Say "YES" to 4x4 tax

[Alun_5074008]

I have just been reading your PRIZE LETTER in the SEPTEMBER 2005 issue with total disbelief!

Peter Coxell writes about "Lazy mothers who can't be bothered to walk a few hundred yards with their obese children" thus using their 4x4s while he openly admits changing to a bigger van with a fixed bed because he and his wife like the CONVENIENCE of not having to make up their bed every night, therefore changing his 2L mondeo for a 4x4. What a contradiction! While he feels it's fine for him and his good lady wife to be too lazy to make up their bed, it's not fine for any parent to drive their children to school in all weathers. Shame on you Mr Coxell. I am new to the caravan brigade but I tow my avondale dart with a ford focus because I don't want to lug a 4x4 around for the rest of the time when I am not towing. I'm not an environmental protestor nor am I a lazy parent, caravan owner or show off who all drive these pointless vehicles with total disregard for others or the environment. Seeing as Mr&Mrs coxell will not have the money to pay the huge tax that is rumoured to be introduced on these 4x4 monsters then why on earth did he go and buy a NEW one.

Shame on you PRACTICAL CARAVAN for giving away £40.00 worth of towsure vouchers to this man, he gives genuine 4x4 owners a bad name.

Alun Jones

 

[Pete4]

Alun,

Well put. I've already wrote more than my fair share of comments on the 4x4 subject so I wont comment any further than:

You da man.

 

[Lol1]

Ah, cunning plan to re-open the 4x4 debate! Is there anything significant that anyone can add, or are we all done now?

 

[Bri2]

Looks like a lot of people don't half spit the dummy out when 4 x 4s are mentioned, have a nice day!!!!!!

 

[354]

Looks like a lot of people don't half spit the dummy out when 4 x 4s are mentioned, have a nice day!!!!!!

You dont hear people moaning about large executuive cars or about families jetting off for luxury holidays all over the world with the reultant polution from aircraft and large hotel complexes scaring previously beutiful areas so why why pick on 4x4 owners and fixed bed vans? It is individuals choice.

 

[Daventura]

Ive got a fixed bed caravan and tow with a focus cmax with ease, no need for a 4x4, I had one for a time until I became sensible. Lets have the

 

[parker1158]

Heated debates on 4x4x's, I hadn't noticed any, when was that,

have I missed something.

 

[CliveV]

The only thing about a 4x4 that the anti's do not like is the fact that they are taller. This DOES make them safer than lower vehicles because of the greater visibility and no amount of whinging, dummy spitting childish foot stamping will make this fact go away.

The road "footprint" of a 4x4 is usually less than most luxury saloons and the emmissions of most comparible, and in some notable cases better than many smaller cars.

It is acknoledged by those that actually know and have experience that when towing anything, caravan or whatever, an all wheel drive vehicle is safer. Towing with a Front wheel drive car in certain conditions is a lethal combination that I for one will not do as I value my family and my life too much.

Daventura - if you think a Ford Focus is a suitable tow truck for you and your family then I think I would prefer to fly or take the train.

One anti even suggested on this Forum that 4x4 drivers were selfish because we drove a vehicle type that was achnowledged to be safer for the occupants than cars! How selfish is that?

The real problem is that the anti's are so full of manure, their eyes are brown. You can only have a sensible debate on a subject with people that have grey matter between their ears, not brown.

"Out and About" magazine states that more caravanners are towing with 4x4's - the sales figures show that ALL types of 4x4's are on the increase.

With Skoda introducing a 4x4 version of there "Passat" clone I wonder how that would be taxed - or would the anti's say that this vehicle is alright because it does not look like a Land Rover, Pajero, Trooper etc.

A responce is awaited with interest.

 

[Matthew_5040954]

So let's get this straight, are we saying tax all 4x4's???? Is it the fact their 4 wheeled driven that offends you, or are you saying that only 4x4's pollute the atmosphere?

So let's see according to Daventura everyone who owns a Freelander, Vitari, Subaru Justy, fiat Panda should pay

 

[rayc]

Ive got a fixed bed caravan and tow with a focus cmax with ease, no need for a 4x4, I had one for a time until I became sensible. Lets have the

 

[Matthew_5040954]

Fixed bed caravans are invariably larger than other vans. I do not see the reason for having them and I think that they are a status symbol. They should be banned or at least have a punative tax put on them at time of purchase.

Here here to right Ray tax them off the road, next we'll see them taking the kids to school in them!

 

[Pete4]

Everything said here has already been said. Even though I'm an anti 4x4er, this forum wont change anything and just get's peoples backs up.

Lets not start again because it wont change laws, opinions or prefered cars.

Instead, we could have a pop at motorhomes as Clive said. Or, how about "adult only sites"? They're always good for a debate and that's not been covered for at least a month now!

 

[CliveV]

Well said Mathew.

 

[GrahamW]

Last time this topic was aired, I invited any member of the anti 4x4 brigade to suggest a serious alternative for me. My Caravan has an MPLTM of 1740kg, When I go away there are 6 adults and 1 child.

