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Shock tactics for knife carriers

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I go along with a lot of what Colin (bridgend) says, even though I'm not an advocate of "an eye for an eye" and I don't think the reasons given are the whole story. I see the root cause as a general lack of teaching to respect one another in modern society. There is no need for adopting a hard hand in the process. Our children grew up without experiencing any form of corporal punishment and yet I can be proud to say that they have become courteous, responsible and respectful members of society.
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In the case you are referring to, the boy may have listened to what his father said but he obviously didn't grasp what he said. Besides, neither you nor I know what he said and whether it was appropriate. A typical case of a job half done.
 
I go along with a lot of what Colin (bridgend) says, even though I'm not an advocate of "an eye for an eye" and I don't think the reasons given are the whole story. I see the root cause as a general lack of teaching to respect one another in modern society. There is no need for adopting a hard hand in the process. Our children grew up without experiencing any form of corporal punishment and yet I can be proud to say that they have become courteous, responsible and respectful members of society.
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The father cannot have taken the trouble to understand his son and the way his mind ticked, either. No child will go ahead on a spate of window breaking without cause. Who knows what the father's employer did to the boy to provoke him? Or maybe he was just frustrated because the employer exepected the father to work more overtime and therefore spend less time together with his son. There was obviously a serious disconnect somwhere between the two, even though the father may have talked to the boy.
 
The father cannot have taken the trouble to understand his son and the way his mind ticked, either. No child will go ahead on a spate of window breaking without cause. Who knows what the father's employer did to the boy to provoke him? Or maybe he was just frustrated because the employer exepected the father to work more overtime and therefore spend less time together with his son. There was obviously a serious disconnect somwhere between the two, even though the father may have talked to the boy.
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A strange take on a strange boy, he had a mother as well yet it was the fathers roll to sort him out?

His father worked for the same employer as mine and had an easy number as did mine at that timne and the other workers. His father died a couple of years ago and I still know his sister, brother and mother who are all still lovely people many years on.

If you face all violence and problems with talk you would soon end up dead Lutz.
 
I go along with a lot of what Colin (bridgend) says, even though I'm not an advocate of "an eye for an eye" and I don't think the reasons given are the whole story. I see the root cause as a general lack of teaching to respect one another in modern society. There is no need for adopting a hard hand in the process. Our children grew up without experiencing any form of corporal punishment and yet I can be proud to say that they have become courteous, responsible and respectful members of society.
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My aim is not to face violence with talk but to prevent the germs of violence from growing in the first place. I want to know what makes people violent and not what the violence can do to others once it's there. That's like closing the stable after the horse has bolted.
 
It seems to me that you get stabbed end up in hospital but that's not good enough they want you to suffer more by the little sod who did it to you.

I wouldn't want to see the person who did it UNLESS it was to watch them get flogged at least once a day.....

Problem is no one is allowed anymore to say boo. If kids misbehave your not alllowed to give them a smack them and if you do think of a punishment dare I say ABUSE to children.

Were in a no win situ now. They can do what they like, parents held responsible but not allowed to deal with the problem how they would want too.
 
Euro and Lutz, you'll have to agree to disagree. Lutz is all for the softly, softly approach, certainly something that's been happening in this country since these nerds came to power in 97. They have thrown billions at the disenfranchised. With what result? The ones who are causing most of the stabbings and believe in gang culture are blacks. Someone is likely to get stabbed if they as much as look at them, that's not showing respect. To become a gang member a youngster has to go out and stab someone to be accepted into the gang. To a lot of these people taking drugs is part of their religion so again some is drug related violence. Unsurprisingly it has been reported that virtually all of the offenders are from single parent families, fatherless. Instead of locking them up to we ban all tools and eating implements so they have no access to a weapon? Are young girls, in these identified areas, to be forcibly steralised at puberty? Even if we wished to it wouldn't be possible. We have tried Lutz's way for long enough now and it's proven that it does not work along with our soft penal system. What is needed is real punishment in prisons, something that will make them think they are in Hell on Earth and once out have no desire to repeat.

