On the way back home today

[tug100]

I am not a regular here, but was prompted to have a read on this forum after being delayed on the M1 this morning by an overturned caravan (Hymer I think) being towed by a Disco TD5. Again children involved along with 2 ambulances and 2 fire engines. Now I don't know why it happened, but I think with effort and foresight incidents like this can be easily avoided.

I have toured Europe towing large and small caravans every year for the past 10 years, incident free. I take care with loading, but also don't tow near 100%.

I applaud everyones good intentions about warnings along the worst roads but I think you are missing a point. Whilst it is great to encourage warnings to be posted, and even to warn each other about the 'bad' stretches of roads, we should all tow responsibly all of the time. We should not rely on warnings, or inside information on the roads. There are simple rules that we should stick to, like not overtaking near the summit of a hill, or on a downhill stretch, or when it is particularly windy. We should be aware of the limitations of our outfits as they all have their own towing characteristcs, and we should stay well within these limitations. Sticking to these rules would mean we could all successfully navigate all roads, with or without these 'go carefully' warnings.

The number of caravans turning over gets us a bad name. We don't want this publicity nor the regulation that would follow increasing numbers of incidents.

I know this seems like a bit of a rant, and of course everyone affected by road accidents righly deserve our concern and best wishes, but come on, put safety first, always.

Martin

 

[Dustydog]

Martin

With the best wish in the world I don't think for one minute any of us have missed the point but thank you for saying all the things we have all said before, if not on this thread then certainly elsewhere on the forum. It does no harm for the newbies to see it.

There are a number of stretches of motorway where the "hill" is not immediately apparent and have caught out a lot of people over the years. Hence for example the warnings along the M5.

There are then those stretches where the road leaves the protection of a cutting, to cross a bridge across a valley, and whoosh, a terrific side wind hits you!

It would be useful if the Authorities could issue a list of all likely causes of caravan accidents. I suspect the majority will be incorrectly inflated tyres, loading and weight ratios.

The suggestion we have all made, and Parksy has followed this up to the top at PC MAg, is still well founded and can only assist the caravanner.

Cheers

Dustydog

 

[WatsonJohnG]

On Tuesday afternoon this week our local roads were clogged as traffic came off the M6 due to an overturned caravan between J16 and J17

This stretch is not hilly so what was the cause is open to conjecture

 

[wombat1]

I thought about starting a new post, but there are many on this subject and I hope I can prompt someone to reposnd to this question.

Rather than conjecture, could anyone unfortunate enough to have suffered a roll over, jack knife or other such terrible mishap add their comment to this thraed please. Or even if you actually saw the accident occur.

I saw a rolled van and car in the central reservation of the north bound M5 yesterday whilst travelling down to Bristol fromn Birmingham. What caused it , the driver or other in consideate road users putting them in an unavidable situation?

A first hand account would help to hammer home the care we shoudl be taking.

Please no more opinions, on this thread, can we get some fitst hand accounts please.

Wombat

 

[Parksy]

Hi Wombat

First hand accounts would be very welcome but with the greatest respect forums exist in order for opinions to be aired.

As long as no forum rules are broken every opinion has validity and the potential to expand debate.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I agree with Martin as far we should, (in fact All drivers should) drive within the capabilities of the vehicle/outfit, and we should not need warning signs about dangerous curves for particular vehicle types etc.

Unfortunately the vast majority of drivers do not read and take in all the information they can get from the road conditions so timely warnings are I think appropriate. But even then many drivers still ignore the advice, (e.g. speeding) but that does not devalue the signage.

Look at what has happened recently in Suffolk with many roadside signs being stolen probably for scrap. Dangerous bends have had Chevrons removed, speed restriction signs etc.

We do need some signage, and I think the idea of a towing black-spot database is excellent. It could be produced as Point Of interest (POI) listing for Sat Navs. This is something that Sat Nav manufactures might want to consider for the next generation of units, such POI's could be automatically activated when the vehicle type and size is asked for and more extensively taken into account when planning a route.

 

[wombat1]

I'm not trying to suppress opinion, but there are already over 20 of them on this thread, what more is there more to say - do not respond to this statement thankyou.

