I made a particular point of describing standard pitches - "standard hard standing or grass" I used the terms precisely as the club has in its statement.
No sorry but booking a specific pitch does produce empty pitches. Say you find a pitch for you available on your dates the 7th to 14th of a month. If that pitch has a booking to the 6th and another from the 15th, that pitch is likely to be empty for two nights either side of your booking. It is possible to lose even more with slightly larger gaps of two or even three days.
With pitches allocated on the day, the site can be fully booked and these gaps will not appear as newcomers simply take the vacated pitches.
I assume sites regard this as a service to clients but it undoubtably does lose a little unless that system only shows pitches to be vacated on the day you arrive as bookable to some extent.. As a system it is not possible to fully book every pitch in the main season, as well as the allocate on the day you arrive or choose your own system.
Commercial sites which allow specific pitch booking seem to have no problem getting full occupancy in peak periods - that was certainly true in pre-computer days so no reason why it can't be done now.
The gaps between specific pitch requests are infilled with the non-specific bookings.
It's much much harder to in-fill booked pitches. It's quite easy to imagine trying to book 2 weeks, to be shown no availability when there are two pitches available for one week each. With a system of book nights, but not pitches, you are guaranteed to get a pitch for your entire stay without having to move pitch. That is not possible for a site that books pitches and is regularly fully booked over a few nights (like peak season weekends).
I can only speak for the commercials we used when our son was a lad and came with us - one site in particular was very popular with return visitors so you needed to book your pitch for next year while you were there - they were fully booked throughout the peak season, all week not just at weekends.
Not really, lots of presumptions in your statement to make your argument fit.
How many CC members have been unable to book a site because their specific duration wasn't available?
Happened to us countless times result empty pitches
I know of only one site that has a Friday to Friday booking policy, if it still does was years back, the reality of working sites are people book arrival dates and durations to suit them therfore are varied, so your arguement isn't really a valid one as a computerised system of allocated pitches is going to be far more efficient than a warden putting cones out to reserve pitches for incoming larger vans who need that size putting that pitch out of use for days, again something I've seen often.
Beauty of picking your pitch for the client is knowing what your getting and if travelling as a group booking pitches next door.
For the site in reality it maximises occupancy and reduces office staff whom on a large site years back, Monkey Tree Cornwall showed me their booking system/pitch allocation when I visited out of season to try and book 4 pitches next door to each other.
And in the fact commercial sites, some huge, use this type of system successfully is like arguing against the tide coming in.
The CC model was ultimately what made us leave as our weekend bookings around 10 a year always resulted in the high season with us getting the rubbish pitch as we arrived on Saturdays, that and the introduction of more price banding.
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Whatever system is used there will be gaps as described by Ray. These days we deliberately avoid travelling on a Saturday so we cause the issue Ray mentions. All the commercials we use allow choice of pitch at point of booking. This gives me certainty knowing our choice gives us the best view, nearest to the dog walk, and best sat tv signal, ie no trees obscuring line of sight.
There are flaws in all systems. Strange CAMC have never imo properly addressed all the concerns that get repeated every year.
Surely a senior member of CAMC management could post a response on here😜😜
There are flaws in all systems. Strange CAMC have never imo properly addressed all the concerns that get repeated every year.
Surely a senior member of CAMC management could post a response on here😜😜
I have had some details directly from the club in the last few days about the changes being introduced.
We will be able to specify the TYPE of STANDARD PITCH i e Standard hardstanding or Standard Grass. (There has never been any discussion about booking specific pitches).
The deposits will be 25% of the booking.
Auto payment of the balance the day before arrival which will enable us to get sent through the entrance without visiting reception. Members can chose to opt out of this.
The cancellation deadline will be 21 days prior to arrival. They have not said what happens to the deposit, and I think this is still being discussed.
That cancellation period is about par for the course. The CCC allow cancellation up to 31 days before with full refund. You can move your touring booking at no cost up to 10 days before arrival. At one time cancelled booking deposits were rolled into an escrow account to be used before 31 December of that year. But I think that went out of use some while back but can’t be certain.
one thing that came to light under first lockdown was refunds, sites didn't want to as Visa charged for the transaction, had a long very friendly talk with one site we had booked the owner was at the end of their tether and feared going bankrupt.
