Proposed road tax increases

[Rayc1]

Martin, the RAC thought 250g/km for new vehicles. There are of course many 4x4 well within this limit especially new ones built to European emmission standard IV. Conversely there are lots of cars that have emmissions greater than this.

I predict that the level will be a confusion of rates taking into account the age of vehicles and it will cost more to administer than the income it generates.

I shall carry on driving my 4x4 which has emmissions of 170kg/km knowing that many normal cars will be taxed heavier than me.

 

[Rayc1]

Martin, the RAC thought 250g/km for new vehicles. There are of course many 4x4 well within this limit especially new ones built to European emmission standard IV. Conversely there are lots of cars that have emmissions greater than this.

I predict that the level will be a confusion of rates taking into account the age of vehicles and it will cost more to administer than the income it generates.

I shall carry on driving my 4x4 which has emmissions of 170kg/km knowing that many normal cars will be taxed heavier than me.

Meant 170g/km of course.

 

[cris_408518]

Lutz.

I see it as being very unfair. The governments, manufacurers and oil companies are responsible for the outputs of the vehicle we buy.

In the UK the Government has encouraged the use and manufacture of the vehicles we use and has benefited greatly from all the tax's it gathers from Automotive use and all the spin offs from that business.

For many years we have paid dearly for our vehicles from the basic purchase price right through the whole spectrum of runnng costs whilst are country has been one of the main suppliers of advanced autommotive design, development and research.

Even the German, Japanese, US and other manufacturers use and still rely greatly on the UK for fine tuning of their vehicle advances.

Those that have "large" vehicles in the UK have for years paid a great deal of money for buying and using them. We pay somehwere around 1.4 Euros per litre for Petrol and Diesel and of course unlike many countries in Europe our diesel costs more than Petrol.

So the gas Guzzlers have and are already paying for the pollution that their Government has encouraged as well at the same time as ignooring their own research on the subject.

Our present Government and its Ministers are happy to Burn fuel and pollute with gay abandon as well, but now expect others like myself who allready add greatly to its coffers to pay even more for their poor performance.

 

[cris_408518]

Lutz.

I see it as being very unfair. The governments, manufacurers and oil companies are responsible for the outputs of the vehicle we buy.

In the UK the Government has encouraged the use and manufacture of the vehicles we use and has benefited greatly from all the tax's it gathers from Automotive use and all the spin offs from that business.

For many years we have paid dearly for our vehicles from the basic purchase price right through the whole spectrum of runnng costs whilst are country has been one of the main suppliers of advanced autommotive design, development and research.

Even the German, Japanese, US and other manufacturers use and still rely greatly on the UK for fine tuning of their vehicle advances.

Those that have "large" vehicles in the UK have for years paid a great deal of money for buying and using them. We pay somehwere around 1.4 Euros per litre for Petrol and Diesel and of course unlike many countries in Europe our diesel costs more than Petrol.

So the gas Guzzlers have and are already paying for the pollution that their Government has encouraged as well at the same time as ignooring their own research on the subject.

Our present Government and its Ministers are happy to Burn fuel and pollute with gay abandon as well, but now expect others like myself who allready add greatly to its coffers to pay even more for their poor performance.

1.4 Euros TAX per litre that should be!

 

[CliveV]

Hi Lutz - In answer to your previous question, what I mean by vehicles not up to the job, is those that smear the grass of a field because no grip is afforded with road tyres and two wheel drive.

Also, the guy in a Vectra that lost traction on a wet muddy road on a hill close to Corfe Castle Dorset when I was towing an Ifor Williams trailer with a LR Series III on it and came upon him unexpectedly. Bit of a potential brown trouser job!

The Vectra was a top of the range all singing all dancing model but once he had put his nearside wheel in the mud, that was it! No traction whatsoever and no place for the caravan to be put. Thankfully a guy in a Shogun pulled him up the hill, caravan and all.

Now that is what I call fit for purpose!

If this chap had caused an accident, I wonder who would have got the blame? He probably would get away with "Not my fault Officer! - I was stationary at the time".

Towing with an inadequate vehicle is like climbing Ben Nevis in jeans and a T-shirt. You can do it, but once in a while it really is not advisable.

They say hindsight is a wonderful thing. Personally I prefer foresight.

