Permanent Caravanning.

[Parksy]

As a couple who have no chance whatsoever of ever saving up enough for even a deposit on a home in the UK, due to the ridiculous prices, we are now looking at other alternatives.

Britain, quite simply, is too expensive for us, despite it being our birthplace.

What is the current situation, regarding the right to choose to live in your own caravan, even if it means moving sites every so often within the area that we both work.

We have no intention whatsoever of lining any greedy landlord's pockets with rents approaching ú600+ a month in this area, neither do we subscribe to the quaint notion that because we choose to want to live in our caravan (a modern twin axle model), that we are gipsies or 'travellers 9with no disrespect to either of those groups).

Despite having good jobs in both nursing and transport, prices are simply totally unaffordable to us on what we both earn.

We both appreciate that it's not an ideal situation, but we firmly believe that in not too many years, this country is going to be flooded with people who, quite literally, have nowhere where they can afford to to live.

We believe that, given the opportunity, many farms, caravan sites and touring parks etc etc would gladly throw their land open to people like us, who are respectable and able to pay our way, and live quietly and simply, in the way that we are being forced to choose.

We'd appreciate any ideas based on the above.As a couple who have no chance whatsoever of ever saving up enough for even a deposit on a home in the UK, due to the ridiculous prices, we are now looking at other alternatives.

Britain, quite simply, is too expensive for us, despite it being our birthplace.

What is the current situation, regarding the right to choose to live in your own caravan, even if it means moving sites every so often within the area that we both work.

We have no intention whatsoever of lining any greedy landlord's pockets with rents approaching £600+ a month in this area, neither do we subscribe to the quaint notion that because we choose to want to live in our caravan (a modern twin axle model), that we are gipsies or 'travellers 9with no disrespect to either of those groups).

Despite having good jobs in both nursing and transport, prices are simply totally unaffordable to us on what we both earn.

We both appreciate that it's not an ideal situation, but we firmly believe that in not too many years, this country is going to be flooded with people who, quite literally, have nowhere where they can afford to to live.

We believe that, given the opportunity, many farms, caravan sites and touring parks etc etc would gladly throw their land open to people like us, who are respectable and able to pay our way, and live quietly and simply, in the way that we are being forced to choose.

We'd appreciate any ideas based on the above.

 

[Mike_5041144]

Keith my heart goes out to you and YOH. It is a disgrace that affordable housing is out of your reach - especially with non-Brits 'queue jumping'.

I can offer no solution only sympathy.

Perhaps someone on this site can help you with a semi-permanent site.

Good luck

 

[MikeJE]

Keith,

I believe some site supervisors, engineers, architects and others working at long term civil engineering projects - road building or major building and such - use long term caravan sites. (And I don't mean those beaten up 'vans seen alongside road works.) Perhaps someone like that could point you in the right direction.

 

[Surfer]

We are in a similar situation and if you live in the West Midlands I may be able to help as we have been living in our modern twin axle for the last 20 months along with 4 Yorkshire terriers and a cat. We move once a year for a period of a month.

One thing I can assure you is that it is a lot less stressful as you don't have to worry about council tax, water, electric or gas bills as it is all inclusive in your monthly pitch fee. In addition you will be living a more environmentally friendly life than many other people on this forum. No offence to them.

I would not suggest it to someone with a small caravan as they will get stress out. We have the awning up which provides a lot of extra room. In it we have a cane lounge suite, a 32" TV purchased second hand for

 

[Guest]

I may be shot down but I think you are looking at the problem the wrong way. If you are 2 working people then there is no reason why you cannot make something work, after all others do. If you feel the UK is not giving you what you wish, then move abroad, after all many do, myself among them. However, there are problems in that which can also be disheartening, it is not a panacea. That is life I am afraid.

Living in a caravan I regret to say is not a long term solution. If children come along then the problems will get even worse. As for being in debt, with no obvious sign of reward, I suspect virtually all of us will admit to that one.

