I have had a reply from the caravan club stating that in even the Spanish documents the sizes of the markers vary. They are now trying to get confirmation of this. My outfit is 11.95m as measured by a surveyor but I have bought markers for
Hi Graham, your price is veery ve4ry much lowr than any seen before but I am worried about the validity of the plates. See post from Lutz just above yours and try the link.
Would be interested to know your source of supply if you have no objection to posting it.
Ray S
Would be interested to know your source of supply if you have no objection to posting it.
Ray S
I would assume no-one would have any objections. I have just forwarded an attachment to an email that the ADAC sent me.
Thanks Lutz for some good information.
Just to show you how complicated the situation is, a Spanish speaking friend has today been into the office of Guarda Civil Garrucha and talked to the officer in charge. He assured her that plates are NOT required below a overall length of 16 metres !!
The print in your link is very useful as it answers the question as to which way up. It had been suggested that the horizintal position indicates a single vehicle i.e. the typical artic. HGV whereas verttical indicates vehicle towing trailer, but this seems not to be the case and that you can choose which of the three options you prefer.
Just to show you how complicated the situation is, a Spanish speaking friend has today been into the office of Guarda Civil Garrucha and talked to the officer in charge. He assured her that plates are NOT required below a overall length of 16 metres !!
The print in your link is very useful as it answers the question as to which way up. It had been suggested that the horizintal position indicates a single vehicle i.e. the typical artic. HGV whereas verttical indicates vehicle towing trailer, but this seems not to be the case and that you can choose which of the three options you prefer.
With regards to Ray's post:-
Just to show you how complicated the situation is, a Spanish speaking friend has today been into the office of Guarda Civil Garrucha and talked to the officer in charge. He assured her that plates are NOT required below a overall length of 16 metres !!
Do you think this could be like the Imperial Gallon in relationship to the U.S Gallon.
Only in this case, 16 Spanish Metres equates to 12 standard Metres
Or maybe with caravans and trailers getting longer, they have decided to up the overall lenght of the outfit
best regards, Martin
Just to show you how complicated the situation is, a Spanish speaking friend has today been into the office of Guarda Civil Garrucha and talked to the officer in charge. He assured her that plates are NOT required below a overall length of 16 metres !!
Do you think this could be like the Imperial Gallon in relationship to the U.S Gallon.
Only in this case, 16 Spanish Metres equates to 12 standard Metres
Or maybe with caravans and trailers getting longer, they have decided to up the overall lenght of the outfit
best regards, Martin
Perhaps it was the police officer's special offer for this week. 25% margin on all before you get fined - this week only and only in Garrucha!
I have just returned home from Spain having fitted plates rather than risking a fine - the minimum fine these days for anything seems to be 105 euros and the plates cost 83 plus some fitting.
The whole thing is completely unsatisfactory and my main complaint is with the Caravan Club who started the whole thing running but who since have been 'silent' on the matter except to add a paragraph stating such plates to be necessary to their overseas touring advice leaflet.
I have today written to CC expressing my concern (and that of others) at the way this has been handled, and particularly at the lack of information available to CC members. The Club claims to represent many thousands of members and obviously has considerable resources and I feel that they have been far from pro-active in support of long stay memebers overseas.
I hope I shall be able to post a full explanation from CC and retract the statement above.
The whole thing is completely unsatisfactory and my main complaint is with the Caravan Club who started the whole thing running but who since have been 'silent' on the matter except to add a paragraph stating such plates to be necessary to their overseas touring advice leaflet.
I have today written to CC expressing my concern (and that of others) at the way this has been handled, and particularly at the lack of information available to CC members. The Club claims to represent many thousands of members and obviously has considerable resources and I feel that they have been far from pro-active in support of long stay memebers overseas.
I hope I shall be able to post a full explanation from CC and retract the statement above.
To Ray,
I am at present in Spain and there are two Spanish caravans on site both fitted with rear markers. The CC replied to my query and said that they were trying to get clarification from Spain as they have been given two sizes of rear markers. I feel that if you have a marker board attached then the police are unlikley to measure it, I hope that I am right in that respect!
I cannot recall the site that supplied my board but I will do it when I get home.
I am at present in Spain and there are two Spanish caravans on site both fitted with rear markers. The CC replied to my query and said that they were trying to get clarification from Spain as they have been given two sizes of rear markers. I feel that if you have a marker board attached then the police are unlikley to measure it, I hope that I am right in that respect!
I cannot recall the site that supplied my board but I will do it when I get home.
Hi Graham, thanks for the info. unfortunately the CC don't seem to read this forum, as there is a posting from Lutz giving a link to the page from the Spanish rule book. This shows two sizes of plate - one size if you use two plates either horizontally or vertically and the other if you use a single plate centrally mounted.
