Hi All
Yes Merv I think you missed my point. I see the anti's as the minority. There are in fact not that many anti's on this site(when you take into consideration the people that post under double identities)as apposed to the amount that drive 4 x 4's and do not voice an opinion combined with the ones that do back their interests with postings. The only point I would perhaps agree on is that maybe Steve should not try to impress his opinion/hobby, whatever, on people that have firm contra views. He may sway the undecided but the stallwort anti's would not be and I for one respect their views.
Yes Merv I think you missed my point. I see the anti's as the minority. There are in fact not that many anti's on this site(when you take into consideration the people that post under double identities)as apposed to the amount that drive 4 x 4's and do not voice an opinion combined with the ones that do back their interests with postings. The only point I would perhaps agree on is that maybe Steve should not try to impress his opinion/hobby, whatever, on people that have firm contra views. He may sway the undecided but the stallwort anti's would not be and I for one respect their views.
Martyn, what do you mean by double identities? If you are saying that some members are posting using other names how do you know this? Even if it were true how many are there? Are they posting for or against in any debate? I dont think, unless you have positive proof of these accusations, that you can state they are 'antis' in order to try and strenghthen your case. How do we know that you, and others who are trying to impress the values of 4x4s, are not one or more of these people who have double identities?
Hi Merv
To be honest with you Merv I cannot spot the people with double identities as I am not especially 'techy' but one of my firers is,(in fact as one of his jobs he moderates forums) and spots them instantly as have others on this forum. As for being pro 4 x4 I speak as someone who finds them ideal for my type of work. I used to struggle with estate cars and vans but spent half the time getting bogged down and stuck in awkward situations. On top of that the damage done to this type of vehicle in my particular situation was costing me a fortune. I now run crew-cabs, I don't get stuck and because they are built for the job the cost saving is substantial. I in fact tow my van with a part time four wheel drive estate car so I don't necessarily advocate the use of 4 x 4 for towing. The whole point of my original posting was purely to point out that generally anti's are in the minority something I come across all the time in the job I do.
To be honest with you Merv I cannot spot the people with double identities as I am not especially 'techy' but one of my firers is,(in fact as one of his jobs he moderates forums) and spots them instantly as have others on this forum. As for being pro 4 x4 I speak as someone who finds them ideal for my type of work. I used to struggle with estate cars and vans but spent half the time getting bogged down and stuck in awkward situations. On top of that the damage done to this type of vehicle in my particular situation was costing me a fortune. I now run crew-cabs, I don't get stuck and because they are built for the job the cost saving is substantial. I in fact tow my van with a part time four wheel drive estate car so I don't necessarily advocate the use of 4 x 4 for towing. The whole point of my original posting was purely to point out that generally anti's are in the minority something I come across all the time in the job I do.
Martyn, you havent answered my question about the possible number of double identities and the fact that they may not be 'antis'.
Hi Mervyn
Two definite - admittedly of some time ago were "Sloppy Performer and "Bobby" I think. I asked the Mod to check these two out and Yep! - he confirmed they were "Spoof" Postings.
Nobody can id these idiots at the moment - this is why we are all asking for some kind of unique "log in" system.
Long overdue but it is on its way we are told. We should all respect each other views and I hope you accept the invite to at least see what we follow the rules and go greenlaning responsibly. I agree that ALL should do this but accept that a minority do not. It is the same minority type that nick cars and terrorise people - but I see no outcry that cars must be banned.
The Anti 4x4 clique is known for its ability to twist facts - ample wvidence on here as well as the fact that their website is being investigated for inciting hatred and falsification of data.
Finally - I am still undecided about your being a "Swinger" - If you are that is OK - if its a wind up then its a good one! but if true I am amazed that someone who takes the risk of exchanging bodily fluids with all the risks that that entails has the audacity to criticise what people drive!
I am no prude but you need a reality injection. Hopefully before you need a whole lot more injections of the useful "Anti" type.
Two definite - admittedly of some time ago were "Sloppy Performer and "Bobby" I think. I asked the Mod to check these two out and Yep! - he confirmed they were "Spoof" Postings.
Nobody can id these idiots at the moment - this is why we are all asking for some kind of unique "log in" system.