So when it comes to refunding deposit, and this goes for every enterprise their could/will be a cost
So when it comes to refunding deposit, and this goes for every enterprise their could/will be a cost
Parksy
Moderator
The CAMC have their own internet forum.
If they wanted to respond no doubt it would be on their own platform.
Sorry, but if pitches are free for one or two nights there is no possibility of them all being taken on most sites. The owners of these sites simply take the loss as a service to customers, but possibly add a bit to the pitch fee to compensate.
I guess it only works at popular sites then - the not-so popular ones don't get full occupancy under any system.
I think with, or without Covid the CMHC were getting bad feedback regarding how their booking system worked. It has just taken them a long while to respond. I have no qualms about having deposit returned in normal times if the request is in line with the sites terms and conditions. But I agree with you that in these difficult times if a cancellation is required through having covid, or because of HMG policies then a roll over is often better. Some commercial sites are now offering cancellation insurance, and of course you can always get travel policies that cover UK booked holidays.
Do travel policies cover pre-existing conditions? For some of us the exclusions make insurance a nonsense.
Yes many do. But I think you might have answered your own question then? It's a question of cost versus benefit and a matter for each individual to decide.
Regards to booking specific pitches. I don’t see the problem. Clearly there are pros and cons, but for customer services, being able to choose has to be best. You wouldn’t dream of going to the theatre without being allocated seats, the booking system works and need be no different.
Airplane travel tend to like to allocate seats on arrival. Yet, for an extra cost miraculously you can book. For long haul flights my travel agent offered free seat allocation. When we got to Heathrow there was a family who had tried to book seats 6 months earlier but were told it was not possible. They were all split up and not happy, especially when we told them we had booked.
John
Airplane travel tend to like to allocate seats on arrival. Yet, for an extra cost miraculously you can book. For long haul flights my travel agent offered free seat allocation. When we got to Heathrow there was a family who had tried to book seats 6 months earlier but were told it was not possible. They were all split up and not happy, especially when we told them we had booked.
John
That is a different issue. Having a site overbooked because there is no penalty for a missed or canceled booking is a different problem to that associated with booking a specific pitch. Certainly we have not been able to book nights we wanted on a CMC site because it was already booked up.
The efficiency of the system (computerised or warden driven pen and paper) is an independent problem to that of maximum fill. If you allow booking of a specific resource from an available pool (in this case a specific pitch from a group of pitches) with no constraint on start or stop time (date) and min or maximum reservation, then, for a highly used set of resources you end up with gaps.
If you allow the scheduler to allocated the specific resource used at the time of use, then it is possible to allocate all the resources at 100% usage over any given period.
I am not denying that some sites do this; either allow customers to book their own specific pitch, or allocate a specific pitch (or pitches) for a customer (or customers) to use. It is indeed a nice service to offer. But at busy times, it is undeniable that pre-booked pitches are harder to fill that non-prebooked.
Which is an interesting outcome of the specific vs non-specific booking system. For the user, pre-booked is better as you know what you will get WHEN (and if) you can get it. For non-prebooked, you may not know exactly what you will get, but you will have the freedom to book later and know you will still get on site.
Its definitely a plus for the customer, but your Heathrow story bears out the fact that if you want to full schedule your resource (sell all your seats) you need flexibility in the way the resources are allocated at the end to fill in gaps.
However, filling seats on planes and in theatres is a different problem to filling pitches on sites, unless you treat them as one-night only bookings and don't guarantee the same pitch from night to night.
Whilst it can be advantageous to choose pitches the two commercial sites I used in 2020, The Old Brick Kilns in Norfolk, and Wareham Forest Touring Park both allocated pitches, but you could choose pitch type (hard, grass, fsp) and the area of the park where pitches of your choice were located. But we at least got the stay we wanted in the sites that we wanted. Both required deposits and payment in full 30 days before arrival. As did the CL in Yorkshire too, but we did have a free choice of the available pitches which fortunately had low occupancy rate on our day of arrival. So we had a very good position. A day later and for the next fortnight occupancy was nearly 100 per cent.
