, if so you may have to pay import duty on it.

Just a thought.

 

[Lutz]

If the caravan has Dutch plates and is taxed and insured in the Netherlands, then there is nothing to stop you towing it with those number plates in the UK, so long as the caravan is not to be considered a permanent import. As you say, removing the Dutch plates and replacing them with those on your car would invalidate Dutch tax and insurance. The requirement in the UK that car and trailer have the same number plate applies only if both vehicles are British.

The alternative would be to temporarily de-register the caravan in Holland and tow with UK plates while you are using it, but then you would be left with only the third party insurance that your UK car insurance provides unless you take out separate insurance coverage on the caravan. The administrative effort and additional cost to keep swapping plates and insurance seems to me to be more than it's worth, so I'd leave everything as is.

It is very common on the Continent for lorries and their semi-trailers to be registered in different countries and therefore carry number plates of different nationalities.

In some respects your problem is the easier one compared to the reverse condition - a UK caravan towed by a Continental car. As Continental car insurances don't cover the trailer, like in the UK, and trailers themselves do not require separate third party insurance in the UK, this would leave the caravan totally uninsured, which is illegal in any country.

 

[Lutz]

Perhaps some one will correct me if I am wrong.

Are you importing the caravan into the UK, if so you may have to pay import duty on it.

Just a thought.

There's no import duty within the EU

 

[rob_jax]

Mike,

As someone who works in Holland, and on our Eriba forum we have a number of owners who have imported their Eriba from Holland - the key to this whole situation is "We hope to keep the caravan in the UK"

If your parent's-in-law have given up caravanning or have bought a different caravan, and ownership is transferring to you, and the caravan will be permanently stored in the UK - then the caravan should be de-registered with the local Dutch equivalent of the DVLA and a UK number plated fitted (and UK insurance obtained - which will be the only significant cost)

If your parent's-in-law still retain title to the caravan, and it will be returned to Holland for the caravan MOT test (otherwise the Dutch insurance will become invalid), then the Dutch plates should stay in place.

You would need to inform the Dutch insurers that the caravan is on extended holiday in the UK - and that the family of the owners are using it - so there may be a premium to pay.

Finally, you should be prepared for the occasional Police stop asking why you have a Dutch registered caravan

Robert

 

[rob_jax]

And in continuation...

Your idea of displaying two number plates - not obscuring one another - but vertically above one another - might make the police happy or be less likely to stop you

It should also be obvious to the various camera operators who you are...

 

[Lutz]

I'm not sure what conditions Dutch insurers apply, but German insurance companies do not have to be informed in which country the insured vehicle is normally kept. Their coverage is automatically EU-wide and normally one receives the 'Green card' as part of the package without asking.

 

[Mike_374315756]

I'm not sure what conditions Dutch insurers apply, but German insurance companies do not have to be informed in which country the insured vehicle is normally kept. Their coverage is automatically EU-wide and normally one receives the 'Green card' as part of the package without asking.

Thanks to one and all for taking the time to reply to this thread. I was gob smacked when I saw so many responses to what, I guess, was an odd question.

In response to Lutz's question, the Dutch insurance company does need to know in which country the caravan is stored (currently the insurance has it in Holland as that's where the caravan is currently, but we'll need to change it).

The key, it seems, is whether the caravan is an import or not. But how is this defined? How long can we keep the caravan stored in the UK whilst leaving it registered in Holland?

Lutz and rob_jax seem to be in agreement with my mother-in-law, but since I have a primeval mistrust of all things mother-in-lawy I naturally just assumed she was wrong. Instead I trusted the advice of the DVLA which was that the caravan should use the plate of the towcar.

My plan now is to check again with the DVLA and emphasise the fact that the caravan is registered in Holland. I will also try the Caravan Club's legal helpline and see if they can help.

Thanks again to EVERYONE who replied!

Mike

 

[Mike_374315756]

Thanks to one and all for taking the time to reply to this thread. I was gob smacked when I saw so many responses to what, I guess, was an odd question.

In response to Lutz's question, the Dutch insurance company does need to know in which country the caravan is stored (currently the insurance has it in Holland as that's where the caravan is currently, but we'll need to change it).

The key, it seems, is whether the caravan is an import or not. But how is this defined? How long can we keep the caravan stored in the UK whilst leaving it registered in Holland?

Lutz and rob_jax seem to be in agreement with my mother-in-law, but since I have a primeval mistrust of all things mother-in-lawy I naturally just assumed she was wrong. Instead I trusted the advice of the DVLA which was that the caravan should use the plate of the towcar.

My plan now is to check again with the DVLA and emphasise the fact that the caravan is registered in Holland. I will also try the Caravan Club's legal helpline and see if they can help.