Long overdue but it is on its way we are told. We should all respect each other views and I hope you accept the invite to at least see what we follow the rules and go greenlaning responsibly. I agree that ALL should do this but accept that a minority do not. It is the same minority type that nick cars and terrorise people - but I see no outcry that cars must be banned.
The Anti 4x4 clique is known for its ability to twist facts - ample wvidence on here as well as the fact that their website is being investigated for inciting hatred and falsification of data.
Finally - I am still undecided about your being a "Swinger" - If you are that is OK - if its a wind up then its a good one! but if true I am amazed that someone who takes the risk of exchanging bodily fluids with all the risks that that entails has the audacity to criticise what people drive!
I am no prude but you need a reality injection. Hopefully before you need a whole lot more injections of the useful "Anti" type.
Hi Guys - I do feel the FACTS are important Stinky - relating the debate to Killing Donkeys is not just silly, it is trawling the depths of desperation to try to win people over.
That will never work - people respond to reasoned augument and debate not sensationalism.
When I go off-roading we adhere to the Tread Lightly rules and repair Footpaths, Bridleways as well as RUPPS and BOAT's in liasion with the Local Highways and Biways depts.
Mountain Bikers have been one of the significant cause of accidents - hitting walkers - and a particular sort of errosion that once starts is difficult to repair. The sharp bicycle tyre cuts through the thin layer of Peat type material that overlays the Sand and Gravel of the New Forest in a lot of areas. The rain then washes the track away. If the Bikers kept to the designated paths there would not be a problem.
Do we want all Bikers banned? - NO - Do we want responcible use? - Yes.
And finally a plea to all bikers (not motobikes) - PLEASE take care when going past horses. The number of times a bike has come flying past a horse and rider and startled the horse causing a potential incident is high. Horses prefer a warning such as engine noise - they find it hard to cope with a silent, often brightly coloured object that flys past them at speed.
Hi Guys - I do feel the FACTS are important Stinky - relating the debate to Killing Donkeys is not just silly, it is trawling the depths of desperation to try to win people over.
That will never work - people respond to reasoned augument and debate not sensationalism.
When I go off-roading we adhere to the Tread Lightly rules and repair Footpaths, Bridleways as well as RUPPS and BOAT's in liasion with the Local Highways and Biways depts.
Mountain Bikers have been one of the significant cause of accidents - hitting walkers - and a particular sort of errosion that once starts is difficult to repair. The sharp bicycle tyre cuts through the thin layer of Peat type material that overlays the Sand and Gravel of the New Forest in a lot of areas. The rain then washes the track away. If the Bikers kept to the designated paths there would not be a problem.
Do we want all Bikers banned? - NO - Do we want responcible use? - Yes.
And finally a plea to all bikers (not motobikes) - PLEASE take care when going past horses. The number of times a bike has come flying past a horse and rider and startled the horse causing a potential incident is high. Horses prefer a warning such as engine noise - they find it hard to cope with a silent, often brightly coloured object that flys past them at speed.
That will never work - people respond to reasoned augument and debate not sensationalism.
When I go off-roading we adhere to the Tread Lightly rules and repair Footpaths, Bridleways as well as RUPPS and BOAT's in liasion with the Local Highways and Biways depts.
Mountain Bikers have been one of the significant cause of accidents - hitting walkers - and a particular sort of errosion that once starts is difficult to repair. The sharp bicycle tyre cuts through the thin layer of Peat type material that overlays the Sand and Gravel of the New Forest in a lot of areas. The rain then washes the track away. If the Bikers kept to the designated paths there would not be a problem.
Do we want all Bikers banned? - NO - Do we want responcible use? - Yes.
And finally a plea to all bikers (not motobikes) - PLEASE take care when going past horses. The number of times a bike has come flying past a horse and rider and startled the horse causing a potential incident is high. Horses prefer a warning such as engine noise - they find it hard to cope with a silent, often brightly coloured object that flys past them at speed.
I have no problems with 4x4's on the road towing large trailers, must admit the chelsea tractor brigade do annoy, but as a mountain biker ( and road racer) I do get really annoyed with 4x4's when they venture off road, the ruts that the tyres leave are enourmous and make it really difficult to cycle on the paths. I see this as nothing more than serious erosion and destruction of the countryside.
