Site water fed into Water Barrel or directly into Caravan?

[gavingti]

Hi folks,

What is the general view of taking the sites water tap and feeding it either directly into the caravan or into a water barrel with a float valve?

I must admit, we tried the float valve for the first time when last on site, and the water flowed through our van taps very consistently.

Also using the float valve technique, I presume this is safer if there’s sudden high water pressure surge.

If you have a leak in the caravan, either way it’s not going to stop the water, which will keep feeding in on both of the above.

Hi
I can only comment from my own experience as I have used both, on my last caravan I used the truma direct feed into the caravan, I think this had a water pressure valve fitted to the hose just before entering the van, I had zero problems , now I have changed vans, I’m currently in an Elddis which uses the whale type pump out of the aqua roll barrel , I haven’t noticed any difference in performance, I suppose it’s a little safer using a barrel and it’s down to how comfortable you are using the direct feed with the knowledge that you have constant pressured water connected to your van.

 

[Buckman]

On a personnel level, I value our caravan too much to risk it on blind reliance on a reducer value, and most certainly not the low cost items used in this industry.

I do not think that the Whale direct feed is a cheap and nasty item. If my some extraordinary and very remote chance it did fail, you could probably claim on your insurance anyway. However using the float in the aquaroll you would not be able to claim.

 

[otherclive]

I do not think that the Whale direct feed is a cheap and nasty item. If my some extraordinary and very remote chance it did fail, you could probably claim on your insurance anyway. However using the float in the aquaroll you would not be able to claim.

Why would you not be able to claim on insurance for a float system?

 

[Buckman]

Why would you not be able to claim on insurance for a float system?

It is not part of the "normal" caravan equipment. Most float systems seem to be home made and not manufactured by a known supplier. Our caravan came standard with Whale direct feed and also the pump so hopefully we could claim for accidental damage?.

 

[otherclive]

It is not part of the "normal" caravan equipment. Most float systems seem to be home made and not manufactured by a known supplier. Our caravan came standard with Whale direct feed and also the pump so hopefully we could claim for accidental damage?.

On that basis the direct feed with pressure control valve isn’t original equipment for a lot of caravans either.

 

[JTQ]

I do not think that the Whale direct feed is a cheap and nasty item.

Your choice of wording of course.
My view for this market, it has to be significantly cheaper than the better reducing/relief products I dealt with.
As I very carefully tried to help people understand, there is a risk of very serious ramifications, if just one component, a reducer valve fails.

You think it is remote, I don't share that view, but then I consulted in the correct application of these in water, potable and otherwise, plus fuels and lubricants in the aviation, and shipping fields.

From that I know this hobbies application is one particularly exposed to get contaminated. As pointed out earlier, our hoses can be contaminated with algae, then over time its corpses travel on their way, we regularly make and break our connections, further exposure and could store the hose in a far from contamination mitigating way.

The use of an external holding tank float valve based storage system, if used with micro switched faucets , requires a double failure to just cause a flood, and totally avoids over pressurising the van's componentry.

Pressure switched water systems used with an external float controlled van share that over pressurisation protection, but exposes the van to flooding with again just a single component, leaking failure. [ Dare I say I would not purchase a pressure switch systems, on several counts, not least because of its single failure potentially leading to serious consequences]

Re whether your insurer would pick up the tab, is into territory that I have no useful insight into, but even the flood in the first place and the claiming process together with its inevitable time span can't be hassle free? Much would depend IMO if the kit was part of the van's standard fit/option.

 

[Dustydog]

As a point of interest I am on my second one of these in 25 years. Note it is made by FLHitchman , the manufacturer of the Aquaroll

Aquaroll Mains Adaptor Ball Value | FL HITCHMAN

 

[Buckman]

As a point of interest I am on my second one of these in 25 years. Note it is made by FLHitchman , the manufacturer of the Aquaroll

Aquaroll Mains Adaptor Ball Value | FL HITCHMAN

I thought it was assembled by Hitchman with parts bought from the local B&Q?

 

[Danddandy]

Anyone who wants to use the pressure reducer and are concerned about failure could use a second reducer connected in line. Then if one fails the other will still control the pressure. Of course if one did fail you wouldn't know.

