Running Dometic Under counter Refrigerator.. Gas/Generator/Solar..

[Daxrank]

Hi All,
My first post! I have just moved into living in a 2022 Baileys D4-4 while building my house. So i will be in here for a while
I Love the caravan but I'm still getting to know the best way to run things.(I've only been in it 2 nights so far).
I am completely off grid and at the moment have a good little generator I use a few hours a day.
It works well to turn on when I want to make a cup of tea in the morning. Heat the water for a shower (well i hope this will work I've not actually done it yet) or charge my laptop.

The one problem I'm having is the fridge.. it doesn't like to stay on when I turn off the mains and go back to the leisure battery.. even tho the battery is fully charged it beeps at me. I can't find a lot of information about the fridge even tho i have all the booklets. Does anyone know the wattage??

I have only put the gas on at the moment to cook with and didn't want to rely on gas as its so much more expensive than my generator that seems to do really well on fuel.

But, Does anyone know how much gas the fridge would use running it full time on gas? and is this recommended? Maybe it is my only option.

I can obviously switch it over to mains when I'm running the generator but that is only a hour or two in the morning and evening so not a lot.

My other option is to get solar fitted. Unfortunately my caravan came with a TV Arial not the solar panel on the roof.

Does anyone know what price changing this over to solar would be? I'm wondering if it would be worth my time.
Or if a independent solar panel could somehow be connected to the battery. s..but then i guess the fridge would still not want to run off the battery.
I've looked at units like the Jackary and they are a option, but very expensive and I'm trying to keep costs down as I'l be spending a lot on a proper solar unit once my house is built!

Thanks for any help

 

[Mr Plodd]

Your fridge requires 230v electric, or gas to operate. It will NOT run just off the 12v leisure battery.
If you get a solar panel fitted that will only recharge your 12v leisure battery. And won't run your fridge. Mains electric or gas are your ONLY options to power your fridge, sorry!

 

[birdman101]

You cannot run fridge on 12 v only as stated above you only have choice of 240v or Gas,

 

[otherclive]

A fridge will have no problem working continuously on gas, but as you say you want to keep costs down, but it may be unavoidable given your off grid situation.

 

[Dustydog]

Welcome to the forum Daxrank.
It may surprise you that running the fridge on gas may be more economic than you think.
Depending on the model you will get somewhere between 15 days to six weeks on a 6kg propane cylinder.
Your Manual should tell you the expected gas consumption per setting.

 

[Beachball]

Hi Daxrank Welcome to the forum like what someone else says your fridge running on gas and it might be more economic just make sure you have two 6kg propane cylinder when one runs out put the other one on .

 

[Daxrank]

Thank you all for your answers! I think I was worried having gas constantly turned on feels dangerous.. but if its ok to run the fridge in that way i will give it a go and see how long a bottle lasts.. thank you all !!

 

[otherclive]

Thank you all for your answers! I think I was worried having gas constantly turned on feels dangerous.. but if its ok to run the fridge in that way i will give it a go and see how long a bottle lasts.. thank you all !!

Did your caravan come with a carbon monoxide detector. If not best to buy one. You will sleep more soundly, and importantly wake up too😂

And welcome to the Forum

 

[Jcloughie]

Fridge working off gas will not be a problem. As it seems the van will be sited where it is for an extended time, perhaps even through next winter, consider getting a large propane bottle as the gas will work out cheaper. Or a refillable.

John

 

[ProfJohnL]

Caravan fridges are designed to be able to run continually on LPG. The fridge, space and water heaters combustion appliance should all be "Room Sealed and vent their exhaust fumes only out side and not into the living space. Provided the gas systems are correctly maintained and checked they should be perfectly safe to use 24/7. Its only the cooker hob, grill and oven that might pose a risk, but as these are intermittently used the normal ventilation in the caravan should cope with theses appliances.

Having a Carbon Monoxide monitor inside the caravan is considered essential these days for added safety.

It has to be said I am unaware of any small ICE generators that can be called "high efficiency" The laws of thermodynamics can't be broken, and without the benefits of large scale applications where no expense is spared on achieving better efficiencies, small consumer generators barely reach 15% conversion from the energy in the fuel to usable electricity.

Assuming 10kWh of energy is contained in a litre of Dino juice fuel at best you will get out about 1.5kWh of usable power form each litre of fuel consumed. All the rest is lost as heat and noise. I suggest you carefully consider what energy you do need and look at how that might be better generated.

However its difficult to make a direct comparison about the relative efficiencies of powering a caravan fridge from gas or electricity. The fridge has a thermostat switch which will cut the mains power to the heating element when the fridge reaches it low temperature limit set by the user control, sot it will not consume any mains electrical power when its cold enough. But unless you have a modern fridge which uses full cycle gas control which also turn off the burner flame when the fridge is cool enough, Without that function the gas flame continues to burn even if its effect is not needed. So during the fridge's OFF cycle, the gas is effectively wasted.