I don't care even if these paths are legally open to 4x4's this is only because of outdated laws from hundreds of years ago when 4x4's were not about.
Its about time these laws were changed and leave the countryside to the people who treat it with respect.
I don't care even if these paths are legally open to 4x4's this is only because of outdated laws from hundreds of years ago when 4x4's were not about.
Its about time these laws were changed and leave the countryside to the people who treat it with respect.
Oracle, I am not a mountain biker but I can see that you have a valid point and I do agree that some of the outdated laws in this country need revising.
"Its about time these laws were changed and leave the countryside to the people who treat it with respect."
So thats the walkers out! Bikers out! anyone with disabilities out! farmers out! government out!
Seems we have another "I'm alright jack" who does not understand what, why, where.
Cannot reply to you by name as you did not post one, but I have a single question for you.
I can walk on level ground, I can walk for a short time on rough ground with leg braces. I cannot ride a horse because my bones break with ease, Can't ride a bike off road because of the lack of ability to get help if needed. Can't afford a helicopter.
So, come on clever clogs, do I not have a right to see the whole countryside? I have never caused damage and have even helped repair others damage (walkers mostly). I take my (and others) rubbish away with me and fight for the right for all to see what they have a right to.
Please consider all arguments before reply, as I am now in the mood to pick every answer to little bits and spit them back at you. I hope one day to see this sort of biggoted behavior outlawed.!!!!
So thats the walkers out! Bikers out! anyone with disabilities out! farmers out! government out!
Seems we have another "I'm alright jack" who does not understand what, why, where.
Cannot reply to you by name as you did not post one, but I have a single question for you.
I can walk on level ground, I can walk for a short time on rough ground with leg braces. I cannot ride a horse because my bones break with ease, Can't ride a bike off road because of the lack of ability to get help if needed. Can't afford a helicopter.
So, come on clever clogs, do I not have a right to see the whole countryside? I have never caused damage and have even helped repair others damage (walkers mostly). I take my (and others) rubbish away with me and fight for the right for all to see what they have a right to.
Please consider all arguments before reply, as I am now in the mood to pick every answer to little bits and spit them back at you. I hope one day to see this sort of biggoted behavior outlawed.!!!!
At the time of writing, this thread has 48 posts but none of them seem to have anything to do with caravanning. Am I in the wrong forum or something? I thought that this sort of stuff was supposed to be posted under 'Chit-chat' because that, as it says, is for (quote) 'For non-caravan issues: jokes, trivia, gossip'. The subject in question fulfils all 3 of these requirements - it's a joke, full of trivia and more than enough of gossip.
Oracle - Steve has but the main point re access for all far more eloquaently than I ever could.
But I would ask why when these old roads are just that ROADS - BYWAYS OPEN to ALL TRAFFIC do you think that you have the right to say who can use them and who cannot.
In case you have not seen the previous posts myself and others work with walkers, Riders and Horse Riders in and arround Dorset to maintain the footpaths, Bridleways BOATS & RUPPS. We work with the Hiways & Biways Dept providing labour and equipment to make sure that access is maintained for all.
I do not drive my vehicle down Bridleways or Footpaths but I am allowed to traverse the BOATS and often do it in the company of he local council Rights of Way Officer.
Even he has been sworn and shouted at by so called Ramblers that think they can go anywhere with impunity and dictate who else can use Gods earth.
Come and see what actually happens as we are trying to organise a green lane outing at the Easter meet.
But I would ask why when these old roads are just that ROADS - BYWAYS OPEN to ALL TRAFFIC do you think that you have the right to say who can use them and who cannot.
In case you have not seen the previous posts myself and others work with walkers, Riders and Horse Riders in and arround Dorset to maintain the footpaths, Bridleways BOATS & RUPPS. We work with the Hiways & Biways Dept providing labour and equipment to make sure that access is maintained for all.
I do not drive my vehicle down Bridleways or Footpaths but I am allowed to traverse the BOATS and often do it in the company of he local council Rights of Way Officer.
Even he has been sworn and shouted at by so called Ramblers that think they can go anywhere with impunity and dictate who else can use Gods earth.