The positions are defined, but the choice of plate appear open being shown as "Option" 1 2 and 3. I enclosed a copy of the page with my letter to CC so they should now have it.
The only problem with UK supplied plates is that they may not carry Spanish approval markings, but i agree that if you have any plates which "look" right, then you chances of being stopped should be quite small. If you are stopped for something else, however.......
Has a consensus been reached regarding this subject? I'm off to Spain this summer so would like to make sure i'm legal, though apparently the law is not new and we have been for the last two years and never sbeen stopped, maybe with the credit crunch hitting Spain badly they are looking for a bit of extra revenue!
Where can the plates be purchased from? what is the correct description to order?
Thanks
Where can the plates be purchased from? what is the correct description to order?
Thanks
I have been in touch with Caravan Club and others since the previous postings. The situation is still not fully resolved concerning the dimensions of the plates, although the dimensions posted earlier are probably OK. What is clear is that the rules apply to vehicles or combinations of vehicles (e.g. car + caravan) over 12m. overall length, and that the plates have to be "homolugated" in Spain - i.e. marked with a Spanish approval code.
Enforcement of the rules seems very variable, sometimes down to the discretion of the individual officer, and may well vary from area to area. This is not very helpful to us, but personally I would find it a very uncomfortable feeling to know I was travelling some 2000 miles through a country while breaking their law, however unreasonable it may seem. Not the way to have a relaxed and enjoyable journey.
So far as supply is concerned CC have suggested one supplier in Spain but have yet to publish the link - I suspect they may be being super-careful after the "false start" with this matter and self-adhesive plates. Also, they are understandably cautious about anything which may appear to be a recommendation of a supplier with whom they only have tenuous contact.
My only suggestion is to stop just in France (e.g. St Jean de Luz near Irun if using the west coast route) and then go across the border solo, buy the plates and return to France and fit them. With the large volume of HGV traffic at the border areas, I guess that there will be ready sources of supply - try the garages that handle HGVs etc. If not in stock they seem to be able to get them very quickly - in a couple of hours - and they are often open until 7.0pm or later.
If you look at www.caravantalk.co.uk and their overseas touring topic you will find copies of correspondence from CC to some members and the links to possible suppliers. If you look earlier on this topic you will find a posting from Lutz which gives a llink to a .pdf attachment which shows the dimensions and requirements and also indicates that the law dates from 23rd December 1998. If your Spanish is reasonable you can look at the spanish Directorate of Traffic (DGT) site - all 93 pages of requirements for plates - and see the whole can of worms.
When checking the length of your outfit, don't forget to add the towbar to the "book" figure for the car's length and then to subtract about 55mm from this to allow for the overlap between car and van when hitched up.
Finally, i suggest you arrange for the platesto be readily removable as there are some questions concerning their legality in other countries, and they do little to enhance the rear appearance of the van.
Enforcement of the rules seems very variable, sometimes down to the discretion of the individual officer, and may well vary from area to area. This is not very helpful to us, but personally I would find it a very uncomfortable feeling to know I was travelling some 2000 miles through a country while breaking their law, however unreasonable it may seem. Not the way to have a relaxed and enjoyable journey.
So far as supply is concerned CC have suggested one supplier in Spain but have yet to publish the link - I suspect they may be being super-careful after the "false start" with this matter and self-adhesive plates. Also, they are understandably cautious about anything which may appear to be a recommendation of a supplier with whom they only have tenuous contact.
My only suggestion is to stop just in France (e.g. St Jean de Luz near Irun if using the west coast route) and then go across the border solo, buy the plates and return to France and fit them. With the large volume of HGV traffic at the border areas, I guess that there will be ready sources of supply - try the garages that handle HGVs etc. If not in stock they seem to be able to get them very quickly - in a couple of hours - and they are often open until 7.0pm or later.
If you look at www.caravantalk.co.uk and their overseas touring topic you will find copies of correspondence from CC to some members and the links to possible suppliers. If you look earlier on this topic you will find a posting from Lutz which gives a llink to a .pdf attachment which shows the dimensions and requirements and also indicates that the law dates from 23rd December 1998. If your Spanish is reasonable you can look at the spanish Directorate of Traffic (DGT) site - all 93 pages of requirements for plates - and see the whole can of worms.
When checking the length of your outfit, don't forget to add the towbar to the "book" figure for the car's length and then to subtract about 55mm from this to allow for the overlap between car and van when hitched up.
Finally, i suggest you arrange for the platesto be readily removable as there are some questions concerning their legality in other countries, and they do little to enhance the rear appearance of the van.
