Rip off government b+e test

[Parksy]

I just taken the training for the b+e towing test, as I have the new license. Talk about the government making more money from nothing. I have been towing trailers and small caravans for about 10 years, but now as we want a bigger van we need the bigger car, so I booked myself in for the training and test. What a con. I only spent 30 minutes reversing the rest of it was simply driving on the roads as normal. As far as I'm concerned it hasn't got anything to do with towing, it's simply just a refresher driving test. What makes me laugh is that a normal driving test is 40 minutes. When this test is 1hr 30. I wouldn't mind if it was all about towing but it isn't it's all about driving. Making sure the handbrake is on at junctions checking ur mirrors etc etc. I was always taught the best way to slow a car down with a van on the back is to go through the gears, not now though. Because of save the earth crap u mustn't do that no because apparently you waste 1 mile per gallon in fuel doing it the old way, so they have to teach you this new way. Great so if your brakes happen to fail with 2 tonne on the back, these newly taught drivers won't have a clue on how to stop. Yeah this really is a great course. I've been driving for 15 years now, fair enough I can understand to have say a five year limit before you can tow, to gain experience. Would like to hear anyone else's views on this money making government scheme.

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

hi sorry you are disgruntled by your experience but I would have only 2 comments to make .
1. you have posted this in the wrong section should have been in towing driving and safety.
2. any course or test is about the driving ask anyone who has done their HGV, driving methods change as time goes on the test is scrutinised accordingly, I well remember taking my daugher out pre test for some practice and being horrified that she was learned to block gear change and pull up at junctions without changing down, "oh she said that how it is done now" she was right passed first time,
but I would not let her drive me anywhere untill she did it properly.

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

seems point 1. was premature, thanks parksy "just guessing??"

 

[Parksy]

Night Owl !

Yes Colin, I moved the topic to obtain the views of a wider audience than that which would have looked in on 'Our Website' but full marks for spotting the thread before I moved it

 

[Parksy]

p.s. As an old time HGV driver I agree with your point Colin about changing test criteria, between passing my class 3 and class 1 three years later 'mass changes' or block gear changes seemed to have become fashionable.
At the end of the day the method of testing doesn't really matter too much as long as the examiner is satisfied beyond doubt that you are competent to drive or tow to the required standard, so congratulations on passing.
Welcome to the Practical Caravan Forum by the way AliandMarky

 

[Surfer]

I always use the engine to slow down because if you had to continuely apply brakes you would suffer from "brake fade". What if you are travelling down a long steep hill and need to apply brakes continously. You would be lucky to have any effective brakes left before you got to the bottom.
BTW if you had to continously apply brakes would that not cause an environmental problem with brake dust which is more dangerous than the discharge from your exhaust.

 

[Martin24]

I'm glad we both have old licences but it would be interesting to know what the CC and C&CC teach on their courses for slowing down and staying in control of the vehicle. We change down and will continue to do so regardless of what is supposedly environmentally friendly, we'll also continue to drive a gas guzzling four wheel drive to get our white box into the middle of a field hundreds of miles from home. In travelling those miles we will change gear as we need to, stay in control, not waste our brakes and stay safer, especially on the long downhills!!

 

[anotherDavid]

I'm glad we both have old licences but it would be interesting to know what the CC and C&CC teach on their courses for slowing down and staying in control of the vehicle. We change down and will continue to do so regardless of what is supposedly environmentally friendly, we'll also continue to drive a gas guzzling four wheel drive to get our white box into the middle of a field hundreds of miles from home. In travelling those miles we will change gear as we need to, stay in control, not waste our brakes and stay safer, especially on the long downhills!!