Thanks again to EVERYONE who replied!

Mike

 

[Lutz]

I don't know the exact definition of a permanent import but as far as I know it applies if the foreign vehicle is used by a resident of that country for over one year or by a resident of the country of temporary importation for over 3 months, e.g. a Dutchman can tour the UK with a Dutch car for a year but a UK resident (even if he is Dutch) only 3 months before it has to be registered in the UK. The period is automatically interrupted and starts all over again if the vehicle is taken out of the country again and returns later. My experience is that things aren't taken quite seriously because, some years ago, I used my car with UK export plates in Germany for 18 months before I finally got round to registering it there.

I'd be a bit reluctant to have two sets of number plates on the caravan because that's just asking for the police to stop you to see what that's all about. So long as the caravan has Dutch plates, any police car coming up from behind will automatically assume that the towcar is also Dutch and probably won't bother to check and if you are caught on camera from the front, nobody will ask questions what's on the back of the caravan, either.

 

[Mike_374315756]

I don't know the exact definition of a permanent import but as far as I know it applies if the foreign vehicle is used by a resident of that country for over one year or by a resident of the country of temporary importation for over 3 months, e.g. a Dutchman can tour the UK with a Dutch car for a year but a UK resident (even if he is Dutch) only 3 months before it has to be registered in the UK. The period is automatically interrupted and starts all over again if the vehicle is taken out of the country again and returns later. My experience is that things aren't taken quite seriously because, some years ago, I used my car with UK export plates in Germany for 18 months before I finally got round to registering it there.

I'd be a bit reluctant to have two sets of number plates on the caravan because that's just asking for the police to stop you to see what that's all about. So long as the caravan has Dutch plates, any police car coming up from behind will automatically assume that the towcar is also Dutch and probably won't bother to check and if you are caught on camera from the front, nobody will ask questions what's on the back of the caravan, either.

Does this mean that a caravan stored for most of the year in, say, France would need to be registered in France? If needs be we can leave the caravan in Holland but it means we will be unlikely to use it for weekend jaunts.

For information, we just got the following response from DVLA:

****

Thank you for your email.

As you are aware, the UK does not register trailers/caravans

independently.

However, they are required to display on the rear of the vehicle, the registration number of the vehicle that is towing them at the time.

If your car is registered in the UK, you would be able to have a number plate made up by taking your V5C registration certificate to an authorised supplier.

With regard to other countries, I can only advise you to check with their licensing authorities.

Regards

****

Not very helpful on the face of it. We are now going to ask again if it is ok to display both plates as this would seem to appease both the DVLA and the Dutch insurance co.

 

[Lutz]

Does this mean that a caravan stored for most of the year in, say, France would need to be registered in France? If needs be we can leave the caravan in Holland but it means we will be unlikely to use it for weekend jaunts.

For information, we just got the following response from DVLA:

****

Thank you for your email.

As you are aware, the UK does not register trailers/caravans

independently.

However, they are required to display on the rear of the vehicle, the registration number of the vehicle that is towing them at the time.

If your car is registered in the UK, you would be able to have a number plate made up by taking your V5C registration certificate to an authorised supplier.

With regard to other countries, I can only advise you to check with their licensing authorities.

Regards

****

Not very helpful on the face of it. We are now going to ask again if it is ok to display both plates as this would seem to appease both the DVLA and the Dutch insurance co.

So long it's stored it's of no interest to the authorities because it neither has to be taxed nor insured.

The reply you received from the DVLA does not appear me to be absolutely precise. Being a German resident, my caravan has a different number plate to my car (because both are registered seperately). If I now tow my caravan to the UK, the DVLA reply would require me to add another number plate (or replace it by one) displaying the details shown on the car's number plate. That cannot be the case.

 

[Bezzer]

A caravan is a trailer full stop, calling it a vehicle is of no significance that's not defined only a MOTOR vehicle is. Doesn't matter where it came from it's got to have the towing vehicle's registration displayed correctly. Don't and you leave yourself wide open to prosecution and with the increased van checks you see being done it is a distinct possibility.

 

[Cerbera]

Stating the bleeding obvious here maybe, but why not just stick your Uk plate over the top of the Dutch one with sticky fixers? That way you have satisfied the Dutch by not removing the plate, and the Brits by dispaying your reg number?

The Brits aren't interested in the Dutch plate so no need to display.

 

[Lutz]

A trailer is also a vehicle, Bezzer, it's obviously not a motor vehicle, though.

Frankly, driving around with two number plates is, I think, asking to be stopped by the police. They're bound to be curious. I reckon that if you were to be touring with two number plates, constant checking by the police would soon get on your nerves.