 

[cris_408518]

I guess I expected no less from this scum Government. I only have to see one of them and thoughts of "Merchant Bankers" and

"Bar Stewards" run through my mind.

If they made a move for all Governement, Council, Forces,Police, Ambulance, Fire Brigade and other State industry to run on gas and greener fuels you could respect them a little more.

Blair could have an electric milk float to get around in

They miss out on so many alternative power opportunities!

No one is going to convince me that Prescott and others when not powering their heat recyling plants and the proposed back door West Minster wind Turbine could not be powering his Jag on excess lard.

Having seen some of Bungle Browns waffle and drivel today you have to think that New Labour is so full of Sh 1 t that they are missing a methane opportunity.

 

[cris_408518]

Hi Lutz - In answer to your previous question, what I mean by vehicles not up to the job, is those that smear the grass of a field because no grip is afforded with road tyres and two wheel drive.

Also, the guy in a Vectra that lost traction on a wet muddy road on a hill close to Corfe Castle Dorset when I was towing an Ifor Williams trailer with a LR Series III on it and came upon him unexpectedly. Bit of a potential brown trouser job!

The Vectra was a top of the range all singing all dancing model but once he had put his nearside wheel in the mud, that was it! No traction whatsoever and no place for the caravan to be put. Thankfully a guy in a Shogun pulled him up the hill, caravan and all.

Now that is what I call fit for purpose!

If this chap had caused an accident, I wonder who would have got the blame? He probably would get away with "Not my fault Officer! - I was stationary at the time".

Towing with an inadequate vehicle is like climbing Ben Nevis in jeans and a T-shirt. You can do it, but once in a while it really is not advisable.

They say hindsight is a wonderful thing. Personally I prefer foresight.

Clive. I have to say that some of these people would do no better with a 4 X 4. Lack of thought and not assessing what is in front of you or beneath you has little to do with two wheel drive or 4 wheel drive.

 

[CliveV]

Hi Lutz - In answer to your previous question, what I mean by vehicles not up to the job, is those that smear the grass of a field because no grip is afforded with road tyres and two wheel drive.

Also, the guy in a Vectra that lost traction on a wet muddy road on a hill close to Corfe Castle Dorset when I was towing an Ifor Williams trailer with a LR Series III on it and came upon him unexpectedly. Bit of a potential brown trouser job!

The Vectra was a top of the range all singing all dancing model but once he had put his nearside wheel in the mud, that was it! No traction whatsoever and no place for the caravan to be put. Thankfully a guy in a Shogun pulled him up the hill, caravan and all.

Now that is what I call fit for purpose!

If this chap had caused an accident, I wonder who would have got the blame? He probably would get away with "Not my fault Officer! - I was stationary at the time".

Towing with an inadequate vehicle is like climbing Ben Nevis in jeans and a T-shirt. You can do it, but once in a while it really is not advisable.

They say hindsight is a wonderful thing. Personally I prefer foresight.

Too be fair to the Vectra driver, the mud was unexpected and he did not know the road well.

But that is really the point. You have to expect the unexpected.

 

[Rayc1]

The results of the budget are: cars registered before 1 March 2001 are: 1549cc and below

 

[Lutz]

Too be fair to the Vectra driver, the mud was unexpected and he did not know the road well.

But that is really the point. You have to expect the unexpected.

It's all a matter of adjusting your driving to suit conditions. For years I towed a 1300kg caravan with a 1.8 Vectra. Whenever I encountered conditions such as those you described, I capitulated without trying and only selected sites with hard standings`or equivalent. It didn't spoil the enjoyment of caravanning, we got everywhere where we wanted to go to, even Iceland, but I agree, I don't have to be so selective since I have a 4x4. On the other hand, I wouldn't describe it as a 'must have' and I expect to pay extra for the luxury.

 

[cris_408518]

So if you have to run a largish car for your business, have a family and kids and elderly relatives Gordon is screwing you again.

If you need a largish car to persue your leisure persuits with equipment that you buy and mostly use in this country again Gordon is Screwing you.

So buy a smart car, sell your leisure gear stuff your old folk and don't have kids and hop on a polluting plane and spend your money abroad on holidays and Gordon will be a happpy bunny!

Gordon Brown and New Labour pulling the same old tricks and stuffing the family man yet again.