Tobes I think ypur struggling because your trying to make the CC system fit into the t'other
As I said earlier the "Dates Entered" and "Duration" is the deciding factor on what pitches are available, your scenario really needs an exceptional set of circumstance and isnt limited to pre picking a pitch as I've said plenty of pitches on CC model are not taken because duration of stay isn't available so "gaps" as you term do and will probably happen far more on a manual system rather than computer based.
In my 4 years going to the same site that had pitch pre booking I saw full occupancy pre summer which included pitch and store, tents, grass, hardstanding, fully serviced, large or small sized pitches and seasonal.
As I said earlier the "Dates Entered" and "Duration" is the deciding factor on what pitches are available, your scenario really needs an exceptional set of circumstance and isnt limited to pre picking a pitch as I've said plenty of pitches on CC model are not taken because duration of stay isn't available so "gaps" as you term do and will probably happen far more on a manual system rather than computer based.
In my 4 years going to the same site that had pitch pre booking I saw full occupancy pre summer which included pitch and store, tents, grass, hardstanding, fully serviced, large or small sized pitches and seasonal.
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However, all the clients are there for a performance slot, nothing like the fragmented nature of holidays on campsites many of us want. Much the same with the aircraft flight, it does not have people coming and going during the flight.
The selection model works where it is a unique event, though has issues in things like camping where there is an ongoing turnover; but we could cure the issue making this also into a unique event, as many holiday operations, all have to leave by noon Saturday, all are free to arrive after noon on Saturday to take up the identified pitches.
Though I suspect many would not like that overly.
I agree there are more complications than my analogies suggested. But nothing a little programming could not handle. Some sites don’t have a problem and have allowed selection successfully for years even with manual systems.
I think current systems are more to do with tradition and a reluctance to change and be more customer focused.
I have had to timetable teaching staff into rooms, subject specific, number sensitive, specialist sensitive, equipment sensitive, date and day restricted, even timed to suit bus timetables. And all in opposition to others attempting to get the same rooms at the same time. All with directors trying to get full accomodaion with no redundancy. Difficult, yes. But possible, despite being far more complex.
John
Not struggling. The CC system works with start and end date, but doesn't offer a specific pitch (just a pitch type). There is 0 difference between a computer operated system and manual system other than ease of use for both booker and bookee.
\Imagine you have a CL or CS with reservable pitches (top diagram). Blue represents nights already booked. 5 separate campers try to book space in order green, orange grey purple red and yellow. Green asks for 6 nights from the 4th and is offered 2 possibilities A and B. C D and E are already busy. She likes A and books it for 6 nights from the 4th to the 9th. Then along comes orange looking for 5 nights from the 5th - again 2 possibilities open, B and C. He picks B. And so on. Eventually Yellow takes a look at the site and asks for 5 nights from the 3rd, but the site is full. It has no possibility of a 5 night stay without moving pitch.
Now execute the same process, but without specific pitch reservation. As each camper requests a pitch, the only requirement for the booking system is to see if one of any of the pitches is free that night. If the answer is yes, then a booking is accepted.
On the day of arrival (3rd), yellow arrives to find 4 pitches occupied, and one free. They pitch on A. The next morning the occupier of B packs up and leaves. Green pulls on site and finds a free space and they pitch, and so on. On the 8th, Yellow has completed their stay, and move on leaving the site free for Red to occupy.
Booking a specific pitch offers fewer spaces over all IF you allow free constraint over start date and stay length. If a site is popular enough, you may find individual campers prepared to modify their own needs to fit in (I know we have in the past to get onto certain CMC sites), but does make the possibility of stranded pitch nights much more real.
Timetabling is a different problem. There you (as the timetabler) have total control over who goes where and for how long. Booking pitches does not give you (the site manager) that freedom IF you want to offer specific pitches.
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