Power Inverters

[lucylogic]

Ok folks you are my last hope. We go away to the Twinwood Festival every August Bank Holiday and we are there from Thursday to Tuesday. Obviously there are no EHU's as we have to be self sufficient. I have always dried my hair naturally while there but I would like to use a 500 watt hair dryer if possible, after all a girl has to look her best even in wartime lol
Can someone please tell me what inverter I need to use this hair dryer. I know we'll have to connect to the car battery rather than through the solar panels 100+40=140 watt and the 2 batteries 100+110=210 amps via the controller which is rated at 20 amps.
I've read about square wave, modified sine wave and pure sine wave, all very confusing. Bought a 1200 watt inverter thinking that would be OK but find that it isn't enough.
So the question is ................ Which inverter do I need, how many watts. Only need this twice a year at most and to run it for 5-8 mins max
Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance

 

[Parksy]

Hi Lucy
What great taste you have, we've been going to Twinwood every August for the past ten years and we camped there near to the control tower a couple of months back when the Lamours did a gig one weekend.

I'll try to work out what inverter you would need tomorrow but there is an alternative to splashing out on buying another one only to use it a couple of times a year.
If you're on Campsite A head toward the arena entrance and between the toilet block and the newsagents cabin is a hairdressers where you can use their 240 volt hairdryer for around £2 according to Herself because she used it last year.
We are usually in the front row of caravans near to the arena entrance, so if you spot a little fat bloke in an RAF tropical uniform (if it's warm) or Brittish Army battledress (if it's cold) sporting a moustache and a walking stick (vintage of course) in an Abbey Cardinal t/a caravan with a flagpole at the front flying an RAF flag pop in for a cuppa and say hello

 

[Parksy]

I've had time to find out a bit more regarding power inverters Lucy.
Sine wave inverters are for sensitive electronic equipment like laptops, so for a hairdryer a cheaper modified sine wave inverter would be fine.
I've managed to glean from the internet Here that:
'If the item is motor driven, it requires additional start-up (surge)
wattage (typically 2-3 times the continuous wattage required) to start
the device. For example, a miter saw that runs at 700 watts might
require 1400 watts to start up. If your inverter only supplies 1000
watts, you will not be able to start it up. In this case, you would want
to select an inverter rated at least 1400 surge watts to handle
start-up needs.'
Inverters also draw battery power so I'd suggest that to run your 500 watt hairdryer from a 12v battery which is in good condition you'd need at least a 1500 watt power inverter.
Herself tells me that she's used her hairdryer from our inverter but I don't know the figures offhand because our caravan is in storage at the moment. She reckons that your best bet is the on site hairdressers wall mounted dryers which have mirrors and shelves, and she she thinks the hairdresser opens from Friday daytime onwards.
If you fancy a 40s makeover and can't get an appointment there is another hairdresser who also sells hats, scarves, brooches etc in the traders village.

 

[Gafferbill]

Hi Lucy.

I will just relate what I do which may help if Parksy has not already solved your problem.

I use this 600 watt inverter connected directly to my tow car battery which is a heavy duty 12volt.
The 12 volt supply leads are short so the inverter is temporarily placed in the engine compartment.
On my car I can still shut the bonnet and run the engine which also has variable speed control (hand throttle).
I have then made up a 10 meter mains supply lead by which I connect the inverter to the mains socket of my caravan.
The set up will run a 500 watt hair dryer from any mains socket in the caravan.
The tow car engine does not have to be running if the battery has sufficient charge.

Are you sure you hair drier is 500 watts?