What I really want to know is what degree of margin is there between driving safely and the very high probability for an accident to occur.

Was the driver in question in the accident I saw, doing over 70mph whilst overtaking an artic?

The accident had only occurred a couple of minutes before I passed by, and it was on level road and it was not a windy day.

THERE ARE ENOUGH opinions on this thread, can we now have some facts.

wombat

 

[Parksy]

I'm not trying to suppress opinion, but there are already over 20 of them on this thread, what more is there more to say - do not respond to this statement thankyou.

What I really want to know is what degree of margin is there between driving safely and the very high probability for an accident to occur.

Was the driver in question in the accident I saw, doing over 70mph whilst overtaking an artic?

The accident had only occurred a couple of minutes before I passed by, and it was on level road and it was not a windy day.

THERE ARE ENOUGH opinions on this thread, can we now have some facts.

wombat

So now you are the self appointed arbiter of how many members can offer their opinion on any given topic?

 

[Heethers]

The reason l posted this in the first place was to make people aware of the amount of caravan accidents this year, maybe there is not an increase but probably being reported more on the radio, how ever the main reason for the post was to try and make caravaners aware of what can happen if we don't tow safely and any positives made on this forum can only be good.

I don't know what caused the accident but it happened and has any accident it could have been avoided, their are thousands of accidents every day and only a few of them are caravans but the media seem to report these far more than the others, which l feel can only be good as it should fetch it home to all of us to tow responsibly.

I just hope that all involved in these accidents that no one was seriously hurt.

NigelH

 

[Dustydog]

When I suggested "Just a thought. Could we start a whole new section on "caravan black spots" throughout the UK"? even as an old lag I could see some benefit even for me!

We often discuss which route is best / safest. eg most prefer to avoid the A82 by Loch Lomomd.

The motorways are riddled with stretches of long downhills , and gaps where gusting cross winds blow through etc.

Preparation before departure is one of teh most important factors and the more these factors are repeated the better. There lots of new people joining this forum and they wil benefit.

Look at PC magazine over the last five years and a number of safety matters are regularly repeated , on the basis of new subscribers I guess.

I spent years investigating causes of fires etc and can honestly say my old mentor, long dead, always said listen to every opinion and do not dismiss it without full analysis. Remember the you lad who suggested deflating the tyres of a lorry stuck under a low bridge!

Thus I regret I cannot agree with Wombat's dismissal of further opinions.

Cheers

Dustydog

 

[Parksy]

Our friend Wombat is rightly curious about the actual causes of these recent accidents involving caravans and I'm sure that we'd all like to read a first hand account from those involved.

Personally I'd like to think that no forum member was involved in any untoward incidents whilst towing.

The act of contributing to and seeking advice from a caravan forum such as this demonstrates a commitment to safety and as a fellow member pointed out on another thread there are caravanners and those who have caravans.

I'd hope that this forum is used by the former. Incidentally I've received no response to the suggestion for a magazine article about this issue.

New members who own caravans and also those thinking of buying for the first time join this forum on an almost weekly basis and safety related topics bear repetition so any opinions are always welcome, that's what a forum is for.

 

[trucker]

Dustydog, is there a better way to go upto bunree. My sat nav and via michlin takes me up past loch lomond.

Im woried now!!! if so can you give me the route as ive never been this way before

Thanks

Kevin

 

[Dustydog]

Hi Trucker

Whilst not unpretty I'll never ever tow a caravan on the A82 alongside Loch Lomond unless it was a life or death thing.It's very twisty and stressful. I don't think it is any shorter time wise than the following route which I have now used for years.

M74, M73, A80, M80,M9, A84,A85,A82 and there's Bunree . Have a look at the map and you will see the route quite clearly. If you're stuck let me know and I'll give you more detail. Basically it's the Stirling, Crianlarich, Glencoe route.

The Glencoe Pass scenery is just awesome.

Just to be PC I will say I have been to Loch Lomond without the caravan and it is pretty but not as good as where you are going!

Cheers

Dustydog

 

[trucker]

Thanks mate see you there

Kevin