If you have grid mains power available, run the fridge on that, its a no brainer, but if your generating locally, then whilst the generator will reduce its fuel consumption to idle when the fridge element is turned off, the set will probably still use more fuel keeping it idling than if the fridge was cooling!

I suggest only run the generator for those devices where you definitely need mains power. Do not use the generator to ONLY power the fridge, use gas. Just for the sheer inconvenience of having to go around the caravan turning items on and off depending on when you have the generator running, I'd be inclined to just run the fridge on gas.

 

[Daxrank]

Did your caravan come with a carbon monoxide detector. If not best to buy one. You will sleep more soundly, and importantly wake up too😂

And welcome to the Forum

Thank you Yes it did, so all should be ok. Im just overly worrying. Especially when im not there and leaving the fridge on still. But it will be fine

 

[Daxrank]

Fridge working off gas will not be a problem. As it seems the van will be sited where it is for an extended time, perhaps even through next winter, consider getting a large propane bottle as the gas will work out cheaper. Or a refillable.

John

Thank you John, Yes i did wonder about getting a really large bottle as it would work out cheaper/need changing alot less! But the large bottle would have to sit outside the caravan with the gas door open.
It says not to do this in my hand book but i can't see why.
The only thing is i will be putting a awning up so the bottle would sit inside the awning. I can't see how this is any different from it being situated inside the carvan box tho.. if there was a leak from the gas under the box,it would still head out to my awning so surly standing a large one with in the awning is ok!?

 

[Daxrank]

Caravan fridges are designed to be able to run continually on LPG. The fridge, space and water heaters combustion appliance should all be "Room Sealed and vent their exhaust fumes only out side and not into the living space. Provided the gas systems are correctly maintained and checked they should be perfectly safe to use 24/7. Its only the cooker hob, grill and oven that might pose a risk, but as these are intermittently used the normal ventilation in the caravan should cope with theses appliances.

Having a Carbon Monoxide monitor inside the caravan is considered essential these days for added safety.

It has to be said I am unaware of any small ICE generators that can be called "high efficiency" The laws of thermodynamics can't be broken, and without the benefits of large scale applications where no expense is spared on achieving better efficiencies, small consumer generators barely reach 15% conversion from the energy in the fuel to usable electricity.

Assuming 10kWh of energy is contained in a litre of Dino juice fuel at best you will get out about 1.5kWh of usable power form each litre of fuel consumed. All the rest is lost as heat and noise. I suggest you carefully consider what energy you do need and look at how that might be better generated.

However its difficult to make a direct comparison about the relative efficiencies of powering a caravan fridge from gas or electricity. The fridge has a thermostat switch which will cut the mains power to the heating element when the fridge reaches it low temperature limit set by the user control, sot it will not consume any mains electrical power when its cold enough. But unless you have a modern fridge which uses full cycle gas control which also turn off the burner flame when the fridge is cool enough, Without that function the gas flame continues to burn even if its effect is not needed. So during the fridge's OFF cycle, the gas is effectively wasted.

If you have grid mains power available, run the fridge on that, its a no brainer, but if your generating locally, then whilst the generator will reduce its fuel consumption to idle when the fridge element is turned off, the set will probably still use more fuel keeping it idling than if the fridge was cooling!

I suggest only run the generator for those devices where you definitely need mains power. Do not use the generator to ONLY power the fridge, use gas. Just for the sheer inconvenience of having to go around the caravan turning items on and off depending on when you have the generator running, I'd be inclined to just run the fridge on gas.

Hi,
Thank you for taking the time to reply.
And for confirming the applicances saftey.. I do have a carbon monoxide alarm so hopefully all shall be well!

I was hoping I could have the fridge on morning and evening when I was running the generator for other things..and that the battery would tick it over for a few hours till i turned the generator on again a few hours later.
But that isn't possible so it looks like I will have to run it continuously and in that case gas is my only option.

As you explained - its a nuicense if the gas is constantly used, even when the fridge doesn't really need it. So running it feels like a waste.
But i agree.. I definitly wouldnt have the generator running all day. It wouldnt be efficient then.
The generator just seems good now as im only turning it on 'as and when'.. and its only used under a liter of fuel in 3 days so far.. So if im only paying a pound every few days for my energy consumption then im happy

 

[Mel]

Just Googled a picture of your model of van. Bailey usually put the gas locker on the offside; but in the D4 it seems to in the middle of the near side. Somewhat daft arrangement. Others may know better than me if an awning would allow sufficient ventilation to deal with leaks; and the potential for fire risk.
Mel

 

[Daxrank]

Just Googled a picture of your model of van. Bailey usually put the gas locker on the offside; but in the D4 it seems to in the middle of the near side. Somewhat daft arrangement. Others may know better than me if an awning would allow sufficient ventilation to deal with leaks; and the potential for fire risk.
Mel

Yes it seems a silly placement doesn't it. Its right behind the entrance door..and as im sleeping up the other way in bed..right by my head as i sleep!