Not surpisingly when challenged to make a serious comment the silence was deafening

 

[CliveV]

Stinky - once again we will have to differ. The anti's of which you are a self confessed member DO want to change laws and in the past have certainly managed to do so. Only by coming together on forums such as this will the extremists be seen as what they are - estremists with illogical concepts dictated by dogma and bile rather than facts and logic.

When we have a Government elected on the vote of about only 1/3 of the population minorities can and do dictate policy.

If you had your way I would have to pay ten times the tax that you do just because my vehicle has an extra propshaft and differential, which makes it safer as a vehicle for what I do.

No sensible person would think this reasonable or equitable.

My plan is that at the next census all 4x4 drivers put down that their religion is "Jedi" then we can stop this nonsence by claiming religious persecution.

But then the anti's are not reasonable people.

 

[Matthew_5040954]

It astounds me the level of ignorance there is, we have people here saying 4x4's should be taxed of the road and for what reason, if it's on environmentally ground we should really keep our big mouths firmly shut.

Don't you realise that if you get your way and 4x4's are taxed of the road, focus will be directed elsewhere, and what is the next group of polluters? Maybe people towing caravans, remember the most efficient car turns into a gas guzzling polluting machine as soon as you attach a brick shaped 1500kg box on the back.

Be warned, you will be to blame if this happens.

 

[CliveV]

Last time this topic was aired, I invited any member of the anti 4x4 brigade to suggest a serious alternative for me. My Caravan has an MPLTM of 1740kg, When I go away there are 6 adults and 1 child.

Not surpisingly when challenged to make a serious comment the silence was deafening

Good point Graham - when pressented with real life the anti's cannot cope. Why is it that they BELIEVE so absolutley?

As I have said before lets thank God that they have latched onto a relatively trivial concept.

 

[Moonstone1]

Firstly I must say, I don't get involved in debates about 4 x 4 because it is a personal choice which tow vehicle you use but

I must have read Alun's post wrongly as I thought he was commenting on the fact that the prize letter was won by someone who slated people using a 4 x 4m, then went on to say that he had a fixed bed and therefore needed one himself. Bit of a contradiction.

I didn't particularly read a rant about 4 x 4's at all, but maybe that's just me!

 

[Lutz]

Last time this topic was aired, I invited any member of the anti 4x4 brigade to suggest a serious alternative for me. My Caravan has an MPLTM of 1740kg, When I go away there are 6 adults and 1 child.

Not surpisingly when challenged to make a serious comment the silence was deafening

Don't get me wrong. As a 4x4 owner myself, I'm not anti but one cannot say that there is no alternative for 6 adults and a child and a 1740kg caravan other than a 4x4. For example, one cannot on principle rule out a 1.9CDTI 150bhp Galaxy.

 

[GrahamW]

Don't get me wrong. As a 4x4 owner myself, I'm not anti but one cannot say that there is no alternative for 6 adults and a child and a 1740kg caravan other than a 4x4. For example, one cannot on principle rule out a 1.9CDTI 150bhp Galaxy.

I take the point, a Galaxy would present me with a theoretical alternative as far as seating is concerned but with a kerb weight of 1724kg this rules it out in my opinion. Moreover I dont think the power is sufficient for the type of towing I do (Swiss Alps etc). As a qualified engineer with particular experience of Internal Combustion engines/ transmission power trains I work on the theory of less stress more reliability.

 

[Lol1]

Hi Janet,

The problem is that you just have to mention 4x4 and it will start a debate. It's the same with a few other subjects that crop up from time to time that caravaner's in general, have a vested interest in. Makes me wonder what it would take to get evicted from a site purely on the grounds of what you take. Can't take some large German tourers because they are what "some travellers" use. Kids can be a "no way"! Hence the propagation of adult sites and if you have dogs, you may as well kip down with them in the kennel, as you are not welcome on some sites. These are all heated debates and long may that continue because personally, I think that this sort of feedback is what makes a forum, a forum! Miss the debate first time round, you gotta chance to stick your oar in next time

 

[CaptainKangaroo]

Graham, you asked what vehicle to consider instead of an offroader (I will not call it a 4x4 as Clive is unable to differentiate between a saloon car which has 4 wheels driven and a big offroader)

Why not a Bentley, should be heavy enough for your van and have plently of torque. ................. or don't fill the van up to the mpltm and use a BMW 535d, in fact even with your van loaded to the hilt you should the beemer fine.

 

[CaptainKangaroo]

or even.............. find the beemer fine !

 

[littleangel]

YES, My neighbour bought a 4x4 just after I had my new car!!!! Her reason she didn't have to bend for the boot or to get in the car!! absolutely the most pityful excuse I have ever heard. And NO NO NO she is young and fit before anyone suggests diability.

 

[CliveV]

Poor old Capt Kanga

Caught out again by simplke logic!!

So I cannot diferentiate between two type of car that both have FWD.

I do not know where you got that from?

Oh but of course !!! I forgot !!!! Silly Me !!!!!!

You live in a diferent world to the rest of us Capt. Obviously have different comprehension skills on your planet.

Though I notice that your responce is less silly and flipant than your usual low standard.

Intellegent debate getting a bit tricky for you is it?

Never mind why don't you Boing Boing Boing off and have a quite lay down in front of the telly. CeeBeeBee's is on now.