Seat fabric premature wear?

[Chrisjkerr]

Morning all.

I've got a 2016 Lunar Delta Ri and during our last holiday which was the end of August, whilst cleaning the van inside, I noticed the front seat fabric wearing in the areas where we tend to sit for either breakfast or an evening drink if the weather is poor, I've tried brushing the fabric and using the attachment tools with the vacuum cleaner but nothing seems to make a difference. In the 2016 Ri the fabric is a cream colour with a fluffy squared texture. This fluffy texture is now flat and very noticeable in comparison to other areas on the seats that might not get as much wear, for example the areas near the wrap around bolsters and the cushion next to the pop up extension flap.

I've worked out that since collecting the van in March 2016, we've holidayed collectively for approximately 49 days during which time, we've hardly sat inside the van, Evenings we usually spend in the awning and most mornings if it's nice out, we're sat eating breakfast in the sunshine. (We're not winter caravanners....yet) and as we have a fixed bed, the front beds have never been made up to a double or been slept on individually.

I've emailed the dealer to put forward a claim with some photos of the wear but Lunar have rejected the warranty claim as it's "Wear and Tear". I've emailed Lunar direct and had a response from Lee Roberts who I believe is the sales director.

My original email to Lunar pointed out that I didn't believe it to be a manufacturing defect but more of a poor choice of fabric for it's intended purpose and the fact that it should stand up to what I believe is less than regular or expected use for a 25k + caravan and that harder wearing fabrics should be considered in future designs.

I ended the email asking that Lunar organise the replacement or recovering of the front seats.

Lee replied with the email below.

Thanks for your email and we are sorry to hear of the problem you have experienced with your caravan.

I have reviewed your claim and will explain that this fault is only covered for 1 year as the bed bases can be subject to wear and tear, and if this was a design fault, then this would usually manifest itself immediately.

We do work closely with our suppliers, and all fabrics are sourced from tested suppliers, with a minimum wear of 30000 martindales verified for all fabrics. Therefore, we are unable to underwrite this warranty claim at this time.

I hope this clarifies

Kind regards

Lee Roberts
Lunar Caravans

I replied to Lee, stating that I was unhappy and would expect this kind of wear on a 3 or 4 year old van and as a first time Lunar owner, I'm disappointed. That was the 5th September and I'm yet to get a response.Although I have emailed him today asking for a response.

So what does everyone else think of this? Am I being too picky? Would you say it's fair wear and tear?
I've attached a few photo's below so that you can clearly see the wear and the one thing that annoys me is that the side of the cushion which sits against the pop up extension shows the same flat looking wear as the seats and it's not even been sat on! it's only been placed beside the extension.

Side Cushion next to pop up extension

How it should look, fluffy and new which is the seperate small base cushion next to drawers.

Wear comparsion

Flat looking fabirc

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Chrisjkerr,

First and foremost I agree with you that fabric on an 18 month old caravan should not be wearing out, unless it has been exposed to unreasonable use. It certainly calls into question the quality of the materials being used adn such wear suggest the design (or specification of the materials is inadequate for its intended purpose or that they have used a fault batch of material in your caravan.

Morally Lunar are wrong to refuse to handle your claim, but legally they are perfectly within their rights, as you have no contract with them. You do however have a contract with your seller!

I suggest you look up your statutory rights automatically afforded to you under the Consumer Rights Act 2015. Your seller is in breach of your statutory rights if the sell you goods that not of adequate quality and sufficiently durable for their intended purpose.

Check out The Consumers Association Web site about the CRA.

 

[Chrisjkerr]

Hi Prof,

As ever, thanks for your time responding. Yeah, I know that it's the supplying dealer that I'm contracted to but fancied my chances directly with the claim seeing as it was rejected so quickly via the dealer and then it being relayed directly to the warranty team at Lunar for them to reject. I will go back to dealer if Lunar doesn't respond and I'll make it clear that I'm unhappy and take it from there.