Yesterdays a report that since 1999 Brown has only been good for the unemployed, smokers and drinkes and then Gordy Boy confirms it today.

Give it up for Chumpy Brown, what a star.

Of course if you have less kids it will help his useless education policies and labours illegal immigrant crisis ;-)

I suppose you have to give the guy some credit ;-(

 

[giovanni_5060838]

lets get one thing straight, this new car tax is only the start.

more bands will be made and the gap in roadtax between the groups

will widen..

our roadtax system is so old and flawed, that it was only a

matter of time before these different groups would be made.

hopefully it doesn't get as bad as in italy, otherwise u would

find the higher groups being taxed at 3 times the rate of the

more normal groups....

 

[Lol1]

I find it to be great news about the additional tax. As I drive from pothole to pothole, past road works that have no work going on in them, and travel the run down highways and byways of this green and pleasant land, I know the money will be well spent.

On everything but the roads!

You wouldn't mind so much, if you saw some return on it, travel through our European neighbours and you notice how clean and well kept everything is. Germany is a marvel to behold; do they not have litter in Germany, Lutz? The UK is scruffy by comparison, it's the country I was born in but sometimes it's easy to be ashamed of that fact.

At least it answers the question posed by Lutz, "What is the fascination with 4x4s in the UK"? Well the reason is that 50% of the time when cars are on the road, they may as well be off it. Greenlaneing might end up being the fastest way to get from A-B.

 

[CliveV]

Ssssshhh! Lol - even now I am planning an alternative route along the hiways and byways of Rural England to ensure my regular trips to London can be done without paying the M3 congestion charge.

Once in London my new (to me) Tax Exempt due to its age V8 LPG powered Defender will not be subject to the London congestion charge and is able to whiz round using the bus lanes thanks to the ludicrous registration system we have in the UK.

Never has an old Land Rover seemed such good value

LMAO!!!

 

[cris_408518]

Lol in the states they buy many pickups. For a lot it is a fashion thing the same as 4 x4's here.

Nobody worries for ages and then when something gets popular bang, Tax it and moan about what others choose to do with their money.

Friends drive 4.8 X5, they run a good business and choose to spend thetr HARD earned money on 50k car, the government wanted their business and the council encouraged them to the area where they are based as it brought jobs and security to the area.

They could move to a big house and heat that and a pool and blow money on plenty of things or services that effect the environment.

They like what to them is a nice car, so who the hell should be taxing them any more or being rude about what they drive!

 

[Lol1]

Ssssshhh! Lol - even now I am planning an alternative route along the hiways and byways of Rural England to ensure my regular trips to London can be done without paying the M3 congestion charge.

Once in London my new (to me) Tax Exempt due to its age V8 LPG powered Defender will not be subject to the London congestion charge and is able to whiz round using the bus lanes thanks to the ludicrous registration system we have in the UK.

Never has an old Land Rover seemed such good value

LMAO!!!

Start selling green lane maps Clive, we'll split the dosh 40/60 ;o)

 

[rayc]

The BBC headline is " 4x4 Owners bear the brunt of the rises".

This is untrue, the people paying the brunt in % terms of numbers affected are the owners of cars registered prior to March 2001 who have an engine size of 1550cc and above. There are millions of owners in Britain who fall into that catergory. In comparison the number of owners of vehicles, {not just 4x4}, who pay the top rate if they buy from tomorrow is minimal, and dare I say it can afford it without any problem.

It may be ironic that many of them will have been the same people who were calling for 4x4's to be taxed heavily.

 

[Lol1]

Lol in the states they buy many pickups. For a lot it is a fashion thing the same as 4 x4's here.

Nobody worries for ages and then when something gets popular bang, Tax it and moan about what others choose to do with their money.

Friends drive 4.8 X5, they run a good business and choose to spend thetr HARD earned money on 50k car, the government wanted their business and the council encouraged them to the area where they are based as it brought jobs and security to the area.

They could move to a big house and heat that and a pool and blow money on plenty of things or services that effect the environment.

They like what to them is a nice car, so who the hell should be taxing them any more or being rude about what they drive!

Jesus H Christ, it hurts me to agree with you cris and you know it does, but I am on this point. Pollution takes many forms, why should someone who drives a larger car with a larger engine be singled out and penalised, when they are already, at the fuel pump?