Come and see what actually happens as we are trying to organise a green lane outing at the Easter meet.
ok I have read this thread and have to say it has made me smile, infact if I wasn't in the office (on lunch) I would probably have laughed out loud at how many people have demanded the right to follow their hobby as it doesnt harm the countryside but said someone elses hobby should be banned, lets face facts
Some walkers litter, damage crops, tresspass and generally upset other countryside user by telling them they should bike, drive , ride on their countryside
Some bikers scare the sh*t out of people by arriving silently and flying past. They also ride where they are not meant to and damage the walkways and when they go off track they destroy many plants.
some off roaders drive to fast in the wrong places and generally rip up lumps of the country side
Some horse riders are damn inconsiderate both on the pathways and fields as well as when on the road, riding 2 abreast on narrow lanes or riding across areas that are not designated for horses.
now before all of those groups call for my login on a spike note the firts word each time is SOME. Just because one person in a 4x4 is inconsiderate doesn't mean everyone in a 4x4 is. If everybody enjoyed their hobby in a considerate fashion then we could all have fun without escessive damage to the countryside,
and just for the record, I have no 4x4, no mountain bike, no horse and I dont go hiking but I dont see why anybody should not be allowed to do any or all of the above.
Some walkers litter, damage crops, tresspass and generally upset other countryside user by telling them they should bike, drive , ride on their countryside
Some bikers scare the sh*t out of people by arriving silently and flying past. They also ride where they are not meant to and damage the walkways and when they go off track they destroy many plants.
some off roaders drive to fast in the wrong places and generally rip up lumps of the country side
Some horse riders are damn inconsiderate both on the pathways and fields as well as when on the road, riding 2 abreast on narrow lanes or riding across areas that are not designated for horses.
now before all of those groups call for my login on a spike note the firts word each time is SOME. Just because one person in a 4x4 is inconsiderate doesn't mean everyone in a 4x4 is. If everybody enjoyed their hobby in a considerate fashion then we could all have fun without escessive damage to the countryside,
and just for the record, I have no 4x4, no mountain bike, no horse and I dont go hiking but I dont see why anybody should not be allowed to do any or all of the above.
Hi Lutz - in case you missed it this thread evolved from Steve suggesting a greenlane event at the Easter Meet next year.
As such the evolution into pro and con greenlaning as an extention of caravanning activities seems logical to me.
Especially as some of us are trying to organise it for the caravanning Easter Break!
You know if conversation where compartmentalised as you suggest and no evolution of topics allowed we would still be in the Forum equivalent of the primordial soup.
Live and let Live Lutz - please!
I don't think I missed anything. It was clear from the start that the subject was greenlaning. I'm just surprised that it gets people so worked up, either way. If I were going to discuss the matter I wouldn't go into a PC forum to do it.
Temper Temper Stinky - I think it is you that owe us an apology for your frankly disgustingly poor taste jibe re Donkey killing and drinking the blood!
Like I said earlier - if you want to be taken seriously -you have to stop the histrionics Stinky.
I do respect your views as being different to mine by you (and others) use so much silliness in your argument you dilute what you say.
Believe it or not I support the closure of some Greenlanes so that they can be repaired as some are in a very bad state of disrepair. But I want them open for ALL - The "Jeep Trails" in Spain are a model of how it should work.
Why do we want to ban everything in this country?
Do try to come along to the green laning day at Easter if we can get it organised and the weather allows.
Like I said earlier - if you want to be taken seriously -you have to stop the histrionics Stinky.
I do respect your views as being different to mine by you (and others) use so much silliness in your argument you dilute what you say.
Believe it or not I support the closure of some Greenlanes so that they can be repaired as some are in a very bad state of disrepair. But I want them open for ALL - The "Jeep Trails" in Spain are a model of how it should work.
Why do we want to ban everything in this country?
Do try to come along to the green laning day at Easter if we can get it organised and the weather allows.
Please Clive stop the offer of a free ride in the countryside, it is in a bad enough state as it is without more ruts being dug into the ground by 2.5 ton off roaders.
Sorry - won't stop - I convert more people to the reality of 4x4 use by being open and honest.
The invitation is there and if you do not accept it then more fool you.
I envy you your absolute conviction that you and only you are right - it must be a very comfortable world, that one of yours
The invitation is there and if you do not accept it then more fool you.
I envy you your absolute conviction that you and only you are right - it must be a very comfortable world, that one of yours
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