 

[JTQ]

I thought it was assembled by Hitchman with parts bought from the local B&Q?

And if so what's the issue?
Domestic market products like these probably way more field experience that the pressure reducer valves offered for caravans.

 

[JTQ]

Anyone who wants to use the pressure reducer and are concerned about failure could use a second reducer connected in line. Then if one fails the other will still control the pressure. Of course if one did fail you wouldn't know.

The correct engineering solution is to place a relief valve [safety valve in more general terms] downstream of the reducer, vented with low resistance outside.
Series reducers involve their own complications, and would only be done professionally where the pressure drop is so high it can't stably be done in the single step.

 

[JTQ]

Rest assured I am very definitely only answering post to try to help the "others".

 

[Starb7]

I know this is an old topic now but it still seems relevant. I had considered a 'direct feed' and would have thought that by now, they would be reasonably 'bullet proof' in operation and safety. I know you cannot always guarantee such kit, as likewise a solar charger that might overcharge and explode your LB, the main water heater stat failing and boiling the water to the point of explosion... and so on. So, it has to be down to what you feel safe with and take the necessary precautions, ie water tap off, pump off, heating off and so on. That aside, I personally, and after asking a few fellow on-site 'vanners with a direct supply kit what they thought and the conclusion is, don't want to take the potential risk. I use an ARoll and Float Valve setup and (usually!) turn the Pump switch off when I go out so feel reasonably safe. My query is... given the trend appears to still be AR and Valve setup over Direct Feed one, has anyone seen a compact external tank so that you don't need the AR and can use something like a compact 10 litre container, that already has a valve controlled water inlet (with suitable hoselock type connector) which then offers a top entry for your water draw-off pipe? I think there's a good market for something like this Cheers

I have found this on Amazon but would like something a little more compact but this is the general idea. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Caravan-Ma...2472879858-B01BCG9CB8-&hvexpln=0&gad_source=1

 

[RogerL]

I know this is an old topic now but it still seems relevant. I had considered a 'direct feed' and would have thought that by now, they would be reasonably 'bullet proof' in operation and safety. I know you cannot always guarantee such kit, as likewise a solar charger that might overcharge and explode your LB, the main water heater stat failing and boiling the water to the point of explosion... and so on. So, it has to be down to what you feel safe with and take the necessary precautions, ie water tap off, pump off, heating off and so on. That aside, I personally, and after asking a few fellow on-site 'vanners with a direct supply kit what they thought and the conclusion is, don't want to take the potential risk. I use an ARoll and Float Valve setup and (usually!) turn the Pump switch off when I go out so feel reasonably safe. My query is... given the trend appears to still be AR and Valve setup over Direct Feed one, has anyone seen a compact external tank so that you don't need the AR and can use something like a compact 10 litre container, that already has a valve controlled water inlet (with suitable hoselock type connector) which then offers a top entry for your water draw-off pipe? I think there's a good market for something like this Cheers

I have found this on Amazon but would like something a little more compact but this is the general idea. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Caravan-Ma...2472879858-B01BCG9CB8-&hvexpln=0&gad_source=1

It may be possible to use a central heating header tank as a basis - but I'm not sure they're "food grade"

 

[otherclive]

A 10 litre container is limited by the fact it has to hold 10 litres plus connections for the hosepipe inlet. But there are quite a number of different designs on Google search “compact camping drinking water container”
This might be suitable.

12 Litre Flat Water Tank

Our 12 Litre Flat Water Tank is manufactured from tough and durable polyethylene and is suitable for the storage and transportation of liquids including drinking water. The tank features a semi-translucent design which is ideal for seeing the water level inside the tank. Suitable for storing...

www.kingfisherdirect.co.uk

 

[Niall_McIntosh]

As a point of interest I am on my second one of these in 25 years. Note it is made by FLHitchman , the manufacturer of the Aquaroll

Aquaroll Mains Adaptor Ball Value | FL HITCHMAN

That's what I have as well. On a couple of occasions, the ballcock didn't stop the water supply, leading to the aquaroll overflowing. On both occasions, a strip down found some grit in the diaphragm was the cause.