Some time ago I attended an IAM course and the use of brakes instead of gearbox to slow down was put forward then as "brakes and discs are cheaper to replace than clutch or gearbox" I tend to do a bit of both but am with you on changing down on downhill runs.
David

 

[Surfer]

I'm glad we both have old licences but it would be interesting to know what the CC and C&CC teach on their courses for slowing down and staying in control of the vehicle. We change down and will continue to do so regardless of what is supposedly environmentally friendly, we'll also continue to drive a gas guzzling four wheel drive to get our white box into the middle of a field hundreds of miles from home. In travelling those miles we will change gear as we need to, stay in control, not waste our brakes and stay safer, especially on the long downhills!!

Some time ago I attended an IAM course and the use of brakes instead of gearbox to slow down was put forward then as "brakes and discs are cheaper to replace than clutch or gearbox" I tend to do a bit of both but am with you on changing down on downhill runs.
David

When I did my advanced you had to use the engine to the best advantage, i.e. you are slowing down using brakes only and you suddenly need to accelerate as in an emergency, you are stuffed! If it is a diesel car bring up the revs will help clean the DPF.

 

[ProfJohnL]

There has to a be a degree of good sense used here. It is true that the frequency of gear changing when using engine breaking rises and that will affect the life of the clutch and associated components. but when preparing to negotiate a long and relatively steep hill the use of engine braking is clearly advantageous, especially as the alternative of using friction brakes alone will cause extra wear.

However when considering engine breaking with a caravan in tow, the extra weight of the caravan means you have monitor the engine speed more closely.

One of my employers had a diesel Puegeot boxer van. a relatively inexperienced driver was taking a full load to a customer, and there was a long hill on the route. He apparently slipped the van into a lower gear for the hill, but the engine braking was not enough for the weight of the load, and he managed to overspeed the engine which did some rather expensive damage.

I also as a young driver had an engine failure probably due using a form of engine breaking. One of my earliest cars was a Saab 93 similar to the type Paddy Hopkirk rallied. These had a three cylinder 2 stroke engine, which were quite distinctive and sound not unlike a modern straight six. But being 2 stroke I had not fully appreciated that the engine needed enough fuel to pass through it to keep it lubricated. The cars were fitted with a lockable free-wheel system, which meant that under high speeds and when the throttle was lifted, the engine would fall rapidly to its idling speed, and the amount of fuel to keep it idling was enough to keep it lubricated. However on a long motorway journey I had forgotten to unlock the free-wheel and on the exit to my turning I let the car decelerate under engine breaking and just as reached the off-slip-road bang- a piston went through the side of the engine block.

So its a question of balance and understanding the capabilities of the vehicle.

 

[Surfer]

Surely HGV drivers have to use the engine for braking?

 

[extrucker1]

hi, most modern lorries are fitted with some kind of exhaust brake.a 5 stage jake brake will will ****** a 44 tonner up as good as a light foot brake. ray.

 

[nickmac73]

i wish the brakes on my car were as good as the ones on my lorry thats for sure...

 

[Gafferbill]

……the whole point of the B+E training and the test is to make sure that the applicant for the license upgrade has the right driving skills and knows how to put them into practise.
Reversing the potentially larger and heavier vehicle is just one of these skills.

Braking heavier vehicles does indeed rely mainly on using the service brakes (foot brake) as this is the most efficient system fitted and available.
The service brakes act on all the wheels and maximises the grip of all the tyres in contact with the road in all weather conditions and minimises the skid risk.
Engine braking is now considered a secondary system except in HGVs where engine revs have to be kept high to maintain air pressure in their braking systems.
Unlike years gone by, modern braking systems are designed to cope as long as they are maintained.

Drivers of heavier vehicles are all taught the importance of applying the hand brake whenever the vehicle is stationary (even at junctions)
Failure to do this in a HGV test is an instant fail.
Most car drivers fail to do this and their poorer driving skills are advertised by their brake lights when stationary.

B+E training is all about correcting this type of mistake which is more critical with a heavier/ larger vehicle.
I would advise any driver against complacency and to be ready to be taught something new as vehicles and advice changes and evolves.

…..I give this advice to myself