If you travel on a British Passport, remember what it says.
"Her Britannic Majesty's Secretary of State
requests and requires in the
Name of Her Majesty
all whom it may concern to allow
the bearer to pass freely without let or hindrance, and afford the bearer such assistance
and protection as be neccessary.
Travelling in the EU on a UK passport with a vehicle and trailer/caravan from a member EU country you should not be getting hassle or hindererance from the local foreign Plods.
Keep smiling, be firm and quote them from your passport.
We've never had a problem in Spain with our outfits.
"Her Britannic Majesty's Secretary of State
requests and requires in the
Name of Her Majesty
all whom it may concern to allow
the bearer to pass freely without let or hindrance, and afford the bearer such assistance
and protection as be neccessary.
Travelling in the EU on a UK passport with a vehicle and trailer/caravan from a member EU country you should not be getting hassle or hindererance from the local foreign Plods.
Keep smiling, be firm and quote them from your passport.
We've never had a problem in Spain with our outfits.
Euro,
I agree and think we may just continue the same way as we have done for the past 2 years....
I agree and think we may just continue the same way as we have done for the past 2 years....
If Spanish or others lorries or caravanner's got hassled by the UK police for some minor difference between UK and other EU auto regs they would soon be bellyaching to Brussels.
I understand that in the UK they let foreign over width caravans use the roads without questions.
The EU is supposed to be about free trade and movement between member countries.
I understand that in the UK they let foreign over width caravans use the roads without questions.
The EU is supposed to be about free trade and movement between member countries.
Reply from the Caravan Club this morning----
Hello
Thank you very much for your recent enquiry, and please accept my apologies that your original e-mail has not been answered.
I am not surprised that there is such a large amount of conflicting information as trying to get sense out of the Spanish Authorities is very difficult and extremely slow! I will, however explain where we are at the moment:
At the present time we are still trying to confirm the size of marker boards that the Spanish police will accept, the regulations stipulate that the marker boards must be 500mm x 250mm or manufactured to ECE70 regulations, I found two companies here in the UK manufacture their marker boards to ECE70 regulations and they are 565mm x 200mm I contacted the DTG (Direccion General de Trafico in Spain) to make sure that our marker boards would be accepted by the Spanish Police and the DTG said "no the marker boards must be 500mm x 250mm" so I then looked at numerous Spanish websites trying to find the correct sized marker boards only to find that the ones you can buy in Spain are the same size as the ones in the UK! I have gone back to the DTG and asked the same question again and I am waiting for their response.
The other problem with marker boards is that you would need to remove them from the back of your caravan when driving in the UK. I have raised a complaint with SOLVIT which is an organisation set up to solve problems caused by the misapplication of EU rules in Member States, and I am waiting for their response. (Which could take 8-12 weeks).
So in summary:
Caravanners have been fined between _150.00 - _300.00 for not have the marker plates in Spain. (It has been a requirement to have them since 1998 but until the beginning of this year the law was not being enforced)
We still do not have confirmation that the UK marker boards are accepted (however I would be amazed if the Spanish police actually bothered to measure the marker boards as the discrepancy in size is only 6-5cm)
We are trying to confirm with the powers that be in the EU that the Spanish are allowed to enforce this law on visiting UK outfits
It is really difficult to give you advice, as it may well be the case that you could travel to Spain and have no problems at all, as the authorities in Spain may move on to another law and stop measuring UK outfits and issuing fines. Or alternatively SOLVIT may decide that their law is unfair. I have prepared an information sheet which I attach for you, this will be put on the internet and the magazine once we have confirmation from the DTG and a reply from SOLVIT.
I will of course put any updates in the monthly magazine but it takes weeks and weeks to get a reply from any organisation in Spain.
Please do not hesitate to contact me if you require any further assistance.
Best regards
Hello
Thank you very much for your recent enquiry, and please accept my apologies that your original e-mail has not been answered.
I am not surprised that there is such a large amount of conflicting information as trying to get sense out of the Spanish Authorities is very difficult and extremely slow! I will, however explain where we are at the moment:
At the present time we are still trying to confirm the size of marker boards that the Spanish police will accept, the regulations stipulate that the marker boards must be 500mm x 250mm or manufactured to ECE70 regulations, I found two companies here in the UK manufacture their marker boards to ECE70 regulations and they are 565mm x 200mm I contacted the DTG (Direccion General de Trafico in Spain) to make sure that our marker boards would be accepted by the Spanish Police and the DTG said "no the marker boards must be 500mm x 250mm" so I then looked at numerous Spanish websites trying to find the correct sized marker boards only to find that the ones you can buy in Spain are the same size as the ones in the UK! I have gone back to the DTG and asked the same question again and I am waiting for their response.