 

[lucylogic]

Hi Parksy, if I remember correctly this will be year 12 for Twinwood which means we've both found the greatest event ever at the same time lol.
Normally my aunt and her partner and myself and hubby usually park in Campsite A more or less opposite the toilet block but a few rows in. The first year we were in the 3rd row but as the years have gone on we have gone further and further back, last year we were in row 8 because of some of the clubs. They take up large blocks of space so they can be together so others like ourselves get pushed back. We usually arrive at lunchtime on the Thursday. This year we are in Campsite B but my aunt is in Campsite A, only cos we missed getting to the office on time as we normally pay for the following year while we are there. Had to pay in January this year hence Campsite B, Won't miss the office this time though lol
Yes I know about the hairdresser cabin but as I have short hair there is not a lot they can do for me in the way of styling hence why I need the inverter. Once it is dry I can use my gas straighteners and gas brush to style, very handy gadgets. Pity they can't make a gas hair dryer but I suppose that would blow the flame out lol
I thought the 1200 watt inverter would do because I doubled the wattage of the hair dryer and added 20% hence 500x2+20%=1200 which is what I'd read. It worked with a whistle kind of noise then packed in.. According to your calculation it should be triple as I hadn't taken the car battery into account. Sooo if I get a 2000 watt surge and 1000 watt continuous inverter I should be covered is that correct? Read the article which makes things clearer
Thanks very much for your reply, will certainly look out for you : )

 

[lucylogic]

Hi Gafferbill
The inverter we have is 1200 watt but the leads are long, this could be one of the problems I suppose though we were standing next to the car battery with the engine running while I tried the hair dryers. One is 600 watt and the other is 500 watt, I'm greedy I have 2 lol well actually 3 if you count the 1400 watt I use at home lol but I knew I couldn't use that one. Will get hubby to try this when he gets home at the weekend. It wouldn't hurt.
Many thanks

 

[Parksy]

....Yes I know about the hairdresser cabin but as I have short hair there is not a lot they can do for me in the way of styling hence why I need the inverter. Once it is dry I can use my gas straighteners and gas brush to style, very handy gadgets. Pity they can't make a gas hair dryer but I suppose that would blow the flame out lol
I thought the 1200 watt inverter would do because I doubled the wattage of the hair dryer and added 20% hence 500x2+20%=1200 which is what I'd read. It worked with a whistle kind of noise then packed in.. According to your calculation it should be triple as I hadn't taken the car battery into account. Sooo if I get a 2000 watt surge and 1000 watt continuous inverter I should be covered is that correct? Read the article which makes things clearer
Thanks very much for your reply, will certainly look out for you : )

You don't have to have your hair styled to use the hair dryers in the cabin Lucy, apparently they have a couple of separate blow dryers for use by those who have washed their hair in the shower blocks and they charge about £2 a go.
Carole uses those gas curling tong thingy's to do her hair, she tried the hairdresser once but wasn't terribly impressed and said that the guy in the traders village is cheaper and better anyway.

Our inverter makes a similar whistling noise at times, was your battery fully charged? Our inverter has a low voltage alarm and it shuts down automatically if the battery is too low.
Any electric motor demands more power on start up so I should say that the 1000 watt continuous would be ok but I'm no expert, we only run the tv and recharge the coloured lights on my flagpole off ours.
I know what you mean about the clubs pushing single units further back on Capsite A, my mate usually comes but he's having a year off this time.
In times past I've saved his pitch by putting my awning and groundsheet bag on it because he helped with our awning so it was better for him not to be too far away. The stewards are normally ok as long as you explain matters to them.
If any of you have a blue disabled badge you are allowed to pitch in the first two rows on campsite A, if this is the case it might be worth contacting Twinwood.
We go down to Clapham on Tuesday and stay on the certified site in the village so that we can explore the area, do our food shopping and go out for a meal on Wednesday evening which gets us nicely into the Twinwood vibe, and we rarely have to leave Twinwood once we are pitched. We are in the entrance queue of caravans by 10:30 - 11:00 am Thursday morning to be sure of a good spot in the coffin dodgers row.
The festival is becoming more popular each year, I wish that Twinwood would have a 40s festival in the spring so that we could recapture some of the atmosphere from when the event started, and the more general vintage festival that it has now become over the Bank Holiday. We'd go to both!

 

[Surfer]

We have a 150w invertor but not sure if it can even power a TV. LOL!