Perhaps we should tax new builds, if the house is above a pre-determined size, because it costs more to build environmentally.

Where does it end, do we get charged extra for oversized Easter eggs?

It's ok Tina, it was only a thought, and you can put the knife down now...

 

[Lol1]

The BBC headline is " 4x4 Owners bear the brunt of the rises".

This is untrue, the people paying the brunt in % terms of numbers affected are the owners of cars registered prior to March 2001 who have an engine size of 1550cc and above. There are millions of owners in Britain who fall into that catergory. In comparison the number of owners of vehicles, {not just 4x4}, who pay the top rate if they buy from tomorrow is minimal, and dare I say it can afford it without any problem.

It may be ironic that many of them will have been the same people who were calling for 4x4's to be taxed heavily.

Good point Ray, don't throw stones in glass houses, or should that be don't throw stones in green houses gasses, if the CO2 is above 180g/km?

 

[CliveV]

Well said Ray - once again the BBC shows its true colours of biased journalism. They are calling it the 4x4 tax but in reality it is an emissions tax that hits all high polluting cars.

Shame - just as the BBC had to apologize for hyping up Tony Blair's applause and toning down the opposition leaders it would seem that they are not above "spin" to make the "Truth" that the left wing wingers feel we should have.

 

[giovanni_5060838]

vote tory... tim yale? some tory mp,wants to raise the tax far

far higher on these largwe engined vehicles!

 

[CliveV]

Gio - as you have probably seen from my posts - I think ALL politicians are the same lying bunch of crooks they always have been. Now thanks to Forums like this we can openly discuss our views with many, many people rather than just "sound off" down the pub to a handful.

The point I am making is that for some time the BBC has, quite rightly in my view, been a none too subtle supporter of this tarnished government. The BBC is riddled with left wing "Phony Care" supporters rather than journalists of integrity that allow both sides of an argument.

The Chancellors Emissions Tax is a classic example. The BBC had a guy from Greenpeace stating that "4x4's really are antisocial you know!" - What? - Antisocial in the same way as a lout with an ASBO? What nonsense!

Not a word about all the high polluting 2WD cars that will be hit.

JUST 4x4's

Best thing I shall do is to use my "Gas Guzzler" to drive down to the Polling Station next time and vote for the Monster Raving Loony Party on the basis of their honesty and integrity, which they have in spades compared to all three main parties.

 

[rayc]

Gio - as you have probably seen from my posts - I think ALL politicians are the same lying bunch of crooks they always have been. Now thanks to Forums like this we can openly discuss our views with many, many people rather than just "sound off" down the pub to a handful.

The point I am making is that for some time the BBC has, quite rightly in my view, been a none too subtle supporter of this tarnished government. The BBC is riddled with left wing "Phony Care" supporters rather than journalists of integrity that allow both sides of an argument.

The Chancellors Emissions Tax is a classic example. The BBC had a guy from Greenpeace stating that "4x4's really are antisocial you know!" - What? - Antisocial in the same way as a lout with an ASBO? What nonsense!

Not a word about all the high polluting 2WD cars that will be hit.

JUST 4x4's

Best thing I shall do is to use my "Gas Guzzler" to drive down to the Polling Station next time and vote for the Monster Raving Loony Party on the basis of their honesty and integrity, which they have in spades compared to all three main parties.

Clive, I remember reading somewhere that Screaming Lord sutch proposed something when he was running for election. It was so far fetched everybody laughed and laughed. A couple of years ago it became government policy. I wish I could remember what it was.

 

[rayc]

Clive, I remember reading somewhere that Screaming Lord sutch proposed something when he was running for election. It was so far fetched everybody laughed and laughed. A couple of years ago it became government policy. I wish I could remember what it was.

Clive, it may have been all day opening of pubs. Ray

 

[Lol1]

Me too Clive, we have never bothered voting before, always been happy to go with the majority. Like you said, they are all a bunch of lying hypocrites anyway. Not so now, whatever it is, local election, general election mayor election, we will be down that booth putting our votes in. Did you see that little address to the nation by Gory Gordy about the budget? The false smiles and promises were difficult to watch, much like a decent horror movie. Hope that smirk gets wiped of his face come polling time. Trouble is, who do you vote in?