Phoney MCEA engineer

Feb 9, 2009
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I had my van serviced yesterday by an MCEA engineer. He was recommended and I checked him out on the MCEA web site.
He was telling me that some one has set them selves up as an MCEA engineer in the same town and copied his web site. The new man is not MCEA approved and the matter has been reported to them. So even if the web site says MCEA approved check them on the official MCEA site.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Hmm Dusty,

I know I am often critical of the work that some dealers do, I am certain that the vast majority of dealers and service centres do genuinely wish to offer a proper service, but sadly there will be some who are simply in it for the money consequently and as there is little control exserted over these businesses from organisations that have real teeth, I am not surprised there can be a wide range in the standard of work carried out and other Customer Service Activities.

Even the most highly recommended agent can sometimes get it wrong, which can give rise to a complaint, but that might be just one instance in a thousand. So to use that example to tar the whole sector is perhaps unfair.

Your reported experience in another thread does raise some serious issues, but I will bet the workshop involved is part of the approved workshop scheme.

This rather calls into question the process of using registers of businesses to find either an approved workshop or mobile technician.

But putting the problem into perspective, using either of the schemes mentioned will raise your chances of getting the work carried out to good standard, compared to using any Tom, Dick or Harriet found the newspaper or telephone directory.
 
Jun 20, 2005
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Hi Prof

Agreed there has to be a balance and yes it may be unfair to tar one dealer for one mistake. But I have experienced a number and the lack of response is not good.
My main recommendation on here is that the use of a fully qualified mobile engineer offers you the chance to see the engineer in action and discuss one to one any problems experienced since the last service.
A poor mobile engnieer will not last long so he / she has to live or die by the sword..
 
Nov 6, 2006
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There does seem to be some er..rivalry between MCEA and AWS. I recently used MCEA to inspect a proposed purchase, and very useful that has been. However, two AWS I subsequently spoke to dismissed MCEA out of hand, as neither recognised anything done by the MCEA, principally on the grounds of the duration and scope of training as far as I could judge. 'I don't recognise them' said one, and the other said 'you've wasted your money'.

I don't know enough about the respective set ups, but these sort of industry views are not helpful to us as customers
 

Damian

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Mar 14, 2005
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To try and clarify the position of the MCEA and AWS, and some insight into both.
The AWS was set up as a Trade Organisation by the NCC and in its early days only had Dealer workshop participants, as mobiles were not very well known or as many as there are today.

The MCEA was set up by a long time caravan engineer as he saw the need for mobile engineers as well as fixed workshops.

The AWS relied on workshops training their engineers on site (and on YOUR vans), not by necessarily qualified people but by those who had "been working" on vans for a number of years.
The need for qualifications came in not so long ago, about 10 or so years ago.

The MCEA training is not advertised or promoted as the ONLY training anyone needs, in fact it is a very basic INTRODUCTION to caravan servicing.
From the initial training it is up to each engineer to get all the necessary training from the various manufacturers, but some of the actual van manufacturers refuse to offer any training other than to their dealer network or specially chosen Mobiles.
Most of the equipment makers, ie Truma, Al-Ko, Thetford, , do offer training sessions but they all cost a considerable amount of money , but without them an engineer cannot do his job.
On top of that , every Mobile engineer MUST be Gas qualified and the MINIMUM qualification is ACoPS.
Gas Safe is not a requirement but is preferable if available, but at £3000 to gain Gas Safe it is out of the reach of many Mobiles.

Every mobile MUST be qualified in LV (Mains) and ELV (12v) electrics.

In most dealer workshops there may be one qualified person for gas and one for electric who oversee any work done by others who are not actually qualified.

Add to the training, qualifications, time and accommodation costs, then comes all the tools and special tools and safety equipment, paperwork, update training, vehicle, comprehensive stock of spares, Insurance etc etc etc and the Mobile guy has a lot riding on his reputation, and his lack of bank balance to recoup over a number of years.

There is no formal Apprenticeship route, I know as I tried to get an Apprentice but the Scheme could only offer either a Gas Fitters course, OR an Electricians course, or a Water course.
They would not even entertain a multi skill course covering just what a caravan engineer needs to know, which is a shame as it stops some very talented young people from doing a very interesting and varied work .

Lastly, the idea that there is some rivalry between AWS and MCEA is only held by a blinkered few, as many of the MCEA trained engineers have gone on to become AWS members too.

The MCEA actually offers very good backup to engineers with help only a phone call away if needed. the AWS offers NOTHING to its members other than a number of service year stickers, and very expensive courses which are not very good.

The MCEA has taken the very dangerous subject of Gas and CO testing to the next level and all the MCEA trained members will do comprehensive testing of the gas system and its combustion products with the use of very expensive Combustion Analysers, unlike dealer workshops who do NOT , as it is NOT a requirement of the AWS to carry out combustion testing , despite the topic being brought up many times that I know of.
 
