Overturned caravans this weekend

[Neal_5041160]

All,

Just come back from a great 2 weeks in Cornwall, finished by a rough journey up the A30 / M5 / M42.

First was the overturned Elddis Crusader / Volvo V70 at Okehampton just in front of us ('van on it's side on the central armco - ouch!); then the overturned combination at J15 M5 (didn't see this as it was cleared when we got there but must have been bad if the sand spread over all three lanes was anything to go by); then the Discovery and Adria facing the wrong way on the southbound M42 near Tamworth having hit the central barrier hard.

All of these were a family holiday ruined never mind the cost and disruption- what do we get on the BBC? Clarkson laughing last night about how an overturned caravan is one of the funniest things, and even someone as decent as Ken Bruce smirking on the radio a few days before when the same thing was being reported by "Sally Traffic". It's easy to mock, but these are real people having personal disasters - Clarkson I can understand as he has form, but Ken Bruce - disappointed. I hope that they never have a problem in life that someone else can laugh at - oh no, perhaps I don't after all!

Morons!

Neal

 

[DeliDave]

we came northbound on M5 saturday morning (0830 ish)and saw caravan on its side southbound and what looked like a Peugot estate with towbar a meter up in the air awful (presumably)start to holiday.To be honest only looked briefly as wanted to stay on course ,couldnt have happened long as traffic only started to build up.Makes you very careful

 

[Heethers]

Ken Bruce does it every day on radio 2 condemning caravans.

Clarkson, well he is an over opinionated oaf who loves to poor scorn other peoples down fall, l wonder what he would say if it was is family involved in a motorway accident

NigelH

 

[602]

Hi NGH,

Ah, but Clarkson is a RICH opiniated oaf. The question is, are his opinions justified? Would we fight to the death to defend his right to have such opinions? And would he help you if he found you in trouble?

And No! ..... I don't know the answers to the above questions.

602

 

[RogerP]

seems to be a daily occurrance of a caravan accident reportedly causing delays.

I was travelling most of last week to my offices in Bristol from the Midlands and counted at least 7 accidents that I remember being on the traffic bulletin.

I even witnessed the aftermath of one on the M5 north. A Puegeot Estate (407 I think) towing a large Bailey van. Both facing the wrong way in lane 3 with the van on its side and cars rear end in the air.

It also looked like another vehicle had suffered damage either by result of or cause of the accident.

Unable to say who or what was at fault but the facts are a caravan accident will cause delays just because of the logistics of the clean up.

 

[Gav]

in light of the above accidents, what is most likely to cause a caravan to turn over taking the car and passengers with it?

could it be due to excessive speed?

maybe winds?

ive never experienced anything like a caravan disaster, ive felt the wind a few times on the m62 pound the side of a high van but managed to control it.

i'd like to know the warning signs. hopefully my tiny van wont be able to topple the 2.7 ton range rover but at speed things can get a grip of the most innocent looking situations!

 

[Lutz]

My guess is that either the driver reacted incorrectly at the first signs of 'twitchiness' or didn't take notice of these signs until it was too late.

 

[Heethers]

Lutz see the early post on this, under Onthe way bak home today, l am sure this was the accident l saw.

The conclusion was this was a noted accident black spot for caravans due to lane changes and the general speed of caravans negociating this blackspot.

NigelH

 

[Lutz]

Yes, but instability rarely, if ever, occurs so suddenly that it is impossible to recover from a potential accident so long as you drive with due care and foresight.

 

[Heethers]

That's what l was saying on the earlier post , but after we passed the accident caravans were coming past me as though l was stopped, l was doing 55mph which l beleive is a sensible speed, l could travel at sixty but prefer the lesser speed for safety.

The caravans that passed at speeds l judged to be in access of 60, it didn't seem to register with them the accident they passed earlier was caused by some form of instability, either driving to fast, caravan not balnced correctly, or rig not matched correctly.

We need to get this over to people or accidents like this will increase further.

 

[James3]

Travelling home westwards on the M3 towing the van at about 58 mph I was overtaken by a new type Discovery towing a big twin axle - he must have been towing at about 65 to 70 when he went by me,but as he pulled into the nearside lane the caravan wheels went into the depressions that are worn by the endless lorries in some nearside lanes - result major snake which really got bad as the driver braked - luckily I had backed right off and more importantly the other outfit recovered. But no sooner had he speeded up he was off overtaking again. I can only assume that the disco & twin axle were a good match but it seemed to me it was all down to the driver in this case.