You have not mentioned your ages, but if you are on the younger side, then I am sorry but none of us really had very much at an early age. If holidays were possible, then we were lucky, and as for new furniture, well forget it. I watch what my own kids have to contend with nowadays. It is neither better nor worse, but I admit different, to what I had to cope with. Expectations are higher, but are they necessary??

Let me be blunt. You state a twin axle modern caravan is yours. That cost something. I sold my first caravan for a part deposit on a house first time round. I have also moved anywhere, and everywhere to get ahead. That often meant lost contact with families but was an necessary choice.

In the careers you state, Australia wil probably take you now, so think about it.

Sorry, maybe not the most sympathetic of replies, but it is the truth.

 

[JeremyClarksson]

I thought the government were offering essential service workers help with these problems in part lease mortgages and special housing.

I love caravanning but I can not imagine being quite as keen if I was forced to do it permanently because there was no alternative.

 

[Ogre]

Thanks for the replies so far. Very useful.

Scotch lad, I think that you have misread us. We are too old to have children, and certainly not in debt. We own our caravan, because we chose to buy it with this very scenario in mind, as we have no other choice, and we repeat, we will not pay a landlord money to rent, which would take away over 85% of our joint income.

At the moment, we DO rent, but as our landlord has just put our rent up by 25% (to service HIS new increased interest rates of course), we have told him that we are not staying.

Actually, we don't WANT to live in a bricks and mortar house. We'd far prefer the more relaxed atmosphere of our caravan. We've had a caravan for many years by the way, and lost our respective houses in our own divorces years ago, so we've been there, and had all the hassle of that.

We're not looking for sympathy, more like solutions, because whether you accept it or not, living in houses or property in the UK is now out of the price bracket of many many tens thousands of low paid people like us, and sure as hell, it's going to get a lot worse.

 

[JeremyClarksson]

I meant to add

There are a lot of sites that have permanent static homes with a 4-6 week 'live away' policy, if they would take a large tourer on the same terms you could just move to another site for that period.

 

[Billy_bear]

keith

if you join the c&cc you can stay for 28 days at a time so if you looked out for 2 or 3 cl with electric hook ups you might be able to stay local to where you both work and pay less in site fees

bill

 

[peteh1]

hi keith have you concidered a mobile home on a permant site we did last year and we are so happy and live in awonderfull area. regaurds peter

 

[Surfer]

The site where we stay permanently costs us

 

[Ogre]

OK. Thank you one and all for your replies. I think we have enough to go on now.

Ian, you have given us some great ideas, and we WILL get to live the way we want to, whatever it takes. Heartfelt thanks.

If the moderator wishes to send you my email, I have no issues with that. It's a pity that there is no direct private member to member email facility on this forum.

As a finale: There is already a huge housing shortfall in the UK. It is getting worse by the day. The Buy to Rent crowd are compounding the problem, because although THEY can speculate and invest in property, and charge rents which to a lot of people (like us) are totally unaffordable, the bottom line of the whole issue is that housing of any description is now just too expensive an option to remain in the UK.

 

[Guest]

Keith, I hope you achieve all you are looking for, and as you state I had assumed you were at the younger end of the age spectrum.

I also agree with the comments regarding a mobile home on a permanent site, but that is different from what you implied, which was living permanently in a touring caravan. Not having an address can lead to many problems, not least having a bank account. Now I know certain sections of the community do live in touring caravans, but I don't think you are considering yourself in that group, and even here they often live on designated sites virtually permanently. In addition, if you are working it may lead to problems with employers, if you have no residential address. Many people who go 'full timing' tend to be retired wheer these issues do not apply. I also look at the issue of the life of the van itself, and yes, one can state that having no house costs means more money to spend, but it is a depreciating asset, not appreciating as you clearly feel about houses.

