Scared silly

[yardy65]

Hi all
My wife and I along, with our 2 small children, are preparing to enter the caravanning world. We have done lots of research and come to the conclusion the Adria Altea 542 DK 2011 is the van for us. Our criteria was for fixed bunks (fun for the kids) and the 2 room layout (better for evenings are our girls are 4 and 2). The MTPLM for the van is 1300kg.
My current car is a 2007 Toyota Verso (7 seater). I entered the info in the outfit matching service provided by What TowCar.com and found, although not ideal, the match was plausible. I then read the forum thread 'Overturned caravan' by Brian_374582181 in the Towing, driving and safety forum on this website. To say this has scared me would be an understatement! The poster appears to have taken all sensible precautions and yet has still ended up on his side (thankfully no one was hurt). This has caused me to question my own towcar (and actually caravanning), given my young family will be in the car with me. I have read that this situation is usually down to 1 of 3 things, either silly driving, incorrect loading or an imbalanced outfit. Given my car is far from ideal I am considering changing it. Ideally I don't want a massive 4x4 as we are a 1 car family and this would prove very expensive to run in an urban environment. I am considering a Passat estate 2.0 TDi and have a budget of around £9k.
Any advice would be really appreciated as would any reassuring comments regarding poor Brian_374582181's incident (it really has knocked us back)
Thanks

 

[GeorgeandAde]

Hi Yardy.
I have a Honda CRV 2.2 diesel with a kerbweight of 1631kg.
Its a permanent front wheel drive but if the wheels sense any loss of traction,drive to the rear wheels kicks in automatically.
Being a permanent 2 whell drive,i achieve 40mpg+ around town.
My caravan has a mtplm of 1365kg(although we nevr load it to its max.it gives us approx.82% match.
You may want to consider the Honda as an everyday vehicle.
I found it to be a compromise between a family car and a 4 wheel drive.
Adrian

 

[Parksy]

Hi Yardy
As far as Brian's unfortunate incident is concerned he was an inexperienced caravanner towing on a blustery windy day on a heavily rutted section of the M5 with possibly too little noseweight judging from what he himself wrote.
Everyone on the forum feels sorry for him and hope that he hasn't been put off, the combination of factors conspired to create a dangerous situation which at first glance seemed 'out of the blue' but appeared to be caused by that particular situation on that particular day.
Both major clubs run towing and maneouvering courses which give caravanners confidence borne out of knowledge and if you go to the Caravan & Outdoor Leisure show at the NEC in October you will be able to try towing a caravan under supervision f.o.c. if you want to.

Obviously the safety of your family is paramount but don't be put off by Brian's experience, with the right knowledge (you can learn quite a lot on this forum and also by reading Practical Caravan Magazine) you will be able to recognise any potential danger or tricky situation and take the appropriate action to avoid it happening in the first place.
Nobody could promise that you will never have any sort of accident but I can promise that your young family will enjoy the quality time spent away in the caravan with you.

 

[Soozeeg]

I don't tow (I can't even drive, fortunately my husband can! lol), so it's easy for me to say, I know, but please don't be put off before you've even started. Accidents like the one Brian had are quite rare actually, they're only really reported in the media and made such a big thing of because a) the media is generally quite biased against caravans, and b) a caravan overturned is fairly dramatic looking. I'm sure car accidents (minus a caravan) are massively more common, but we only get to hear about them really when there's a loss of life, or they create huge tailbacks. As Parksy said, why not go on a towing course, to give you more confidence.

 

[JimD1]

Hi Yardy,

I know that Brian's incident must have been awful for them, but please don't be put off & listen to the comments from everyone above.

This is our 1st year caravanning. We bought the caravan on impulse last September & put it into storage as we then didn't have a vehicle which could tow it. In February of this year I went on a 1 day C&CC towing & manoevering course. All I can say is that it was brilliant !!! I thoroughly enjoyed it & learned more in that day than I could ever have believed. We didn't just cover the course material, we were encouraged to ask any questions related to caravanning we wanted to - there were 3 instructors, each with greater than 30 years experience, so we all made the most of the opportunity.

The 1st time we went away, I wasn't quite shaking, but lets just say that I wasn't overly confident. When we collected the caravan from storage, everyone in the compound was just hitching up & driving off. I was the one getting ribbed by SWMBO for checking the noseweight before driving off & generally double checking everything. The 2nd trip out we went across the A66, & descending towards Kirby Stephen, there was an outfit on its side blocking the outside lane. That stopped the ribbing pretty quickly....