 

[lynn_374468006]

Hi, I was towing back last weekend after a fantastic holiday in france, 55 mph, the van was properly loaded and hitched, and the back loading door plastic lock of my pageant bretagne broke (for the second time) which I consider a safety issue, and the door flew open, causing my van to snake across two lanes of the french toll road due to the air intake. Luckily I was towing with a manual land rover discovery, I was able to change down through the gears, slowing the unit down gradually and back under control after much trepidation and distress to my children. Also I hate to think what would have happened without the alko stabiliser or if I had panicked and braked. Or if in fact I was towing with my usual automatic or the road had been busy.

Just a warning to anyone else with a similar model, why dont they put metal locks on these doors?

So

 

[Chris_374453492]

Just a few things I have noted from you guys.

Speed - Does this cause instability - yes it probably does. I would like to note that when I was travelling to the isle of Wight recently, I could not believe the ammount of lorries passing me - I was travelling at 60mph then I looked at the sat nav speed and it was registering 52mph. So the man traveeling at 55 was actually doing 47 so if the man who over took him was doing a true 60 then he would appear to be travelling very fast. Just another note in France they can drive faster over there unless it has changed recently.

Also if the van is not loaded correctly this is a big contribution to snaking.

However the biggest cause of snaking in my oppinion is the rutts in the inside lane. They catch me out regular and induce a slight snake and if you are not fully prepared it can get out of hand. I have had one bad snake - it was not speed - it was not bad loading - it was the rutts that caught me out, I over compensated and made this even worse. I was lucky but I really feel that the highways agencies should take some the the blame for these accidents because of the poor state of the roads.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Ruts in the road are now a fact of life, we can't avoid them, so we must apply the necessary care to cope with them. If that means travelling slower then so be it.

You should always drive at a speed that is legal and appropriate for the road conditions.

 

[Lutz]

Overcompensation in the event of instability is all too easy to do. That's why it's best not even to try to compensate with the steering, but just to slow down.

 

[Mel]

If anyone reading this forum was in the awful looking overturn of a Bailey Ranger today on the Derby Southern bypass (A50). I hope you are all alright. I've never seen such a dreadful looking final configuration. Very Scary.

mel

 

[TimM]

The first caravan I ever towed was a fairly heavily loaded Senator Wyoming about 6 years ago. I had a very experienced caravaner sitting next to me and talking through the fundamentals of towing. Simple things like allowing for the wheels of the caravan to cut in on roundabouts. The need to watch your speed coming over brows of hills, particularly on motorways where you may have had the power on for a while and then have to completely take your foot off to avoid overspeeding going down the other side. Also the need to slow down going down steep hills. That outfit could also be blown about quite a bit, particularly from overtaking box vans and motorhomes compared to the smaller van I tow now. All things that experienced people know about but not all of them obvious to a novice. I remember thinking at the time that it was quite suprising that you could just buy a caravan and tow it without any tuition. I would not be surprised if that changes as potentialy more people take to the road with caravans.

Bailey had a test rig at one of the NEC shows not that long ago. They could control speed and loading of a moving scaled down outfit. The results were extremely interesting and completely back up what we are told about stability. Namely effects of loading correctly and speed. It also showed that there needs to be some sort of input to induce a snake, it doesn't just happen. This could be a gust of wind / bow wave off another vehicle, steering to avoid something, ruts etc. This may be why people can think they are OK and can drive for a long time in an unstable outfit before anything happens to them. If the scale model was anything to go by, it also showed that the higher the degree of instability, the less the likelyhood of recovery. I don't know how many other people saw this. As an engineer, I thought it was really interesting.

As posted here and elsewhere, the effects of towing accidents are often severe and traumatic. People say that the number of accidents involving caravans is small. I am not so sure. It has to be compared to the number of caravans on the road compared to other traffic types at any one time. If say only one in 500 vehicles on the road is a caravan then the statistics will probably start stacking up against us.

As caravans get bigger and cars more powerful and capable of sustaining higher speeds, I suspect that unfortunately the accident rate with caravans will increase.

I think most caravans are towed very sensibly, but I still would not mind it being compulsary for people staring off in caravanning to have tuition. I certainly have benefited from the experience of others and think I have probably avoided a few scrapes by doing this.