Basic food, bare cells with the exception of toilet, sink, bed and shower. Certainly no T.V. computers, games, cigarettes, etc. and 30 minutes exercise in the yard each day. No contact with the outside world.

For terrorists, like those who have pleaded guilty today, if they are British nationals they should be executed for treason. There should be no plea bargaining so that they can get a reduced sentence.

If they are from another country then after serving their sentence they should be deported. Forget their human rights, they never considered others when planning to blow up the planes.

As an aside, although they have pleaded guilty, they have pleaded not guilty to attempted mass murder. I'd love to know how they intended to blow those planes up over the Atlantic without causing loss of life. Is it me or am I missing something apart from the usual loose screw :O(
 
But what makes anyone want to join a gang in the first place? Yes, you are missing something, Lord B. There is absolutely no data to support your theory (wishful thinking) that harder punishment has any preventative effect. Anyone experiencing Hell on Earth, as you are proposing, has nothing further to lose and is unlikely to ever rejoin normal society.

Reading your last response I get the impression that, in sheer frustration over the lack of positive perspective to tackle the problem, anger and despair has taken over from rational thinking. The end result is legalised violence taking over from illegal violence.
 
Look at the New York system of penal punishment and many other states and counties in the U.S. where they now use ZERO tolerance and punishments that fit the crime. This is why more states are adapting this system and we could learn a lot from them. First we should get rid of some of the geriatric judiciary, then weedle out the E.U. dictats that don't suit us (as members of the same club we should be allowed to do it also), then get rid of this government. While at it remove the politically correct that now dominate the BBC. The Americans also have the stats to show that it's working, unlike those in the P.C.E.U.
 
Zero tolerance has nothing to do with severity of punishment. I am in full agreement with a zero tolerance policy, but not with combatting violence with violence.
 
I usually respect postings by Lutz as a mixture of commonsense and knowledge but living near to a shop and play area plagued by gangs of kids it makes me think he lives in a really nice area like MP's live.Putting these thugs inprison might not solve the problem but it gives you a respite from their behaviour for a while.People are generally more lenient the furthur they live from rough areas
 
I see Lutz as a fully paid up member of the Wets Party, facing an inner city thug with a blade. Lutz would be stuttering half way through his last words of his reasoning speech as the life drained from him as the thug retrieved his blade from Lutz's fading body and punched the air with glee as his pals laughed at our fading friends death throws.

Real world life for too many, not the insulated world of politicians and do goody talkers I'm afraid to say.
 
Must have something to do with lower animal intincts of some people who revel in a snowballing spiral of ever increasing violence on both sides.
 
What annoys me about this country is that the average British citizen has spoken many many times on their feelings regarding crime, immigration, sexual orientations, etc. etc. When are the so called MPs (in my opinion not fit for the purpose they are for) and social do gooders going to say that they will listen to the majority and act as they want and not how the "do gooders" want. This country is being dictated to, against the general opinions of Joe Average, by a minority of crazy head in the clouds do gooders. How would they react if they or a member of their family was the next victim?
 
I've lived and worked in some dangerous places, talk is fine Lutz. Self preservation comes ahead of talk.

If we were all to just sweetly talk as you seem to advise many of us would not have lived as long as we have.

Try talking to an African child soldier with a Kalashikov and see how long you last, some young people seem to lead their lives as though they are at war and gentle words just do nothing.
 
Why not reintroduce the floating prison and when it is full take it into international waters and have the Navy to use it for target practice and scupper it. The only down side is that sword fish would be tainted with the food and end up being brainwashed the same as the knife wealding morons on the ship.
 
It still leaves the question unanswered as to what motivates a person to stab anyone or to why the African child soldier with a Kalashnikov has become a child soldier (Euro's example). By only reacting to violence instead of acting to eliminate the root causes, the stabber of today will become the terrorist of tomotrrow.
 
Sorry Lutz, stick to automotive engineering mate, something you know about because social engineering has been going on in this country for 11 years and as I've said before, it's proven to not work. All the points you've made regarding looking at the underlying causes have been tried, billions have been spent on studies, youth workers, social workers, youth clubs, new schools with lessons pandering to their needs, so much so that English is the second language in some of them. A lot of these areas now have ethnic minority councillors and the town halls are ruled by them, needless to say with an allegiance to "New Labour". This is my last post on the matter regarding your comments Lutz because, as of yet, you haven't made one suggestion of how the problem can be tackled apart from saying the root causes need looking at and has I've already said, they've been there and done it with no result.