However, if you wish some good sdvice on 'fulltiming' then I suggest looking at the Motorhome press as there are regular sections and contacts for that very subject. Mind you sometimes they are discussing which beach, Morrocco or Canary Islands in which to spend the winter, and they do make me jealous. Maybe one day....

Anyway, as mentioned at the start. Good Luck in everything you do.

 

[Jo-AnneFairway5402010]

keith, i dont blame you mate. we rent of the local housing auth and our rent is

 

[Ogre]

Thanks Jo-Anne.

We will do so, and just to put this into perspective, the average price for a 3 bedroom semi here in the South west is now.....wait for it.....

 

[ThePlotter]

Keith,I know this suggestion is a variance with your question but have you considered a narrowboat,they are readily available,can be bought for not vast amounts of money,moorings are available for residential use they have at least as much room as a caravan and are of course moveable.Just a thought it seems to be an option many are taking up including the son of one of my neighbours for the same reasons as you quote.

 

[Guest]

As stated I sympathise with your predicament. However, having to move from the area in which you were brought up, is not a new phenomenon. This has been happening in the UK for probably the last 300 years, although not always for the same reasons, but usually economics are the main criteria. I personally have moved areas and even countries for virtually the last 30 years. I had a choice, go where the work was, or starve, and some of the countries were terrible.

The housing market is being blown up by a combination of things, but the principal one is the current Government's idea that credit debt is the solution to all problems, and many people have bought into the 'get it today, and maybe pay tomorrow' scenario. Especially if you can put the debt on to the mortgage and never really see it. That is rapidly coming to an end and house prices will drop by about 20%, maybe more in areas where people panic. Repossesions will increase and the 'council' housing market will get even worse, especially as 25% of all new affordable houses are to be allocated to immigrants, according to the Government's own figures.

I still do not buy into the idea of having no permanent home whatsoever. Even those that do go 'fulltiming' invariably suggest downsizing, or even purchasing a share of a sibling's home just to keep a registered address. Using sites, or as has been suggested a narrow boat for instance, can lead to being classed as resident, and therefore Council tax looms. The other thing that worries me is that time is always passing, and what happens when one partner gets sick or even worse? No permanent address means no registration with a NHS Doctor etc. You can go private, but defeats the objective. I still feel we all need a 'bolthole'.

You mention rents in the order of

 

[chelsea1]

I agree with Mike. You have my sympathies keith, it is shocking that brits now cannot afford to live in their own country when non brits can.

As a Devonian born and bred I can understand the hardship you are encountering affording your own property. This region is a lovely place to live - but a ridiculously expensive one also, and the wages are rubbish. Water rates and council tax being amongst the highest in the country, in some areas house prices are 12 times the annual salary and we are being swamped by the 2nd home owners (for the houses to stand annoyingly empty in non holiday season ) :-(

I dont blame you one bit for saying "no" to the landlord and living in your caravan, at some point enough is enough. I hope you find a solution to your problem and good luck for the future.

 

[Guest]

I also assume that the cost of the sites have been factored into the equation. Unless one finds a cheap corner of a farmer's field then site fees are likely to be in the order of

 

[Pat_374304630]

Good luck Keith.Please keep us posted.You could do a monthly diary so that we could see how you are getting on living your dream.

I hope you find somewhere soon.

 

[Ogre]

Scotch Lad, you seem to be missing the point a bit here.

It is inevitable, the way that house prices are going, that many many thousands of people will, in the foreseeable future, be unable to afford 'bricks and mortar' accommodation.

This leaves a simple choice. Rent or make alternative arrangements. That's what we are now in the process of doing. Rents are too expensive for what we 'want' to pay. Landlords are getting greedier by the week, and as Chelsea so rightly says, enough is enough.

We asked for advice, that's all. We haven't got a 'tin-box'. We've got a super, well insulated, and modern caravan with all mod cons, and we won't be in any corner of any farmers field.