 

[colin-yorkshire]

the trouble with posts like this one is they don't reach the ones most at risk yes they are a warning to us all but the fact of the matter is a high pecentage of caravaners probably most in fact have never been on a forum or even picked up and read a van mag. they have absolutly no idea of the legal requirements or even thought of what the best practice might be just buy a van (the biggest one available) load it up then, hang it on the car and off they go, the first hint of trouble and thats it either panic or do the wrong thing.

the vans that we have seen in accidents allways seem to be new or nearly new larger types towed by something inaproprate several of which had no stabiliser at all or the accident happend during some difficult manouver,

very very rarely do you see older vans or vans towed by obviously experienced caravanners get into trouble.

and I think that goes to the heart of the problem.

as for clarkson and bruce "no comment"

 

[emmerson2]

Only once in over 40 years have I had a snake, and that was last month, caused by a slow puncture in the n/s caravan tyre. My pal travelling behind says it was very scary! I wouldn't know, I was too busy aiming for the widest bit of road! Simply by obeying the rules and taking both feet off the pedals to allow the outfit to slow down natuarally brought it under control very quickly, without any further drama.

Apparently the lorry driver who was on my nearside read the situation quickly and moved across to the centre lane to form a rolling road block, fo r which I was very grateful. The outfit is 1979 Royale and 1994 Range Rover classic. Graphic proof that a heavy towcar and correctly loaded van can be controlled in a snake, but I don't want to do it again, thank you!

 

[Lutz]

Not only a heavy towcar and a correctly loaded van can be controlled in a snake, but any outfit, no matter how unfavourable the conditions. It does require immediate, correct and resolute action on the part of the driver. Slow down and don't try to compensate the snake by steering.

 

[Chrisbee]

the trouble with posts like this one is they don't reach the ones most at risk yes they are a warning to us all but the fact of the matter is a high pecentage of caravaners probably most in fact have never been on a forum or even picked up and read a van mag. they have absolutly no idea of the legal requirements or even thought of what the best practice might be just buy a van (the biggest one available) load it up then, hang it on the car and off they go, the first hint of trouble and thats it either panic or do the wrong thing.

the vans that we have seen in accidents allways seem to be new or nearly new larger types towed by something inaproprate several of which had no stabiliser at all or the accident happend during some difficult manouver,

very very rarely do you see older vans or vans towed by obviously experienced caravanners get into trouble.

and I think that goes to the heart of the problem.

as for clarkson and bruce "no comment"

Spot on Colin

 

[ProfAlGoogle]

In a nutshell to sum up, you are ether a Driver or a chauffer, in my honest opinion the vast majority on these forums are Drivers, they take there hobby seriously, and take the time to read these forums, and most importantly pass there experience on to others, but we are in the minority, most of the punters out there just view it as a cheap holiday.

Allan & Gill.

 

[colin-yorkshire]

agreed,

the type of unit that gets in to trouble in my view are all similar high powered vehicle and large trailer, with speed inexperience and ignorance thrown in,

even forums (dare I say it)do you get them, although not often

with statments like "my tow car is so good I don't know the van is on the back" ummm well you will when it turns over on the motorway,

colin

 

[xtrailman]

colin

All the new or nearly new vans, in the main, do have alko stabilizers, so i not sure how you have arrived at your conclusion?

Lutz

Same as emmerson i have only ever had one snake, and i did steer to correct it, luckily it recovered, but not before putting me and my family in fear for our lives.

Anyone who can just sit holding onto the steering wheel, while the car is pointing towards the crash barrier, then pointing to the hard shoulder, must have bigger b#lls than me.

I have also had a slow puncture, on the offside, it was a very blustery side wind, on the day. So when the caravan started not "feeling" right, i put it down to the very strong wind, speed was down to 40mph, and i was looking for the next A1 exit, which was some distance away. White van man flashed by in the middle lane, while his passenger was making pointing gestures to the caravan wheel, at same same shouting something along the lines of " you f##king tos##r" (lip reading).

Anyway i had no idea i had a puncture, so thank you white van man.

 

[Lutz]

If the car is already starting to snake as well as the caravan, you've left your reactions a bit late. The tell-tale signs of an imminent snake are when the caravan is starting to wag. That's the time to react, before it has a chance to throw the car about.

If you manage to compensate the swaying motion of the car just by steering you are very, very lucky. As likely as not you will not succeed because chances are that you will get out of rhythm, making things even worse in the process.