 

[lucylogic]

We are in the entrance queue of caravans by 10:30 - 11:00 am Thursday morning to be sure of a good spot in the coffin dodgers row.
Just loved that bit lololol
The festival is becoming more popular each year, I wish that Twinwood would have a 40s festival in the spring so that we could recapture some of the atmosphere from when the event started, and the more general vintage festival that it has now become over the Bank Holiday. We'd go to both!
I agree, I really loved it at the beginning, but like all things they have to cater for the masses. That year with Elvis really killed it !!! I wouldn't mind 2 a year either but getting the acts booked would be a nightmare
Will get the one I mentioned and hopefully that will do.
Oh and I'm sure I know who you are : )
Thanks again. C U @ Twinwood

 

[lucylogic]

Sorry surfer don't watch TV when away.
We listen to Internet radio WBNJ which plays all the old standards like Frank Sinatra, Dean Martin, Ella Fitzgerald, and all from that era, fantastic station. I tether my phone to my Ipod and put the Ipod onto speakers and play the station through TuneIn Radio.
As I have unlimited Internet, that's us sorted : )

 

[Parksy]

We are in the entrance queue of caravans by 10:30 - 11:00 am Thursday morning to be sure of a good spot in the coffin dodgers row.
Just loved that bit lololol
The festival is becoming more popular each year, I wish that Twinwood would have a 40s festival in the spring so that we could recapture some of the atmosphere from when the event started, and the more general vintage festival that it has now become over the Bank Holiday. We'd go to both!
I agree, I really loved it at the beginning, but like all things they have to cater for the masses. That year with Elvis really killed it !!! I wouldn't mind 2 a year either but getting the acts booked would be a nightmare
Will get the one I mentioned and hopefully that will do.
Oh and I'm sure I know who you are : )
Thanks again. C U @ Twinwood

I quite enjoyed the first time we saw the Elvis look a likes with the stage show but when they came back the second time they were pathetic and you could tell that none of them really wanted to be there

As Prof John said, the whistling was probably a low battery warning, why not try the inverter and hairdryer before you go to Twinwood to see if it works via the car battery?
I usually take a spare leisure battery, ours almost always lasts because we're hardy ever in the caravan except to sleep but there's always somebody struggling with therir power supply and I try to help.
There are lots of 'lesser' local artistes who cater for 1940s events, I was talking to David Wooding when we went to the Lamours gig and may have planted the germ of an idea but there's a lot of work involved and the festival site is normally a working farm.
Do you go to any other 40s events? There are loads of them now and they are becoming very popular.
You may have seen me stumping around ..........

 

[Gafferbill]

Naaah!..........that's Sir David Jason!

 

[Surfer]

Naaah!..........that's Sir David Jason!

Ohy I thought it was Biggles?

 

[Parksy]

Naaah!..........that's Sir David Jason!

Ohy I thought it was Biggles?

Dawn take off chaps, lets have a wizard prang and be back in time for tea and medals!

 

[emmerson]

We don't have the hair dryer problem, but herself has a mobility scooter, which obviously needs charging at times. For this I use a 300w inverter hard wired into the car's cigarette lighter circuit, then a 24v charger on the scooter. All the time the scooter is travelling in the car its being charged.

 

[lucylogic]

Aha, I was right, I have seen you around. I'm almost sure you and herself were sat in the row in front and a little to the right of us last year.
Now sorted with the inverter. It was because the leads were too long, duhh Both the 500 watt and the 600 watt hairdryers work now

Caravan all ready, all I've got to decide now is what I'm going to wear, decisions decisions

Thank you all for your input

PS Hate the Lamours!!!!.She was making goo goo eyes at the young lad while she was performing and I really felt uncomfortable. She should have stayed on her own and the band strike out on their own Ugh!!
That will be us walking out when they come on

 

[Gabsgrandad]

Gafferbill wrote:

Naaah!..........that's Sir David Jason!

Yeh you are right 'Bill - it is === it's Delboy!

PS Delboy thanks for sorting the verification thingee for me.

 

[Parksy]

Aha, I was right, I have seen you around. I'm almost sure you and herself were sat in the row in front and a little to the right of us last year.

Now sorted with the inverter. It was because the leads were too long, duhh Both the 500 watt and the 600 watt hairdryers work now Laughing

Caravan all ready, all I've got to decide now is what I'm going to wear, decisions decisions Wink

Thank you all for your input Laughing

PS Hate the Lamours!!!!.She was making goo goo eyes at the young lad while she was performing and I really felt uncomfortable. She should have stayed on her own and the band strike out on their own Ugh!!

