As we are going to Spain next week and I have not managed to get any more info from the CC I have bought a rear marker for a truck. It is slightly smaller at 1.13m x 22cm but it is yellow with a red border and cost
Having read that Spain requires a sign at the rear of an outfit exceeding 12m I assumed that this was the same 'Long Vehicle' sign that is used in the rest of Europe (some countries, like the UK, have additional wording to that effect). However, after Happy Lappy's reply regarding a yellow triangle on a blue background (which, now that he mentioned it, I recall seeing in Spain, too) I am not so sure any more. I can find no website with further details of the Spanish requirement so I think it is fair to assume that it isn't enforced for foreign registered vehicles.
More info on this link:
http://www.caravantalk.org.uk/index.php?showtopic=22959&st=20&start=20
(Should be all one line)
Seems CC have checked with RACE (Spanish version of AA/RAC) who state following:
Requirements apply to foreign registered vehicles over 12m overall length whether single vehicle or car+caravan.
plates must be reflective yellow with red border and no lettering or chevrons and must be aluminium not plastic self adhesive.
Link also contains a link to www.diagraph.co.uk who are said to sell plates at
http://www.caravantalk.org.uk/index.php?showtopic=22959&st=20&start=20
(Should be all one line)
Seems CC have checked with RACE (Spanish version of AA/RAC) who state following:
Requirements apply to foreign registered vehicles over 12m overall length whether single vehicle or car+caravan.
plates must be reflective yellow with red border and no lettering or chevrons and must be aluminium not plastic self adhesive.
Link also contains a link to www.diagraph.co.uk who are said to sell plates at
The information in the 'Caravantalk' forum is quite clear in saying that the need for aluminium 'Long Load' plates are required in Spain also for foreign registered vehicles. However, this is the only source of information that has made such a statement and I cannot find confirmation anywhere else on the internet. Until such confirmation is forthcoming I would seriously question its validity. I have yet to see a foreign registered caravan in Spain with such signs.
Hi again all
I came up with an idea. I phoned the Spanish Embassy on Friday. They were as much help as a chocc fire gard. All you could say about them was the lights were On but nobody was home. If they do not now the laws covering caravan in there country and what signs are needed to be placed on our caravans so we do not get into trouble touring in Spain who the Bl**** Hell would know?????????????????????????????????????????????????
This is getting all to much for me i think we will forget about Spain till they can get there act together.
I came up with an idea. I phoned the Spanish Embassy on Friday. They were as much help as a chocc fire gard. All you could say about them was the lights were On but nobody was home. If they do not now the laws covering caravan in there country and what signs are needed to be placed on our caravans so we do not get into trouble touring in Spain who the Bl**** Hell would know?????????????????????????????????????????????????
This is getting all to much for me i think we will forget about Spain till they can get there act together.
Spain has not introduced any new legislation or else one would have heard about it. Its just a question of whether existing requirements apply to foreign registered vehicles or not. However, as no mention is made of them anywhere other than in the 'Caravantalk' forum and I have never seen any foreign registered caravan with such signs in Spain, I would not be too concerned. I get the feeling that this is a case of scaremongering.
This seems to be going no where! I am going to write to the Spanish Embassy and ask them to confirm in writing (in Spanish) what the requirements are for a 12m + outfit. If I am stopped in Spain this year I will hand them the letter.... unless of course it says I must display 2 x signs etc etc..
The view here is that the law has been on the books for some time but not enforced until recently.
The problem for many of us already in Spain is that we are starring for home very soon and certainly before easter and are anxious to avoid any confrontaation with the law which could be expensive and time consuming, double bad news if you have a ferry booked.
Plates are readily available from truck repair shops etc. but the price comes as a nasty surprise - around 80 euros the pair. Whether they have realised the sudden demand or not is a moot point. An absolute rip off for what they are but they do bear some code numbers which may be of signifigance i.e. British produced plates may need the same codes.
Then the problem of fixing within the stated dimensions - may be difficult on some vans.
As a long standing CC member I shall be very unhappy if this does turn out to be bad information from them, but console myself with the fact that the price of plates is less than the fine, never mind the multiple fines which are possible on a trip right across the country.
The problem for many of us already in Spain is that we are starring for home very soon and certainly before easter and are anxious to avoid any confrontaation with the law which could be expensive and time consuming, double bad news if you have a ferry booked.
Plates are readily available from truck repair shops etc. but the price comes as a nasty surprise - around 80 euros the pair. Whether they have realised the sudden demand or not is a moot point. An absolute rip off for what they are but they do bear some code numbers which may be of signifigance i.e. British produced plates may need the same codes.
Then the problem of fixing within the stated dimensions - may be difficult on some vans.