We accept that it wouldn't be everybody's cup of tea. It's a choice we've decided to make.

We're looking for a permanent place where we can hook up, pay our way and live quietly. Is that so wrong? It's what most people who own houses do. Only they are 'hooked up' to the mains. Not a huge difference really if you think about it.

 

[Barking]

Scotch Lad, you seem to be missing the point a bit here.

It is inevitable, the way that house prices are going, that many many thousands of people will, in the foreseeable future, be unable to afford 'bricks and mortar' accommodation.

This leaves a simple choice. Rent or make alternative arrangements. That's what we are now in the process of doing. Rents are too expensive for what we 'want' to pay. Landlords are getting greedier by the week, and as Chelsea so rightly says, enough is enough.

We asked for advice, that's all. We haven't got a 'tin-box'. We've got a super, well insulated, and modern caravan with all mod cons, and we won't be in any corner of any farmers field.

We accept that it wouldn't be everybody's cup of tea. It's a choice we've decided to make.

We're looking for a permanent place where we can hook up, pay our way and live quietly. Is that so wrong? It's what most people who own houses do. Only they are 'hooked up' to the mains. Not a huge difference really if you think about it.

Keith

I'm with you all the way, my wife and I are in a slightly different position, but we hope to be moving into a caravan on a permanent basis around Feb 2008.In fact going upto the NEC next week to order it!

It's not everybody's 'cup of tea' but we think we will enjoy it - hope you do to.

 

[full timer]

hello Keith, good luck on your venture, we chose to do this ourselves last November and havn't looked back, however the one thing we found that it is very hard to do without is an address, mainly for things like driving licience,insurance,dentist,docters etc. We use my parents address at the moment, as regards a permanant site this is where you come up against the authorities, a stay of any more than 28 consecetive nights then qualify's you to pay council tax apparently and breaches the planning/ club rules, up untill now we have stayed on CL sites mainly using one for as much time as possible and at a cost of

 

[Surfer]

OK. Thank you one and all for your replies. I think we have enough to go on now.

Ian, you have given us some great ideas, and we WILL get to live the way we want to, whatever it takes. Heartfelt thanks.

If the moderator wishes to send you my email, I have no issues with that. It's a pity that there is no direct private member to member email facility on this forum.

As a finale: There is already a huge housing shortfall in the UK. It is getting worse by the day. The Buy to Rent crowd are compounding the problem, because although THEY can speculate and invest in property, and charge rents which to a lot of people (like us) are totally unaffordable, the bottom line of the whole issue is that housing of any description is now just too expensive an option to remain in the UK.

Hi Keith, you can contact me on temporary email address permanent@pobox.comand I will try and update you.

 

[Guest]

Keith,

You have made your choice and good luck to you. I just don't think your maths add up, but that is only my opinion. I also accept that virtually all of us have thought about opting out of the system one way or another, and speaking for myself, may yet do so.

I apologise for calling your van a 'tinbox', it was a rhetorical, and hopefully intended as a humourous statement, and I suspect there is indeed metal in it, at least mine does. I just meant that you both have only probably 120 sq feet in which to live and keep your whole world. Compare that to even a small flat and you will see what I mean. Awnings are fine, but there will be times when it is not possible to use it. I also read boating magazines and note that vessels about 45 feet in length are often quoted as being 'suitable for liveaboard' 45 feet is a lot bigger than your van. Maybe a slightly different approach but the parameters are similar.

You also are now talking about 'permanent' sites which is different to your original post suggesting moving around. As mentioned by others, being permanent means local taxes, and of course site fees going up every year etc etc.

I do not agree with your pessimistic outlook. Yes, things are bad, but I don't think your conclusions are going to be correct, or at least I have to hope not. My last suggestion would be that if things go the way you wish, and you do manage to save money by doing this then keep it for the 'rainy day' when you may need to think of another game plan. By the way, have you thought about being a warden, then you escape the site fees etc?