To get down to the whole purpose of having a valid number plate at all, it is to be able to trace the owner/holder/driver and to be able to confirm that tax (where appropriate) has been paid and insurance coverage exists. All those conditions would be fulfilled even with Dutch plates.

 

[rob_jax]

Hi guys,

Generalising, in the rest of Europe a braked trailer is seen as a vehicle and is independently registered and MOT tested.

Our experience of people buying Eriba caravans in Holland and bringing them to the UK has meant that there are two ways to do this:

1. Buy the caravan from the Dutch owner, fit the UK number plate and drive home - In this case the caravan never actually leaves the Dutch DVLA system and never really becomes yours - the original owner could still lay claim to it...

2. Buy the caravan from the Dutch owner, fill in the paper work from the Dutch DVLA (easy if you visit their DVLA office), be issued with a temporary number plate and tow it home - then fit the UK number plate. That's the right way to do it - and it costs a few cents extra...

Mike's case is more difficult in that it appears that the caravan will retain it's Dutch registration, Dutch insurance, but be kept for long periods in the UK - and that's not a problem - it just needs to be returned to Holland for the MOT tests.

Unless Mike can get a real special deal on the ferry, or needs to go there with the caravan anyway - then once the Dutch insurance lapses, de-registering and obtaining UK insurance would be cheaper than tugging it back to Holland.

Robert

 

[Lutz]

There seems to be some misconception as to what is a vehicle. A vehicle is any device or piece of equipment used for the transport of people, goods or equipment. It does not have to be self-propelled, i.e. a motor vehicle, nor does it have to be registered to qualify as a vehicle. A bicycle is also a vehicle. A caravan is therefore very definitely a vehicle.

 

[Lutz]

Although I am not familiar with the Dutch CVLA system, I very much doubt whether Robert's first suggestion would work. If the Dutch system is anything similar to the German one, so long as the caravan is on record, it must be either taxed in its old home country or reported with the equivalent of a SORN. Otherwise, the previous owner will continue to get requests for payment of tax and demand notes, with the possible sanction of a court order.

 

[Lutz]

Although I am not familiar with the Dutch CVLA system, I very much doubt whether Robert's first suggestion would work. If the Dutch system is anything similar to the German one, so long as the caravan is on record, it must be either taxed in its old home country or reported with the equivalent of a SORN. Otherwise, the previous owner will continue to get requests for payment of tax and demand notes, with the possible sanction of a court order.

Sorry, ....Dutch DVLA system .... not CVLA

 

[rob_jax]

Hi Lutz,

It's happened quite a few times - people have returned from Holland with an Eriba Touring caravan without going through the de-registration process.

But you're right, I don't know what the seller did to sort out the mess a year or so later. And one was bought from a dealer like that...

But in truth, that was five years ago - and I guess the seller was expecting the new owner to do the transfer, rather than just ignore it...

Robert

 

[Bezzer]

A trailer is also a vehicle, Bezzer, it's obviously not a motor vehicle, though.

Frankly, driving around with two number plates is, I think, asking to be stopped by the police. They're bound to be curious. I reckon that if you were to be touring with two number plates, constant checking by the police would soon get on your nerves.

To get down to the whole purpose of having a valid number plate at all, it is to be able to trace the owner/holder/driver and to be able to confirm that tax (where appropriate) has been paid and insurance coverage exists. All those conditions would be fulfilled even with Dutch plates.

A caravan is a type of "vehicle" but for use on our roads and defined under the Road Traffic Act it is a TRAILER which has to conform to the regulations concerning trailers if it's being towed by a UK motor vehicle. It's got nothing to do with the dictionary definition of a vehicle or whether it is registered under another country's laws.

 

[Mike_374315756]

I thought I should update people on what's been happening. We basically looked into two options:

1. Register and insure the caravan in the UK or

2. Sort out the number plate and Dutch insurance issues.

To cut a long and dull story short Option 2 has won the day, at least in the short term. Insuring the caravan here is still an option which we'll look into doing in the longer term but we'd need to register the caravan here first and with it currently being in my father-in-law's name that'll take time we don't have.

Option 2 had a couple of problems we had to sort out. Firstly, the Dutch insurance company said we would not be insured if we did not display the Dutch number plate. After a bit of to-ing and fro-ing, the DVLA finally confirmed to us that there is no law preventing us from displaying both plates in this country. The other stumbling block was that the Dutch insurance company initially told us that we could not tow using a non-Dutch registered car. They later changed their minds. So that's it - for the time being we will display both plates while towing in the UK (and just the Dutch plates whilst in Europe).

We realise that we run the risk of being stopped by the police, but we'll run the risk. If it's a real problem we'll look again at option 1.

Thanks again to all who read and replied to this thread.

Mike