 

[Buckman]

We have been using direct feed for the past 5 - 6 years and saved us carrying aquarolls and waste container. No issues. Back in 2016 we were using an aquaroll when a pipe by the filter came loose. It flooded the caravan while we were in the caravan as the pipe was hidden behind the drawers. It was only when we got up from watching TV to use the loo at the rear we realised that the carpets were sopping wet.

 

[otherclive]

We have been using direct feed for the past 5 - 6 years and saved us carrying aquarolls and waste container. No issues. Back in 2016 we were using an aquaroll when a pipe by the filter came loose. It flooded the caravan while we were in the caravan as the pipe was hidden behind the drawers. It was only when we got up from watching TV to use the loo at the rear we realised that the carpets were sopping wet.

But couldn’t the pipe failure have occurred using direct pressure feed too?

 

[Buckman]

But couldn’t the pipe failure have occurred using direct pressure feed too?

Of course. I am saying it would make no difference if using aquaroll or direct feed. The caravan will still be flooded.

 

[German in the blood]

Why not just fill the onboard tank then turn the tap off no issue then of water flooding the caravan, All three of our caravans have had onboard tanks the Adria's have a filler cap, The swift just use same fill point.

 

[Dustydog]

Of course. I am saying it would make no difference if using aquaroll or direct feed. The caravan will still be flooded.

Ian
I have to disagree.🙀

Direct feed , the caravan pipes and on board system are facing direct mains pressure.

Aquaroll using the adaptor will only flood the caravan if the pump activates and then a pipe fails. There is , in the normal usage no direct mains pressure applied to the caravan pipes.
If the adaptor fails , all that happens is the aquaroll will overflow, no damage inside .

 

[JTQ]

Of course. I am saying it would make no difference if using aquaroll or direct feed. The caravan will still be flooded.

Except, importantly with the rudimentary reducing valves typically used, with the direct feed the van's pipework could be exposed to whatever the water utilities' pressure is.
Therefore, could be anything from the legal minimum of one up to 4 bar , about 60 psi.
Whereas, with the higher pressure submersible pumps we use in our Aquarolls etc, these peek at about two bar, the design limit for much of the water system kit.
It only takes a bit of detritus, as exampled above, coming down the hose.

 

[RogerL]

Ian
I have to disagree.🙀

Direct feed , the caravan pipes and on board system are facing direct mains pressure.

Aquaroll using the adaptor will only flood the caravan if the pump activates and then a pipe fails. There is , in the normal usage no direct mains pressure applied to the caravan pipes.
If the adaptor fails , all that happens is the aquaroll will overflow, no damage inside .

Direct feed often includes a pressure regulator - indeed some regulators are set to a lower pressure than the conventional submersible pump can achieve.

I use an aquaroll and submersible pump - with a hose from the water point I just top the barrel up once a day.

 

[Buckman]

Ian
I have to disagree.🙀

Direct feed , the caravan pipes and on board system are facing direct mains pressure.

Aquaroll using the adaptor will only flood the caravan if the pump activates and then a pipe fails. There is , in the normal usage no direct mains pressure applied to the caravan pipes.
If the adaptor fails , all that happens is the aquaroll will overflow, no damage inside .

Our caravan flooded using an aquaroll and there was nothing anyone could have done about it due to it being a pipe issue in the caravan. I never mentioned using the adaptor, but if a pipe fails, adaptor or not the caravan will still flood as the pump will activate as it senses loss of pressure as if a tap is open.

 

[Dustydog]

Our caravan flooded using an aquaroll and there was nothing anyone could have done about it due to it being a pipe issue in the caravan. I never mentioned using the adaptor, but if a pipe fails, adaptor or not the caravan will still flood as the pump will activate as it senses loss of pressure as if a tap is open.

True.
But the difference is the aquaroll scenario does not apply a constant mains pressure to the pipes whereas the direct link does.
Agreed if the unpressured pipe breaks the pump will trigger and flood.But the chances of a low pressure pipe failing compared to mains high pressure are vastly different.