Question about new Bailey electrics.

[Glenn_5132962]

I picked up my new Series 7 Pageant Bretagne yesterday & flicking through the instruction manual I'm not quite clear where the various switches should be when connected to my towcar (full 13pin electrics) to allow the fridge to work & the battery to charge.

Should the 12v master switch be on? There's no (car/van/off switch).

I understand that the fridge should be switched to the 12v position but there's a sentence in the manual that says the engine should be running otherwise the battery will be flattened. Does this mean the car battery or the van battery? Surely the fridge should not be drawing from the car unless the engine is on?? Does the fridge draw 12v from the van battery until a car is connected & the engine switched on? This seems daft as there's a real danger of wrecking a leisure battery if you forget to switch the fridge off?

 

[JohnStGeorges]

Why do makers keep changing everything. Soon we will have to all go on a three week residential course when we get a new van. To be sure try Kelly at Bailey Bristol. John W

 

[David_374242465]

Providing vehicle connector and 'van are wired correctly, then on newish 'vans when towing, ie above engine idle, with fridge switch at 12v position, it will cool (not very well !) running from the car battery/electrics and the 'van battery will also be charged via a separate circuit. It does not matter what position the "Master" switch is in although it should normally be in Off position, when towing.

Your caravan should be fitted with what are sometimes called "Habitation Relays". These ensure that, when 'van is connected to vehicle, no power whatsoever can be drawn from the 'van battery.

Also, although not applicable to all 'vans,the fridge feed control within the 'van should not take any power, when the engine is switched off, due to sensing a voltage lower than above idle.

Again on most newish 'vans, when not connected to vehicle, your fridge will not run on 12v and will not flatten your 'van battery.

All these functions are controlled with the 'van habitation relays.

Best way to prove all this is to connect to vehicle and try the various combinations to reassure yourself of the funtions in regard to power from 'van and vehicle batteries.

Have fun and enjoy.

Dave

 

[WatsonJohnG]

A relatively recent change is that the fridge does need a low ampage supply from the van battery to operate the electronics and this is not affected by the habitation relay

The cooling element is still supplied from the car battery/alternator when the engine is running as it draws a high current

 

[Glenn_5132962]

Thanks guys but i'm no wiser.

I've re-read the handbook & it still reads like if the fridge is switched to 12v it will draw from the caravan battery unless the car engine is running.

 

[WatsonJohnG]

It won't draw from the caravan battery if you have it wired right

 

[David_374242465]

Glenn, perhaps it would be helpful if you could quote verbatim, what it says in your manual. As JohnG says, the main 12v supply line to your fridge should only go to your Distribution Box, with perhaps a 15Amp fuse in line, then straight to your 13 way connector, Pin 10. Earth (return) for this is via pin 11. The pin 10 supply from your vehicle, should only be powered when the vehicle ignition is ON.

Also as JohnG says, when not connected to vehicle, you may get the small light illuminated on fridge when you select 12v position. However I do not think this is the main 12v feed, but only serves to keep electronic control powered, taking significantly less than 1 Amp.

This is still enough to flatted your 'van battery, over a period of several days, hence you should have fridge in OFF position when not in use. I think this may be what the statement from your manual is refering to.

 

[WatsonJohnG]

Glenn, perhaps it would be helpful if you could quote verbatim, what it says in your manual. As JohnG says, the main 12v supply line to your fridge should only go to your Distribution Box, with perhaps a 15Amp fuse in line, then straight to your 13 way connector, Pin 10. Earth (return) for this is via pin 11. The pin 10 supply from your vehicle, should only be powered when the vehicle ignition is ON.

Also as JohnG says, when not connected to vehicle, you may get the small light illuminated on fridge when you select 12v position. However I do not think this is the main 12v feed, but only serves to keep electronic control powered, taking significantly less than 1 Amp.

This is still enough to flatted your 'van battery, over a period of several days, hence you should have fridge in OFF position when not in use. I think this may be what the statement from your manual is refering to.

I think that your last sentence is right

 

[Glenn_5132962]

Ok word for word out of the manual :-

"The refrigerator is equipped to operate on mains power, 12v dc or liquid gas"

A ittle further down it says:-

"The energy selector switch A has four settings: Off, AC mains voltage, DC (Battery), Gas (liquid gas)"

Further still :-

"Switch on the appliance by turning the energy selection switch A clockwise to position"

Then there's a warning symbol with the following text "IN ORDER TO PREVENT DISCHARGE OF THE ON-BOARD BATTERY, 12V OPERATION SHOULD ONLY BE USED WITH THE MOTOR RUNNING"

Confusing isnt it?

I'm away for the first time in it this weekend so i'll check it out. Might even take my multimeter!!

