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Say "YES" to 4x4 tax

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Clive, you seem to be hung up on the technical for a well known term for off road vehicles.

Everybody (except you) knows that the term 4x4 in this thread means the off road vehicles.

I know that technicaly we are all wrong but "4x4" is easier to type than "off road vehicle".

Can we move on to the real issues now. Also, try to keep the personal jibes to a minimum please, it's not clever to insult.
 
Clive, one last thing, unless you start up again.

The fact seem to condone the intimidation tactics employed by many 4x4 (off road vehicle) drivers indicates that you are also a road bully.

Is there anything more dangerous than a bully in a dangerous car? (rethorical question that doesn't solicit an answer).
 
I find it incredible that people who tow a big white box behind them , for which they pay no road tax, and don't even have to MOT, have the cheek to lecture other road users on selfishness. If you believe that a car should be taxed on its size and the amount of fuel used then all caravan owners should pay road tax on the van, which should require an annual test certificate. There should be a tow bar tax payable on any vehicle having a tow bar fitted.
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Pete? Where did Pete come from? Sorry Ray, would you mind changing yur name to Pete, so as to not make me look so stupid? Whats that, sex and travel?.....Sounds nice....
 
By the way Clive, if you think my tow truck is unsuitable for my caravan and family look at the combination in the picture on the forums home page! An Abbey Aventura and a Focus Cmax. Are they not promoting a safe and sensible combination?
 
Clive, one last thing, unless you start up again.

The fact seem to condone the intimidation tactics employed by many 4x4 (off road vehicle) drivers indicates that you are also a road bully.

Is there anything more dangerous than a bully in a dangerous car? (rethorical question that doesn't solicit an answer).
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Oh, yes, an idiot driving a car that is not fit for purpose!Answered like it or not.
 
hi, just to put my opinion across. i have a fixed bed (double at the front and bunks at the rear)and we tow it with a 4x4 (a kia sorrento would you believe!!) due to being based in Germany in the armed forces i pay euros 50 to fill my tank and no road tax. whoever said you can't have your cake and eat it was a fibber. so get your teeth stuck into this one!!
 
Dawn, you're driving a dangerous car in Germany. I can't see any down side to that.
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please explain? i have recieved a recently recieved a sticker from kia saying my car was awarded best 4x4? surely they wouldn't lie would they ???
 
I seem to have been reading all this stuff re 4x4's in this topic for ever. Itis always the same comments repeated over and over again,as a few of you are saying its getting boring (very).WE all have freedom of choice to buy what we want for what ever reason we want,and that applies to most things in life.I wouldn't agree with extra taxation of 4x4's if we did I think other vehicles would need to have an increase in taxation as well.We have a L/Rover Freelander whiich was purchased because we wanted it,we also have an estate car which takes up far more space,both have 2ltr diesel engines.Our Freelander is to small for our needs so we are currently thinking of getting a Sorrento or another make of full size 4x4 to replace it.With todays caravans generally getting heavier ( our model has increased by 60 kg in two years)I think we are limited with what we can tow safely with.Our offroad adventures have probably only extended to a few deep puddles and getting off the Plassey (the Somme)Easter 2003 and I can't see us getting any more intensive in the future. I dont feel superior driving this car any more so than if I was driving a BMW or a Merc I'm not that sort of person and I think thats what most of this comes down to.Not all green eyed monsters come from outer space.

What have I let myself in for...
 
4x4 = dangerous on roads. Please read the previous postings for more details.
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please don't force me to read all that again! i am a sensible driver no convictions or points. just let me be or next weekend whilst travelling i may be forced to shout to outfits struggling in the slow lane "people like you give us caravanners a bad name". bon voyage!! why do you stink?
 
I seem to have been reading all this stuff re 4x4's in this topic for ever. Itis always the same comments repeated over and over again,as a few of you are saying its getting boring (very).WE all have freedom of choice to buy what we want for what ever reason we want,and that applies to most things in life.I wouldn't agree with extra taxation of 4x4's if we did I think other vehicles would need to have an increase in taxation as well.We have a L/Rover Freelander whiich was purchased because we wanted it,we also have an estate car which takes up far more space,both have 2ltr diesel engines.Our Freelander is to small for our needs so we are currently thinking of getting a Sorrento or another make of full size 4x4 to replace it.With todays caravans generally getting heavier ( our model has increased by 60 kg in two years)I think we are limited with what we can tow safely with.Our offroad adventures have probably only extended to a few deep puddles and getting off the Plassey (the Somme)Easter 2003 and I can't see us getting any more intensive in the future. I dont feel superior driving this car any more so than if I was driving a BMW or a Merc I'm not that sort of person and I think thats what most of this comes down to.Not all green eyed monsters come from outer space.

What have I let myself in for...
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hey it is whatever floats your boat!! we had a lexus IS200 and "flew" down to italy to stay in a shabby tent. during our stay we found out it was cheaper to drive down with a caravan than to stay in the tour operatours shabby tent. so now we have traded our lexus for a sorrento and a caravan and since had 12 months getting away from it all in style. at easter we went to Denmark the people were very friendly not helpful just enjoyed looking at the car !!
 
Once again I appear to have offended you Stinky. Though I cannot see why as no insult has been levelled at anyone personally. What is happening here is that you anti's are being forced to look at the facts and when you don't like them you scream "foul - personal abuse!"

I acannot be held responcible for your collective lack of debating skills. If you have these skills I suggest you would not have such dogmatic views as debate opens the mind to the views of others. I believe in freedom of choice and freedom of voice. But I am apparently not allowed to express my views or ask you to consider mine.