As a long standing CC member I shall be very unhappy if this does turn out to be bad information from them, but console myself with the fact that the price of plates is less than the fine, never mind the multiple fines which are possible on a trip right across the country.
I don't think anyone has actually claimed that the law, if such exists and applicable also to foreign-registered vehicles, is being enforced. To my knowledge, nobody has been stopped by the Spanish police for failure to display any signs.
Raymac Ltd. appear to be the source of the information printed in CC magazine. However, serious doubts must be raised on the validity of this information as they mention stickers although it is quite clear that any signs required must be aluminium. The whole thing seems to me to be a sales ploy by Raymac unless they can come up with details of where they got their information.
Raymac Ltd. appear to be the source of the information printed in CC magazine. However, serious doubts must be raised on the validity of this information as they mention stickers although it is quite clear that any signs required must be aluminium. The whole thing seems to me to be a sales ploy by Raymac unless they can come up with details of where they got their information.
I contacted Raymac, they said they had been approached by the CC to make the stickers.
However now it seems that stickers are no good.
Someone on caravantalk has contacted the AA and they have seemingly confirmed the requirements.
I contacted the Spanish tourist board, their reply was useless, so i contacted them again, they have not bothered to reply.
We will be exploring France and Italy instead.
However now it seems that stickers are no good.
Someone on caravantalk has contacted the AA and they have seemingly confirmed the requirements.
I contacted the Spanish tourist board, their reply was useless, so i contacted them again, they have not bothered to reply.
We will be exploring France and Italy instead.
Another option would be to challenge the perpetrator of the information in CC magazine to name the source.
http://www.hgvdirect.co.uk/catalog/pair-marker-boards-ece70-reg-565mm-200mm-p-500486.html?osCsid=9851b755dafce2b631a9d98f3dda1869
The correct signs for the ECE regulation at
The correct signs for the ECE regulation at
If you actually had the signs that Gafferbill refers to and the Spanish police were to attempt to fine you for them not being according to the size specified in Spanish regulations, you could argue that Spain is an EU country and must therefore accept signs which fulfil ECE70 requirements. If they continue to be stroppy, I'd ask them to send the bill to my lawyer.
Hi
I have ignored this topic as I am not going to Spain anytime soon - BUT curiosity drove me to read both forums and then I checked on the Raymac website and lo and behold it states the following............
Caravan Markers - self adhesive, reflective
The Caravan Club has withdrawn its previous advice about the need for reflective stickers for vehicles/combinations where the total length of your car and caravan or motorhome is longer than 12 meters (as published in the Caravan Club magazine.For the latest advice please contact the Caravan Club - tel 01342 326 944 or Email: enquiries@caravanclub.co.uk
Sooo it is either a big red herring or someone at the CC has misread the Spanish rules???
Will now retire back into my not going to Spain so not bothered mode!!!
Alan
I have ignored this topic as I am not going to Spain anytime soon - BUT curiosity drove me to read both forums and then I checked on the Raymac website and lo and behold it states the following............
Caravan Markers - self adhesive, reflective
The Caravan Club has withdrawn its previous advice about the need for reflective stickers for vehicles/combinations where the total length of your car and caravan or motorhome is longer than 12 meters (as published in the Caravan Club magazine.For the latest advice please contact the Caravan Club - tel 01342 326 944 or Email: enquiries@caravanclub.co.uk
Sooo it is either a big red herring or someone at the CC has misread the Spanish rules???
Will now retire back into my not going to Spain so not bothered mode!!!
Alan
Out of interest just added length of my rig up and it totals 11.4 Mtrs so I can go back to sleep again without any worries!!!
Caravan Markers - self adhesive, reflective
The Caravan Club has withdrawn its previous advice about the need for reflective stickers for vehicles/combinations where the total length of your car and caravan or motorhome is longer than 12 meters (as published in the Caravan Club magazine.For the latest advice please contact the Caravan Club - tel 01342 326 944 or Email: enquiries@caravanclub.co.uk
Sooo it is either a big red herring or someone at the CC has misread the Spanish rules???
It would appear that the caravan club got it wrong by saying that the signs should be adhesive.
The signs should be made of allumimium and attached !!! to the back of the vans horizontally
The Caravan Club has withdrawn its previous advice about the need for reflective stickers for vehicles/combinations where the total length of your car and caravan or motorhome is longer than 12 meters (as published in the Caravan Club magazine.For the latest advice please contact the Caravan Club - tel 01342 326 944 or Email: enquiries@caravanclub.co.uk
Sooo it is either a big red herring or someone at the CC has misread the Spanish rules???
It would appear that the caravan club got it wrong by saying that the signs should be adhesive.