The other problem with marker boards is that you would need to remove them from the back of your caravan when driving in the UK. I have raised a complaint with SOLVIT which is an organisation set up to solve problems caused by the misapplication of EU rules in Member States, and I am waiting for their response. (Which could take 8-12 weeks).
So in summary:
Caravanners have been fined between _150.00 - _300.00 for not have the marker plates in Spain. (It has been a requirement to have them since 1998 but until the beginning of this year the law was not being enforced)
We still do not have confirmation that the UK marker boards are accepted (however I would be amazed if the Spanish police actually bothered to measure the marker boards as the discrepancy in size is only 6-5cm)
We are trying to confirm with the powers that be in the EU that the Spanish are allowed to enforce this law on visiting UK outfits
It is really difficult to give you advice, as it may well be the case that you could travel to Spain and have no problems at all, as the authorities in Spain may move on to another law and stop measuring UK outfits and issuing fines. Or alternatively SOLVIT may decide that their law is unfair. I have prepared an information sheet which I attach for you, this will be put on the internet and the magazine once we have confirmation from the DTG and a reply from SOLVIT.
I will of course put any updates in the monthly magazine but it takes weeks and weeks to get a reply from any organisation in Spain.
Please do not hesitate to contact me if you require any further assistance.
Best regards
Following Clive's posting, Caravan Club now have two MS Word documents which detail the requirements and include photographs of how the plates look on a caravan together with two possible UK sources of supply.#
These were sent to me in response to an enquiry, but should be available on request to members (and possibly others if you ask nicely !)
So much for harmonisation in the EEC
These were sent to me in response to an enquiry, but should be available on request to members (and possibly others if you ask nicely !)
So much for harmonisation in the EEC
Greetings,
For the benefit of all, here is a copy of the advice given by the Caravan Club (as of 13th May)
"Outfits (car and caravan or motor homes) over 12m in length must fit marker boards to the back of the vehicle to travel in Spain. The marker boards must be manufactured to ECE70 regulations and made of aluminium. You can have two boards fitted symmetrically either horizontally or vertically (565mm x 200mm) or one large board (1130mm x 200mm) the boards must be fitted between 50cm and 150cm off the ground. Marker boards can be purchased from most HGV suppliers. For advice on fitting the boards please contact your local dealer or manufacturer
On arrival"
Copied for the information of all.
For the benefit of all, here is a copy of the advice given by the Caravan Club (as of 13th May)
"Outfits (car and caravan or motor homes) over 12m in length must fit marker boards to the back of the vehicle to travel in Spain. The marker boards must be manufactured to ECE70 regulations and made of aluminium. You can have two boards fitted symmetrically either horizontally or vertically (565mm x 200mm) or one large board (1130mm x 200mm) the boards must be fitted between 50cm and 150cm off the ground. Marker boards can be purchased from most HGV suppliers. For advice on fitting the boards please contact your local dealer or manufacturer
On arrival"
Copied for the information of all.
I have just returned from Spain and saw a few Spanish caravans with the marker boards, however some were certainly under 12m. Some have two number plates one red and one white which is supposed to mean that they are over 3.500 kilos but after asking in poor Spanish the owners did not seem too sure about the law.
I bought a board from www.hgvdirect.co.uk and including postage was
I bought a board from www.hgvdirect.co.uk and including postage was
The 2 number plates on caravans in Spain have nothing to do with being over 3500kg. All trailers have their own (red) number plate in addition to the white one which is also displayed on the car. The red one always starts with an 'R' for 'Remolques', or trailer in English.
It seems clear from all the advice that to be safe from possible fines that reflective plates are required when towing in Spain with units over 12 mts long.
The problem is the plates are illegal in UK and France so what is best way of fixing the metal plates to the back of the van so they are secure but can be easily fixed before entering Spain and then removed when leaving Spain. Has anyone any suggestions. I have heard about IDL Tape being suggested but does it work?
The problem is the plates are illegal in UK and France so what is best way of fixing the metal plates to the back of the van so they are secure but can be easily fixed before entering Spain and then removed when leaving Spain. Has anyone any suggestions. I have heard about IDL Tape being suggested but does it work?
On the back of my caravan there is a 'towel rail' and I put an old bit of carpet around it then attached the marker board using three cable ties. The holes for the ties had been drilled out at home, but I read somewhere that the board should only be drilled out on the red border and not on the yellow as I have done. On arrival at the border it was easy to put on and on leaving Spain I just cut the ties.
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