I just wanted to see if other caravan owners on the forum thought i'm being unreasonable for an 18 month old caravan to show shade changes to the fabric and the aesthetic properties which have changed so quickly considering the actual time I've sat on the front seats. It would be good to find out if anyone owning a Lunar Clubman 2016 or Delta with the same fabric are showing the same levels of wear as us...?

Thanks

Chris

 

[ProfJohnL]

Just out of interest I wanted to know what the"Marrtindales" was so I found this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martindale_(unit)

 

[otherclive]

Certainly looks to be a poor choice of fabric by Lunar to show such a difference between new and used. Not sure it can be classed as wear but the flattening of the "pile" isn't really acceptable as it spoils the appearance of the upholstery and makes the seating looker far more used than it actually is. Good look through the Dealership. I'd be interested to hear if any other Lunar owners have had similar issues.

 

[Chrisjkerr]

I did a bit of research too Prof. There's some Youtube videos out there as well showing the rub test.

I checked some fabric manufacturing websites that use this particular testing method and read on their FAQ pages that it's the job of the designer to understand the full implications of the physical and aesthetic properties of the fabric when specifying it in their colour scheme / application. So as well as abrasion resistance you will need to understand, colour fastness and importantly, fire retardancy as well as other fabric properties, such as shade change.

Seems to me that you may get a 50,000 martindales score but the fabric may look shagged but at least it didn't tear or fall apart!

 

[VicMallows]

I am in no way an expert on upholstery fabrics, but just looking at your close-up pics, it is certainly not a fabric I would choose for the purpose ..... it is a far too 'open' weave. It's a bit like buying 'bedroom quality' carpet and putting it in the hallway ... cheap and looks good at first. However, if you had been offered an upgrade, would you have forked out perhaps an extra £500 for better material?

However, we all know that it is 'glossies' and instant visual appeal that sell new 'vans (or boats/cars/whatever) rather than the practicalities. (Far easier to sell a 'van with a fancy 'digital' fridge which automatically decides which fuel source to use, than an old-fashioned one!......even though it costs more; will perform no better; and be vastly more expensive to repair when the electronics fail)

 

[Chrisjkerr]

I was of the same opinion VicMallows, I said to both Lunar on my first email and to the dealership that the fabric in my opinion wasn't ideally suited for such a heavy wear areas such as the sofas. I even used a similar example with the carpet same as you. I've had a second hand 18 month old Bailey Unicorn 3 Cartagena in standard fabric which still looked and felt new and a 6 year old Sterling Eccles Opal and that was the same...Both looked new, felt new but had a rougher and harder wearing fabric.

 

[Chrisjkerr]

I've had a response from Lunar. Please see below.

Looks like I'll be speaking with the dealer in question and exercising my rights under the CRA with regards fit for purpose.

Hi

Thanks for your email.

We have referred this to our supplier who underwrite the warranty on these items, and they have replied back stating that as these items are over 12 months old, and from the photos show no fault in the fabric, they cannot accept a warranty claim for this case.

As they are the experts in this field and do fully test all fabrics before supply, and indeed have to adhere to minimum standards set under Type Approval, we have to support their decision.

I am sorry we cannot help further on this occasion.

Kind regards

Lunar Caravans

 

[Buckman]

Tough luck on the dealer as they will have to replace the fabric at their own cost. Not sure why you bothered to chase it with Lunar as the answer given in the post by "Prof" was good advice. Have a read of

. Remember you have to give a dealer the opportunity to do a repair. That repair should then have the same type of cover as if you have just bought the goods.
As per the CRA 2015 the following apply;

1 Wherever goods are bought they must "conform to contract". This means they must be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality (i.e. not inherently faulty at the time of sale).

2 Goods are of satisfactory quality if they reach the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking into account the price and any description. Aspects of quality include fitness for purpose, freedom from minor defects, appearance and finish, durability and safety.