Jun 20, 2005
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Thankyou Damian

I'm confused.

Both MCEA and AWS are NCC approved so as you say both must be set to an approved standard.
In my case as someone who is now and has moved to a mobile engineer who is MCEA have I made a sound decision??
If the AWS is more easily found at a dealers premises then after my experience I wont be supporting them again. Sorry if I have misunderstood.
 

Damian

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Mar 14, 2005
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Hi Dusty,
The situation at the time I was working is that the MCEA is NOT approved by the NCC.
Now the confusion:
The NCC has many members and the MCEA may be a member , but the NCC is NOT the same as the AWS, even though it is run by the same body, the AWS is a separate entity.
Other members of the NCC include caravan parks, and anyone else who wants to pay to be a member.

The AWS is the ONLY caravan manufacturers recognised association, and many will not even talk to MCEA members, only to AWS approved engineers.
It is,as far as mobiles go, ONLY AWS approved engineers who can carry out servicing AND retain the warranty.

As for your point about only easily finding AWS approved at Dealers, no that is not true, many of the MCEA trained members have gone on to become AWS qualified and registered and those who are are clearly indicated on the MCEA website, and are also listed on the official AWS website.
 
Mar 2, 2010
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Its not compulsory at the moment but every gas fire and boiler I fit I do a 15 minute room co check while I am cleaning up and putting tools away,even more important in a van with the reduced volume .
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Hi Damian
I think I saw a Caravan Finder programme a few weeks ago where NCC had started an apprenticeship scheme that focused on caravans,
 

Damian

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DeliDave_ said:
Its not compulsory at the moment but every gas fire and boiler I fit I do a 15 minute room co check while I am cleaning up and putting tools away,even more important in a van with the reduced volume .

If you are referring to domestic items in a house, then Gas Safe has its own requirements.
Caravans do not fall under Gas Safe, which in my opinion is wrong.

Gas is Gas and CO is CO wherever it is and to let caravan owners drop off the radar as far as Gas Safe is concerned is just wrong.
 

Damian

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woodsieboy said:
Hi Damian
I think I saw a Caravan Finder programme a few weeks ago where NCC had started an apprenticeship scheme that focused on caravans,

That may be true, it has been talked about for a long time, but anything which is endorsed by the NCC does not have my trust having had to sit through some of their courses (at a great cost and little useful information)
 
Mar 14, 2005
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There is an organisation called "Caravan Industry Training" or (CITO)

and I quote from

http://www.cito.org.uk/gas-training
"Who needs what?

Service technicians working on privately owned touring caravans and motorhomes need to have ACoPs for their standard service requirements. However, if the technician works with gas on units that are hired out, used for business purposes (e.g. burger vans), or on static caravans on holiday or residential parks, they must have an ACS qualification and be registered with Gas Safe."

You may find it interesting to explore the web site.
 

Damian

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Mar 14, 2005
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ProfJohnL said:
There is an organisation called "Caravan Industry Training" or (CITO)

and I quote from

http://www.cito.org.uk/gas-training
"Who needs what?

Service technicians working on privately owned touring caravans and motorhomes need to have ACoPs for their standard service requirements. However, if the technician works with gas on units that are hired out, used for business purposes (e.g. burger vans), or on static caravans on holiday or residential parks, they must have an ACS qualification and be registered with Gas Safe."

You may find it interesting to explore the web site.

CITO is part of the NCC, they all work out of the same building, just different offices and to be honest, they have no clue about what they do.
They are "facilitators", they do not do any training themselves, they bring in others who they think will fit the bill to do training.
 
Jul 10, 2012
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Reading all that has gone before, regarding the thoroughness of training, etc., I believe this is as naught compared with the attitude of the engineer carrying out the operation. I am of the opinion that it is probably a basic human instinct to cut corners where possible, and I have always viewed service work with suspicion.
Last year, I had the incredibly good luck to be able to engage the services of a local mobile engineer not previously used. He was an ex-Pat Belgian (have you got him identified yet ?) and he was poetry in motion. He went through my Ace ta with an almost fluid motion and gave such attention to detail as, for instance, measuring with a meter the response time in the electrical trips in my van, and dismantling and lubricating one of my roof blinds because it was a bit sluggish

I really do believe that it is not so much the organisation he operates under but more to the individual concerned.
 
Feb 15, 2006
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Craig is MCEA trained and QS, he's AWS (approved Mobile Workshop) , he's ELV & LV, Acops, Alde, thetford, domestic, just done another gas course at CT training as he has the new gas analyser tester with print out for full gas check. Got new ALKO next week I think.
Alan, ring craig he will explain the difference x
 

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