The signs should be made of allumimium and attached !!! to the back of the vans horizontally
i am confused now, i will read the postings back again. We went touring when I was a child France and Spain. Maybe i will ask my parents what it was like in the "good old olden days" xx
I agree, the situation is confusing, but that is no reason why one should get too concerned. Let's just wait until someone has clarified the issues:
Are signs needed for foreign-registered outfits which exceed 12m and if so, what requirements do these sign have to fulfil?
I have written to the German Auto Club ADAC for an authoritative answer. I have always found them as a reliable source of information.
Are signs needed for foreign-registered outfits which exceed 12m and if so, what requirements do these sign have to fulfil?
I have written to the German Auto Club ADAC for an authoritative answer. I have always found them as a reliable source of information.
Russel has identified the clause in Spanish law which seems to be fairly straightforward. A colleague has contacted Barcelona police who say that yes, it is the law, but is not "generally" enforced against foreign tourists ( lest they may not come again) but "occaisionally" an over zealous officer may do so, and since it is actually an offence, the penalty will stand.
Thus it would seem the chances of being stopped are fairly low, but the consequences painful, even given the outrageous cost of the plates.
Allthough things like this should be clear cut and common throughout the EEC, the practical fact is that they are not, and while I agree in principle that you can argue your case, got to lawyers etc. this is also not practical for the majority of us, particularly if we have a long trip home with a booked ferry, something our Continental friends do not have to contend with.
This is not the only part of the law which has been "discretionary" in the past and now coming more to the fore. Tax discs and MoTs have been checked round here (Mojacar) in random check points, plus, of course insurance certificates.
What we should do is to continue to pressure the clubs to try to get a definitive statement which - assuming it turns out that visitors are exempt as many have suggested - could be translated and available in written form to show if stopped. My insurance certificate has statements in several European languages explaining the insurance, so i see no reason why CC and others could not do the same.
Thus it would seem the chances of being stopped are fairly low, but the consequences painful, even given the outrageous cost of the plates.
Allthough things like this should be clear cut and common throughout the EEC, the practical fact is that they are not, and while I agree in principle that you can argue your case, got to lawyers etc. this is also not practical for the majority of us, particularly if we have a long trip home with a booked ferry, something our Continental friends do not have to contend with.
This is not the only part of the law which has been "discretionary" in the past and now coming more to the fore. Tax discs and MoTs have been checked round here (Mojacar) in random check points, plus, of course insurance certificates.
What we should do is to continue to pressure the clubs to try to get a definitive statement which - assuming it turns out that visitors are exempt as many have suggested - could be translated and available in written form to show if stopped. My insurance certificate has statements in several European languages explaining the insurance, so i see no reason why CC and others could not do the same.
You're right, Ray S. The example from Spain is just probably just one of the 'discretionary' laws, just like caravans over 2.3m width being illegal in the UK, but the police closing a blind eye to foreign visitors coming to the UK with wider ones. Another example would be one here from Germany. It is illegal to run out of fuel on the autobahn, but somehow I doubt whether the police here would fine a foreign visitor who gets stuck for that reason.
However, this is a very unsatisfactory situation with so many instances which are not cut-and-dried and no-one being really in the clear about what is and what is not acceptable (I purposely say acceptable and not legal). The only way one is going to clear the whole mess up is to force a decision by pushing it through the law courts, if it can't be done by any other means. Otherwise, it's pure highway robbery, just as the whim of the police officer takes him.
However, this is a very unsatisfactory situation with so many instances which are not cut-and-dried and no-one being really in the clear about what is and what is not acceptable (I purposely say acceptable and not legal). The only way one is going to clear the whole mess up is to force a decision by pushing it through the law courts, if it can't be done by any other means. Otherwise, it's pure highway robbery, just as the whim of the police officer takes him.
I have just measured my outfit & it is 11.816m my only worry now is whether spanish police tape measures are the same lenght as mine!!!!!
I have just received a reply from the German Auto Club, ADAC (my, were they quick). The confirm that there is a requirement for outfits over 12m to be marked and that this currently also applies to foreign registered vehicles, although they are negotiating with the Spanish Ministry of Transport to have it waivered for German registered outfits.
From the text (in Spanish) that they supplied it appears that it is not a new requirement, but it has been in force since December 1998. Details of the respective sizes, colours, etc. can be taken from the enclosed sketches. Note that even the thickness of the alumnium is specified!
For further information, click on this link.
From the text (in Spanish) that they supplied it appears that it is not a new requirement, but it has been in force since December 1998. Details of the respective sizes, colours, etc. can be taken from the enclosed sketches. Note that even the thickness of the alumnium is specified!
For further information, click on this link.
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