That will be us walking out when they come on

Hi Lucy

I'm glad that you sorted the inverter without spending mega bucks on a replacement, and we'll look forward to meeting you when you're resplendent in your 40s finery.

We're not too keen on the Lamours either Lucy, but Dave Wooding who owns Twinwood is now Lola's manager so we're stuck with them at Twinwood I'm afraid. We'll be having a wander round when they come on, and at least there's lots to see and do.

If you prefer to see Lola's solo act there's a nice weekend in September, the Stoke Bruerne Village at War weekend, and she is on at the pub on Friday and in the marquee over the weekend with Paul Casper who just has to be George Formby's secret love child!

There's a village hall dance on the Saturday night featuring the Sticky Wicket Orchestra, we went to the Stoke Bruerne weekend last year and enjoyed it very much.

Naaah!..........that's Sir David Jason!

Yeh you are right 'Bill - it is

PS Delboy thanks for sorting the verification thingee for me.

mange tout me old son

 

[lucylogic]

If only we had the time to travel but himself still has 4 yrs before he retires

As we are up North from you it's a long way to travel, Teesside to be exact, so we have at the moment to make this the one and only biggie for us. Pickering war weekend will be coming up for us in October so we will be there for that one as it's only an hour away.
Well got some sorting to do, one can't start too early for this event. Found the tickets, so that's a sigh of relief.
C U there

 

[Parksy]

You do come a long way Lucy, have you ever thought about heading down a day or so early and staying on Woodlands Park, the C&CC certified site just round the corner from Twinwood in Clapham village?
We only travel 100 miles from the West Midlands but we go earlier and stay on this rather endearing CS which has clean toilets, shower and ehu, so that we can get into the queue of caravans on Thursday morning to get a decent pitch not too far from the arena entrance amongst the undead.
We're hoping to go to Pickering perhaps next year, we have too much on this year to be able to fit it all in.
Have a safe journey down and we'll look forward to meeting you all in person at the festival

 

[ChrisUK]

I've had time to find out a bit more regarding power inverters Lucy.
Sine wave inverters are for sensitive electronic equipment like laptops, so for a hairdryer a cheaper modified sine wave inverter would be fine.
I've managed to glean from the internet Here that:
'If the item is motor driven, it requires additional start-up (surge)
wattage (typically 2-3 times the continuous wattage required) to start
the device. For example, a miter saw that runs at 700 watts might
require 1400 watts to start up. If your inverter only supplies 1000
watts, you will not be able to start it up. In this case, you would want
to select an inverter rated at least 1400 surge watts to handle
start-up needs.'
Inverters also draw battery power so I'd suggest that to run your 500 watt hairdryer from a 12v battery which is in good condition you'd need at least a 1500 watt power inverter.
Herself tells me that she's used her hairdryer from our inverter but I don't know the figures offhand because our caravan is in storage at the moment. She reckons that your best bet is the on site hairdressers wall mounted dryers which have mirrors and shelves, and she she thinks the hairdresser opens from Friday daytime onwards.
If you fancy a 40s makeover and can't get an appointment there is another hairdresser who also sells hats, scarves, brooches etc in the traders village.

The surge in current is the motor starting current, the motor wattage will only be a small percentage of the hair dryers rated wattage. Most of the watts are in the heating element.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I thought the 1200 watt inverter would do because I doubled the wattage of the hair dryer and added 20% hence 500x2+20%=1200 which is what I'd read. It worked with a whistle kind of noise then packed in..............

Hello Lucylogic,

I am pretty certain the noise you heard will have been the low battery voltage warning, after which the Inverter automatically turns off. The solution is probably to connect direct to the car battery with as shorter wires as possible, and to run the car engine to ensure the cars alternator is keeping the battery voltage up.

I see no reason why your 1200W inverter should not power your 500W hairdrier. The motor in hair driers is only a fraction of the total power they use. Most of the power is the heating element, so its start current should be well within the 1200W capacity.

I have in the past seen 12V hair driers, which removes the need for an inverter, but I suspect their heating load is only about 120W.