By the end of September we'll have spent 60 nights away & covered about 2,900 miles. Each time it gets easier & although I'm still very careful, I do actually enjoy towing -we've always made the getting there as much a part of any trip as the time spent away. I guess the important lesson from the course was how to recognise situations where problems may arise before they actually happen. I would always encourage newbies like myself to do the towing & manoevering course - I've got over 30 years driving experience, but I still leant things there that apply tio general driving, not just towing. The 1 day C&CC costs £95 + club membership - I think that it was money well spent.

Cheers,
Jim

 

[Philspadders]

mile for mile caravans are invloved in fewer incidents than cars or hgv's. Towing is safe , as long as you take precautions.

There is risk in everything we do..Each time we set foor outside we take a risk from beign involved in a car accident , being run over , getting hit by lightening.

Dont be put off by a few limited incidents.

 

[Dustydog]

Hi Yardy
We all had to start somewhere.
Years ago my first caravan, a disgrace by todays standards, was probably nowhere near as stable as today's models with all their add on safety gear eg stabilisers, ATC, shock absorbers etc.

However three factors were always there as far as I can remember. Correct loading , nose weight and double the safe distance from the vehicle in front. The outfit weight ratio is important but I se you have dealt with that.
I'm with Parksy on the Caravan courses. SWMBO did it a few years ago and tows intelligently but with respect for the whole unit. We are nearly as long overall as an HGV artic.

Rest assured Brian's accident was a mystery although there were plenty of ideas why it happened.
Take your time , relax, no sudden steering or braking, keep to the legal speed limits and be aware what is going on around you. Driving observation is essential imo for a safe smooth drive. Eg watch the tree branches to see if the wind is blowing up, watch for open spaces in the road that suddenly leave a cutting to cross a bridge or viaduct.

Enjoy.

 

[andy72]

Im a newbie too and had our first trip away last week. Ive never towed but got given my parents old van, an 91 Swift Rapide to tow with my current car am Audi A3 Sportback. Although the van is light, 1050max weight the car is far from ideal being a little 1.6 Petrol.
Anyway, we set off on a short trip (60 miles) down the A1 full of nerves after reading the same thread. I had loaded the van carefully and maybe a little paranoid about weight distribution. I didnt weigh anything though and didnt check noseweight. I just made sure most things were over the axle or slightly to the front.
We bumbled along at 50mph, overtaken by other caravan believe it or not!. Aside from the weird feeling when you go over bumps, ie the up and down, white water motion, it seemed ok. I even got up to 60mph at one point and overtook a lorry just for practise!!

The car pulled ok but i made the mistake of sapping every bit of power out of it on inclines prior to changing down. When we hit the A66 cross penine road, i really struggled on the inclines but this was a lot my fault of not getting the best from my underpowered car.
We arrived safely and had looked the seasoned pro as i chatted to the warden about 'these cracking motors' as he put it. After i had reveled in the fact that i obviously didnt have a big sign on my head saying 'new caravanner' we realxed into the holiday.

Towing on the way back was even easier. More confident and not worried about every little bump or noise the unit made. I also mastered the inclines by changing down at the bottom and holding the high revs. Workedmuch better.
I also used the trick of following lorries which seemed to help for some reason. I even got a bit of a wobble at 60mph on a windy open stretch (wind farms to one side so must be a known windy section). The van just seemed to be midly snaking ad buffeting a bit, so i just eased off to 50mph and it steadied down. The lorry i front also did the same so it was obviously just the wind.

I even managed to reverse the van onto my single driveway with no problems.

The best advise i can give from a fellow nervous newbie is be aware of the caravan but not paranoid about it, drive slowly to start with and get used to it being on the back. Dont worry about getting in the way of other road users.

After your first trip you'll wonder what all the worry was about

 

[John_374564913]

Yardi
I know a lot of people on the site are very concious about the 85% rule, however I personally have my own views on this point
I tow a twin axle Bailey GT60-620/6 with a Mercedes C class AMG which is about a 92% ratio
I have shock absorbers on the Van I have fitted ATC and it has the Alko stabilizer before every trip I check the nose weight Tyres lights and all.
When driving I feel the van if I am not comfortable I slow down if I am happy then I keep up to the recognised speed limits you will become accustomed to your particular van once you have done a few hundred miles we have just returned from Europe a round trip of over 3,900 miles and all went well we went overboard with all the insurance cover but better to have too much than not enough. Having said that we did not use any of it but still comforting to know its there if needed.
My thoughts are the following if you have a big 4x4 that can pull a brick wall you are below the 85% so what is the need to check nose weight why not push it to its maximum nothing will go wrong I am well within the limits with this perfectly matched outfit.
or
The driver with a car that is matched albeit not at the 85% but does all the safety checks drives with full attention to his unit without taking risks and not forgetting it is there cautious of road and weather conditions because of his 92% match he is aware when windy he must slow down he feels the movement of his van and so on.
it is then my opinion that in actual fact just maybe the 92% unit is as safe if not safer than the 85% matched driver who may or may not fall into the trap of being over confident.