3 It is the seller, not the manufacturer, who is responsible if goods do not conform to contract.

4 If goods do not conform to contract at the time of sale, purchasers can request their money back "within a reasonable time". (This is not defined and will depend on circumstances)

5 For up to six years after purchase (five years from discovery in Scotland) purchasers can demand damages (which a court would equate to the cost of a repair or replacement).

6 A purchaser who is a consumer, i.e. is not buying in the course of a business, can alternatively request a repair or replacement.

7 If repair and replacement are not possible or too costly, then the consumer can seek a partial refund, if they have had some benefit from the good, or a full refund if the fault/s have meant they have enjoyed no benefit

8 In general, the onus is on all purchasers to prove the goods did not conform to contract (e.g. was inherently faulty) and should have reasonably lasted until this point in time (i.e. perishable goods do not last for six years).

9 If a consumer chooses to request a repair or replacement, then for the first six months after purchase it will be for the retailer to prove the goods did conform to contract (e.g. were not inherently faulty)

10 After six months and until the end of the six years, it is for the consumer to prove the lack of conformity.

 

[Chrisjkerr]

HI Buckman,

Thanks for the info.

I had spoken to the dealer originally as I had to claim on the warranty for another item which was agreed. It was how quickly the fabric claim came back (24hrs) which bothered me as if they hadn't looked into it at all and I'd already been dealing with Lunar directly on another matter regarding a potential purchase of a 2018 Alaria and whist dealing with them decided to ask about the fabric which then got escalated internally and they requested an email with evidence. I'd already emailed Lunar before Prof kindly replied as I was trying to see if Lunar would resolve it directly as they had done with another warranty claim last year.

 

[Craigyoung]

Hi,
but make sure when you get your new fabrics that you keep close eye on them because a few years ago we got a new window put in the front of ours on the Old van and it didn't last 6 months until it went again we had , second one lasted just over a year the third one just under a year ! 3 or 4 windows in there within a matter of 3 or 4 years !!

 

[Buckman]

HI Buckman,

Thanks for the info.

I had spoken to the dealer originally as I had to claim on the warranty for another item which was agreed. It was how quickly the fabric claim came back (24hrs) which bothered me as if they hadn't looked into it at all and I'd already been dealing with Lunar directly on another matter regarding a potential purchase of a 2018 Alaria and whist dealing with them decided to ask about the fabric which then got escalated internally and they requested an email with evidence. I'd already emailed Lunar before Prof kindly replied as I was trying to see if Lunar would resolve it directly as they had done with another warranty claim last year.

Perhaps a way forward is for you to now put it in writing to the dealer. Either by snail mail or email. It is essential that you try and keep it in writing from this point forward otherwise if the issue enters legal territory you cannot prove anything. BTW if the caravan is on HP if the dealer does not respond get onto the finance house and tell them that you are not happy as if you have a contract with the finance house who own the goods.
I have been down this route very recently and after a year I was successful in rejecting a caravan to get a refund. I got a lot of very good legal advice from the Which magazine legal team. This cost me approximately £90 for a years subscription to the magazine plus the advice. If I can be of any further help, let me know.

 

[Chrisjkerr]

I'm already writing the email and a copy for snail mail just in case! I've got a good rapport with the sales team at the dealer so we'll just have to see if that gets me anywhere.. Unfortunately the van isn't on any finance so no angle via the financial institution. I'm already a subscriber of Which so should maybe give them a call and see where it gets me. I'm now re-evaluating the Alaria but it seems whichever brand you go with, there's always going to be something wrong. Will let you know how i get on

 

[Buckman]

We looked at the Alaria last year, but the roof could not hold the weight of an air con or a satellite dome and that was of concern to us. We thought it to be over priced. Previously we had a 2011 Lunar Delta TI and serious damp issues with it. Our Lunars previous to that we had no damp issues and were looked after by Chichester Caravans in Bromsgrove.