I do find it strange though that not one person has responded to my post of why the Italians (although it happens in other EU countries) can lock up three people for 11 months without charge yet the PC numpties in this country are against locking up suspected terrorists for 42 days. Just plain amazing. Totally unbelievable infact if I never knew it was true. Is it any wonder we are denied a referendum on the EU? I do know that if there was a referendum we would be in the same lane as the Irish although that's not to say the un-elected criminals in Brussels and Strasbourg wouldn't change the rules.
 
Sorry Lutz, stick to automotive engineering mate, something you know about because social engineering has been going on in this country for 11 years and as I've said before, it's proven to not work. All the points you've made regarding looking at the underlying causes have been tried, billions have been spent on studies, youth workers, social workers, youth clubs, new schools with lessons pandering to their needs, so much so that English is the second language in some of them. A lot of these areas now have ethnic minority councillors and the town halls are ruled by them, needless to say with an allegiance to "New Labour". This is my last post on the matter regarding your comments Lutz because, as of yet, you haven't made one suggestion of how the problem can be tackled apart from saying the root causes need looking at and has I've already said, they've been there and done it with no result.

I do find it strange though that not one person has responded to my post of why the Italians (although it happens in other EU countries) can lock up three people for 11 months without charge yet the PC numpties in this country are against locking up suspected terrorists for 42 days. Just plain amazing. Totally unbelievable infact if I never knew it was true. Is it any wonder we are denied a referendum on the EU? I do know that if there was a referendum we would be in the same lane as the Irish although that's not to say the un-elected criminals in Brussels and Strasbourg wouldn't change the rules.
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Instead of criminals maybe a better description would be despots ;O)
 
Without going over the old argument of whether it is better to fight the result than the root cause, I have a certain sympathy for your call for questioning the 42 day limit of detention. You mention Italy, but here in Germany, under certain conditions, and depending on the severity of the crime, a court may order a criminal to be detained for up to the length of the expected duration of sentence, and that, in the case of a terrorist act, could be several years.
 
Without going over the old argument of whether it is better to fight the result than the root cause, I have a certain sympathy for your call for questioning the 42 day limit of detention. You mention Italy, but here in Germany, under certain conditions, and depending on the severity of the crime, a court may order a criminal to be detained for up to the length of the expected duration of sentence, and that, in the case of a terrorist act, could be several years.
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OK thanks Lutz :O)
 
Lutz is searcjhing for motives and reasons and underlaying problems. Who cares what the underlying reason is when you are laying in a pool of blood the life draining from you.

Child soldiers carrying auotmatics or kids in inner cities carrying knives or guns is, "wot u do man" "cool" "hard" "gets u da respect" "everyone doin it" "standin proud and showin dem"

If you find the root cause and cure it you are not going to alter the behaviour of street thug teenagers over night. A few may respond to reasoning andkind words, many will only bow to stronger influences and a short sharp reality call.

If that's a whack with a Policemans batton or an irate corner shop keeper taking a base ball bat to their head then it's better that some one else is saved from the distress. Low lives cause enough heartache, rather than a social workers words fading in to laughter at as they leave their weekly counselling session on the way to their next victims trauma. Hit them hard, talk is seen as weakness from authorities and is exploited far to often.

Today the Samurai sword killer is shown walking the streets of Bristol, hope somebody has had a nice chat with him. Or will we have another massacre on the news headlines in the near future? His new neighbours feel safe as houses I bet 😉
 
" look what it cost for those 2 that killed james Bulger "

Are we going to start hanging children ?? Careful you may get what you wish for. If the Police and the Courts get it wrong you can't call the hanged person back, and say sorry.

Is that the best we can come up with " hang them " Marshal Marshal we need a posse will be the next cry.
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THATS WH YOU SHOULD HAVE A DEATH ROW LIKE IN THE US>
 
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