 

[WatsonJohnG]

It is possible with the car ignition turned on and using 4 pin relays (rather than voltage sensing in the car) to get some feed back via the relay connection to the fridge

I once had this happen when using one relay and the fuse blew so the van battery then just discharged into the fridge

But I now use 2 relays with seperate fuses

It is possible to discharge the van battery then if the car ignition is left on for long periods but then you wouldn't do that says he who did it on the campsite in France last month without the van attached and completely flattened the car battery!!

 

[xtrailman]

I'm just wondering, is it possible that new vans will use the on board battery/psu supply for both the fridge control board and element, when the car is not connected and running?

If so this gives a true 3 way fridge at all times.

A good idea, provided you remember to switch the fridge to off when not in use.

 

[WatsonJohnG]

I don't think so as the fridge heating element is still fed from pin 6 direct from the car battery

The fuse to the electronics on the fridge would not be heavy enough to take the load

 

[David_374242465]

I don't think so as the fridge heating element is still fed from pin 6 direct from the car battery

The fuse to the electronics on the fridge would not be heavy enough to take the load

JohnG, Where did you get this "pin 6" from? On the original posting, it stated 13 pin electrics in use!

Pin 6 on this is for STOP LIGHTS.

 

[David_374242465]

Glenn. As your manual refers to "motor running", I suggest that the reference to "on-board battery" actually means the tow vehicle battery. I think the only way to fully clarify this, is to get Bailey to respond. Call Kelly at the Bailey helpline number given in your documents.

The electrical circuit diagram in the Bailey manual/handbook is unfortunately printed very small and is impossible to decipher in regard to the wiring of 'van.

However the bottom line is that the fridge should only be selected to 12v operation when towing. The 12v operation is design only to maintain a lowish temperature when on the move, and 12v use cannot be regarded as a alternative to 240v mains or gas operation.

The manual actually makes this very clear. So, if you are not connected to an engine running tow vehicle, do not have switch set at 12v!!!!

Simples.........

 

[Stephen_374341239]

Hi there

If i could just cut in here. There is a new fridge just out about 6 months that has a computer chip in it that will draw 12 volts from any source it can to mantain the fridge temp. So if the car say is connected but engine is switched off then the fridge will find the next 12 volt source of power Ie the caravan battery.

There was a warning about this in the Practical Caravan Mag and the caravan club Mag.

Hope this is of some help Janet & Steve.

 

[WatsonJohnG]

Hi David you are quite right pin 6 is for brake lights but the fridge feed from the car on the 12S is on pin 6

If you are on a 13 pin socket its pin 10 for power supply to the fridge and pin 6 for the brake light

 

[WatsonJohnG]

Hi there

If i could just cut in here. There is a new fridge just out about 6 months that has a computer chip in it that will draw 12 volts from any source it can to mantain the fridge temp. So if the car say is connected but engine is switched off then the fridge will find the next 12 volt source of power Ie the caravan battery.

There was a warning about this in the Practical Caravan Mag and the caravan club Mag.

Hope this is of some help Janet & Steve.

I missed that

Which page was it on??

 

[David_374242465]

With Glenn going away in 'van this w/e, hopefully he will take his DVM with him and let us know what he finds out in regard to 12v powering of his fridge.

Measuring volts directly across his 'van battery, it will be quite clear when any significant power is being drawn. Providing the 'van charger is NOT ON, he should see a volts drop of perhaps 0.2 - 0.5 volts switching fridge ON momentarily, then the voltage rise again slightly when switching fridge OFF.

A DC Ampmeter in series with the battery feed, would be the ideal measuring method, but checking voltage should give a fairly good indication if substantial power for fridge is being drawn from 'van battery.

Your standard caravan fridge/freezer on "12v" setting, will draw between 8 - 15Amps to the cooling element. Obviously with this amount of current, running from a non-charging battery would flatten it in a few hours.

(On some fridges, a small amount of current is drawn from the 'van battery for control electronics, perhaps 0.5Amps This would take several days/weeks to drain battery.)

In regard to Stephen's note in mag, auto searching for 12volt supply for fridge, I cannot see any benefit in this. The fridge is a fairly good insulator and will hold temperature for a considerable time, to take care of journey breaks etc when towing to and from sites.

 

[Glenn_5132962]

One final thought. The Bailey handbook appears to have been made by cutting & pasting text from their equipment suppliers instructions. I wonder if the fridge wording is from dometic & refers to the fridge fitting in a motorhome???

 

[WatsonJohnG]

Glenn

That occurred to me too

I remembered a conversation in France this year with someone who had a new motorhome and the fridge worked as described

The leisure battery wouldn't last long without charging up

6 hours would be pushing it so an overnight stop could be longer than anticipated if the motorhome battery was flattened

They used to be equipped with circuitry to isolate the van starter battery though