 

[otherclive]

If you paid the deposit on the van by credit card you may get Section 75 cover from the card issuing company.

 

[Chrisjkerr]

Yeah, we thought the same too last year but with more the higher costs associated to change rather than limited AC or Sat provisions. Lunar still use the standard wooden construction method too within their walls, floors and ceilings along with the usual fixings but could be wrong and that against a Buccaneer and it being 8ft wide and using a fully bonded construction would have been the better option but either didn't sway my wallet I'm afraid.

We looked at the Buccaneer Commodore but didn't really like the enclosed cubicles for shower and toilet / basin. In the end we kept the RI. Now that Lunar are going 8ft with the Alaria i'd have been more inclined to take a look seeing as I like the washroom layout in the RI, extra width on the 2018 Alaria and love the L shape lounges sense of space. Maybe we'll take a look at the Buccaneer Baracuda instead and put up with the cubicle style mid washroom. Who knows. In my perfect world. The vans would be 8.3ft wide, built using SMART HT from Swift, have the Alaria RI layout with the build quality of Vanmaster or something...We only hope.

In reply to Otherclive, it was debit card so no Section 75 cover for deposit

 

[Raywood]

I agree with the legal summaries in that the fabric should last far longer and it does look to be of poor quality so there is a basis of a claim there. You probably need expert opinion on this though and you should contact local upholsterer to see if any can give you the necessary report. If you do not have a report, you risk having to turn up in court with the offending items and hoping they find in your favour.
Given that your use of the caravan is modest compared with some of us, I am surprised that if there is a problem it has not turned up before. It might be worth checking other forums to see if you can find anything, as if it is coming up elsewhere then it does help your case and the other people concerned.

 

[Dustydog]

1. The fabric supplier without even seeing the seats in the flesh says they are OK. Rubbish. What a fob off k
2. The photos Chris posted show a distressed fabric imo.
3. Time for a Small Claims Court action against the Dealer.
4. This isn't the first time a fabric hasn't stood the test of time. The rub test and Martindales only apply to the tested sample. They Do Not prove the fabric supplied is compliant. Things do fail, as do cars and caravans
Any Judge worth his salt will soon see your fabrics are not fit for purpose.

 

[Chrisjkerr]

Thanks Raywood / DustyDog

I've gone back to the supplying dealer now to request that it be looked into again with or without the Lunar backed warranty, suggesting the dealer cover the cost of the reupholstering otherwise I'll be considering legal action in accordance with my consumer rights. I've found out today that going via Belfield furnishings directly would cost a mind boggling (sarcasm) total of £187.20 for both front cushions to be re-covered. I'd imagine Lunar would be paying significantly less than this as a trade customer and the dealer possibly gaining some discount also. I can't believe how either the manufacturers or dealers turn down this sort of claim with the evidence provided for that sort of expense at putting right the fault that is obviously due to poorly selected fabric for its purpose.

I'm going to head over to a few Lunar owner forums and see if anyone with the Clubman / Delta of the same year have noticed anything similar on their van. I visited a caravan dealer whilst in Nottingham over the weekend and they had a 2016 Clubman Si with the same fabric as my Delta. Guess what...Same bloody wear as mine! Can't just be me being picky can it??

ciao

 

[Raywood]

I am afraid it is typical of many firms in all sorts of businesses these days to just fob you off and hope you go away. I would see if you can get photos of the wear on the other Lunar as evidence of a problem. If Belfield have given you a quote for the work then that is evidence of the value of your claim and do not forget to add interest at 8% and your costs to any claim.
If you do proceed it will be very expensive for the firm at the end of the action as the dealer will claim against Lunar who claim against Belfield who claim against their supplier which would run into thousands in solicitors fees. You will appreciate why they might be keen to settle.
I do have to say when our caravan had damp Lunar did accept the claim very quickly, although it has taken a couple of months to get the parts, but we needed the caravan anyway, so it did not worry us in this case. It is booked in now though.