anyway food for thought

John

 

[yardy65]

Hi all
Many thanks for all the encouraging replies. I realise I must sound like a paranoid newbie but my families safety is of paramount importance to me! We are proceeding and are about to order our first van (Adrias Altea 542 DK which seems to offer excellent value)! We are excited and a bit nervous and I am more than likely to change my car with a CRV high on the desired list (thanks for the advice although still open to other suggestions). This will give a 75% tow match which is enough to give me a bit more confidence. I will also be enrolling on a towing course.
Thanks again

 

[yardy65]

Hi again
Sorry, another question!! If I buy a CRV 2.2 diesel (about 2005 plate) will the Altea 542DK be a good match from a nose weight perspective? Reading these forums is great but I'm getting information overload!!
Thanks again

 

[Parksy]

Congratulations on placing the order for your Adria, Yardy. Don't apologise for asking questions, better to ask than to be uncertain.
I don't know if this will help but........

The noseweight will be a 'good match' provided that it is correct and this will depend on several factors.
A quick rule of thumb is a noseweight limit of 7% of the MPTLM but you should remember that this figure might be over the car, towbar / ball or caravan tow hitch (100kg) limit so go for the lower figure.
Find out if the car manufacturer has imposed a noseweight limit for the rear suspension via the car handbook
Find out the maximum load for the towball and towbar (there should be a plate on the towbar containing this information otherwise go to the manufacturers website.
The maximum noseweight limit for the caravan hitch will be 100kg
The car / towbar or towball limit may be higher or lower than 100kg so you need to restrict the noseweight to the lowest of the weight limits.
Bear in mind that for a stable tow the noseweight should be near to the weight limit but not over, too little noseweight is as bad as too much.
I'm sure that somebody who is clever will explain this more clearly and when you've been on your course you will be able to explain it to me better than I can explain it to you :0)
Good Luck
EDIT:
I forgot to add that any noseweight figure is slightly variable because it changes with the up and down movement of the hitch depending on the road surface.
Measure noseweight at the same height as the towing vehicles towball and allow for some variation. For example if your unit's noseweight limit happened to be 100kg go for about 90kg to be on the safe side.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Yardy,

Parksey's reply about measuring the nose load needs a little refinement; It has been mentioned the actual nose load a trailer exerts changes due to the height of the hitch above the road.

The EU regulations concerning nose load, tell us the load must be measured with the hitch at the same height as the hitch assumes when it is attached to the car. They also go on to stipulate the loaded hitch should sit between 350 and 420mm from the ground to the centre of the ball.

As the caravan will impart a load on the hitch, I hope it is obvious the cars tow ball will sink as the cars suspension compresses. this movement also affects the actual nose load by changing the height of the hitch.

So the correct method of measuring the nose load, is to:
Load the car and the caravan with all persons and luggage.
attach the caravan to the car and measure the height of the hitch
Uncouple the caravan and rest the hitch on the measuring device.
adjust the measuring device to so the caravan hitch sits at the measured height and read the nose load.

 

[yardy65]

Thanks again for the useful information! So to summarise:

• The Adrias MTPLM is 1300kg, 7% of this is 91kg
• The CRVs nosewieght rating is 100kg
• The towbars nosewieght rating is 100kg

As I should take the lowest value I should therefore be aiming for a noseweight of around 85kg at the height the van is hooked up to the towcar!

 

[DerekBrad]

The noseweight limit for the CRV Diesel is 100Kg. I tow an Abbey Vogue 2 495 with mine (about a 85% match give or take one or two) and find it to be a very good towcar, returning about 30 mpg towing (55-58 mph)

Best of luck with your new venture, load carefully and don't rush about with the van on the back!

Regards,

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Yardy,

Yes your suggested nose load figure seems a reasonable compromise, but the proof is in the towing, if it feels fidgety you can add up to another 15Kg nose load to the maximum of 100Kg. Equally if it all feels stable, you can reduce the nose load, which will make it easier to lift onto the tow ball.

Take things easy and enjoy.

 

[xtrailman]

Why not just aim for 91kg?

Generally more nose weight the better

 

[forestgump]

yardy look at the hyundia tucson well with in your price .Dont be put off you dont give up driving every time you see a shunt on the motof way,its all about comon sence.dont be stubbon and ask some poeple think its a bit sad asking advice its not.I allways recomend john wickershaws book on starting caravaning haynes manaul type you can get it from halfords £12 or so it covers all starting of caravanig and covers towing and loading.The worst thing with towing is beeing scared or intimedated give it a try the rewards a far better than a small problems of towing.