I ask again - considering what I have to tow on a regular basis please suggest a practical alternative to a 4x4?

Bringing it all together may be useful to provide a synopsis of what has been achieved with this latest thread, once again "hijacked" by the anti's:-

a) Despite 4x4 being the universal nomencliture for All Wheel Drive, as far as the anti's are concerned this term apparently ONLY applies to Off Road Vehicles.

Now I am confused because my Range Rover was always catagorised as a dual role vehicle - excellent on road manners and superb off road as well. Are you now saying that there is no reason for a Unimog to be on the UK roads for example? If so your beef is with all the Utility companies not us 4x4 drivers. When you next loose power to your home you may be pleased to know that 4x4 vehicles (usually Unimogs and Land Rovers round here) will be used to transport equipment and personell to the fault site. If you ban 4x4's I am sure you and others will not mind waiting far longer to have power reinstated.

b) Apparently a 4x4 vehicle is not a 4x4 vehicle even if it has All Wheel Drive as long as it LOOKS like an "ordinary" car - whatever ordinary can be defined as?

Err! Am I missing something here or is this the biggest cop-out on record so far??

c) Such salloons as Audi quattros, the new Skoda being advertised, Ford Cosworths, Vauxhaul Cavaliers etc. despite being described by the maunfacturers as 4x4 are being reclassified by the anti's as they do not fit their particular rather skewed version of reality.

d) Vehicles that would normaly be defined as "Off road vehicles" by the anti's - such as the Nissan X-Trail, Toyota HiLux and all the others that share the same body/chassis parts BUT WHICH ARE AVAILABLE IN ONLY TWO WHEEL DRIVE VERSIONS are again conveniently ignorred by the anti's as once again this upsets the delicate balance of their reality.

e) If you want a simply alternative to 4x4 as a descriptive term, then one has been in use for a long time - AWD = All Wheel Drive or FWD = Four wheel drive. The latter is not used so much now with the advent of Front Wheel Drive cars but RWD is still in common use for Rear Wheel Drive. So once again Stinky ( and PLEASE do not take this personally) you are wrong to say that 4x4 is only used in relation to what you describe as "Off Road Vehicles"

f) A good point is made by other contributors in that whatever you tow with, more fuel is used when we tow our white sheds on wheels. How soon will it be before the anti movement moves its sights to the "average saloon" that being not as suitable to tow as a 4x4 uses more fuel, causes more pollution and is closer to the upper towing limits and therefore potentialy less stable than a vehicle specifically DESIGNED to tow. Towing with an ordinary car is always going to be a compromise. Towing with a 4x4 is an excercise in design.

Finally Stinky Pete seems to saying that he dislike my car because it clearly is not "average". Clearly my old Range Rover is towards one end of the array. Presumably Bubble Cars, Smart Cars and Mecedes A Class cars at the other end of the array.

Stinky you should realise that if you and your brethen succeed in removing cars like mine the "Bell Shaped Curve" of the array will shift. This will mean that more cars currently within one Standard Deviation will then fall outside the norm.

Still I am satisfied that we can now confirm that the Antis are NOT anti 4x4's - only those 4x4's that can do a job of work in the rural economy as well as transport goods and passengers safely on the UK roads.

Finally, I still have a problem with the inference that it is I that is selfish for having a vehicle that has been proved to protect its passengers better than the plastic and cardboard tin cans that represent an "average" vehicle.

If protecting myself and my fammily better than the average person is selfish then I hold my hand up to it - 100% guilty as charged and proud of it.

I could not live with it any other way. Not protecting what you love is an irresponcible act in my book.
 
Stinky - your post 8:22 pm 19/7/05

How the hell can you infer from what I have said that I drive like a bully?

You really are clutching at straws here - You have no idea of my driving skills qualifications and attitude to others on the road.

Once again this indicates clearly that it is not I that gets personal.

So far on various threads you have intimated that I am "stupid", "sucking up" to others and now with no evidence whatsoever you accuse me of bad driving!!

If you cannot debate in an adult fashion you leave youself open to ridicule.
 
By the way Clive, if you think my tow truck is unsuitable for my caravan and family look at the combination in the picture on the forums home page! An Abbey Aventura and a Focus Cmax. Are they not promoting a safe and sensible combination?
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You are closer to your towing limit maximum in a Focus than I ever will be - even in a 22 year old Range Rover.

You work it out
 
Hi Clive

You know I enjoy your debates,and this one is getting heated agian! There are lots of 4x4's or whatever I think are gorgeous cars but sadly there is NO way on an nhs wage I could afford one !! I am concerned therefore at your comment that you are(rightly so )trying to protect your family by driving one,and that anything else would be irresponsible,therefore do you feel unless you can afford a 4x4 then you should not be allowed to drive at all ?
 
Not at all Tina - the rather silly point was made that it was 4x4 drivers who were being selfish for protecting their families and passengers more than the protection afforded by the average saloon car.

Whilst the statistics would indicate that the Land Rover Defender is apparently the safest vehicle on the road to travel in according to a recent survey, it is NEVER down to vehicle type alone.

I was making the point that having seen the statistics I am happy to drive what I do. However to be accused of being selfish because of this is just plain silly.

However, when we purchase anything these days we do look at various "Which" reports etc to help us decide and safety is very much on the agenda.

Incidently - the most bullying drivers I come accross round here are Volvo drivers.
 
I know I'm gonna get pummeled for this but I find the worst bullys are the "suit executive looking type"in their BMW'S,driving round like they're god with their mobiles in thier hands !!!!!
 
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