The previous owners used to have the awning up a lot so im sure it is fine.. but they used it for holidays not full time living. I'm sure the awnings arnt built to be full time use either, so i will probably have to take it down when the weather gets rough again..but will see how i go.

Even if i had no awning but had to leave the gas door open to go to a large bottle outside i can't really see how this is a problem. I would tie the door down steady and could keep it covered to protect the connection from the weather ... I feel like that should be ok!

 

[otherclive]

Yes it seems a silly placement doesn't it. Its right behind the entrance door..and as im sleeping up the other way in bed..right by my head as i sleep!

The previous owners used to have the awning up a lot so im sure it is fine.. but they used it for holidays not full time living. I'm sure the awnings arnt built to be full time use either, so i will probably have to take it down when the weather gets rough again..but will see how i go.

Even if i had no awning but had to leave the gas door open to go to a large bottle outside i can't really see how this is a problem. I would tie the door down steady and could keep it covered to protect the connection from the weather ... I feel like that should be ok!

Some awnings are left up all year. The materials and restraints possibly supplemented with additional guys, are sufficiently robust to withstand inclement weather. Better as being on site you can see if anything needs attention. Although if storms are predicted taking it down is a prudent move unless in a sheltered spot.

 

[Jcloughie]

Thank you John, Yes i did wonder about getting a really large bottle as it would work out cheaper/need changing alot less! But the large bottle would have to sit outside the caravan with the gas door open.
It says not to do this in my hand book but i can't see why.
The only thing is i will be putting an awning up so the bottle would sit inside the awning. I can't see how this is any different from it being situated inside the carvan box tho.. if there was a leak from the gas under the box,it would still head out to my awning so surly standing a large one with in the awning is ok!?

I don’t see why you would need to leave the door open. A longer gas pipe can be fed up into the gas box through the vents in the gas box floor.

Gas bottles are fine outside, and can be a short distance away. Propane will not freeze in UK temperatures. If necessary, it could be chained to something. Your handbook will say not to do this, as they are assuming you are using the van as a tourer.

Is it feasible to have a temporary electricity supply to your site. Useful for your caravan, and for building operations.

John

 

[Mr Plodd]

There's a "drop vent" in tge bottom of your caravans gas locker, so you could run the feed from a large cylinder up through that to your regulator and thus have the gas locker door shut.
My only thoughts on using a large cylinder is the length of high pressure pigtail hose that will be required twixt cylinder and regulator. I would be inclined to explore the possibility of a refillable cylinder (Safefill for example) But BEFORE you spend out check that you have a nearby location that sells LPG (usually a garage forecourt) and secondly AND VITAL that they will permit you to refill your cylinder as a large proportion will ONLY allow LPG to be dispensed to a permanently located cylinder with a dedicated filling point built into the caravan/car/MH

 

[ProfJohnL]

Just a heads up about using a larger gas cylinder standing out side. some points to check out.

Some sites will not allow external gas cylinders at all.

Or if they do they may require the cylinder to be in a cage which cannot be easily removed or knocked over.

You should consider the security of the cylinder against theft.

 

[otherclive]

Just a heads up about using a larger gas cylinder standing out side. some points to check out.

Some sites will not allow external gas cylinders at all.

Or if they do they may require the cylinder to be in a cage which cannot be easily removed or knocked over.

You should consider the security of the cylinder against theft.

Prof the OP has his caravan on his own land whilst he is having his house built.

 

[Daxrank]

I don’t see why you would need to leave the door open. A longer gas pipe can be fed up into the gas box through the vents in the gas box floor.

Gas bottles are fine outside, and can be a short distance away. Propane will not freeze in UK temperatures. If necessary, it could be chained to something. Your handbook will say not to do this, as they are assuming you are using the van as a tourer.

Is it feasible to have a temporary electricity supply to your site. Useful for your caravan, and for building operations.

John

Oh yes thats a good point - going through the gas box floor vents with a longer gas pipe!! I will definitely be looking into doing this! Thank you
No temporary electric around.. I'm right in the sticks in the welsh mountains..my new home is going to be completely off grid too. And all my closest neighbors are off grid too. We've managed building wise so far with trust old generators and water from my river

 

[Daxrank]

Prof the OP has his caravan on his own land whilst he is having his house built.

The OP has her caravan on her land while she is building the house herself x

 

[Daxrank]

There's a "drop vent" in tge bottom of your caravans gas locker, so you could run the feed from a large cylinder up through that to your regulator and thus have the gas locker door shut.
My only thoughts on using a large cylinder is the length of high pressure pigtail hose that will be required twixt cylinder and regulator. I would be inclined to explore the possibility of a refillable cylinder (Safefill for example) But BEFORE you spend out check that you have a nearby location that sells LPG (usually a garage forecourt) and secondly AND VITAL that they will permit you to refill your cylinder as a large proportion will ONLY allow LPG to be dispensed to a permanently located cylinder with a dedicated filling point built into the caravan/car/MH

Yes the drop vent is a great idea-
I will have a look around and see if there is any thing like safefill near me and how much cheaper they are!