SOS - legal towing weights

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Michael,

JohnGriff does have it basically right, and if you stick to that then you should be legally OK

I am not going to get into the detailed calculations for you, but the issue of outfit matching can become quite complex when you are up against so many limits for different things.

The regulations are quite specific, and if you are prepared to look in detail, you might find you can squeeze some extra payload into the caravan, but as you have seen in the previous replies it becomes quite difficult to sort it all out even for experienced towers.

I think you are right to be only considering a two berth with your current licence restrictions, It would make a big difference if you were to look at the towing extension to your licence.

 

[Steve L]

Hi michael.

I do hope we haven't put you off with the various bickerings and interpretations of the law.

Lutz is quite right to say that the nose weight of the caravan is considered as part of the load on the car.

By the same token, I have had first hand experience of VOSA as I previously towed a 20ft twin axle van with my 1998cc Laguna estate quite legally despite most coppers thinking it "looked too big for the car". So I know that VOSA are primarily concerned with Gross train weight (car & caravan), then caravan weight, then car weight and finally hitch weight.

You should be able to find a 4 berth van of light weight construction. My twin axle van had a max gross of 1365 Kgs.

I would realy recommend taking a towing coarse and test as you will certainly gain confidence and also expand your choice of caravan. Things have come a long way in training compared to my try it and see approach some 32 years ago.

Both the caravan clubs offer excellent coarses and are only too willing to help.

Steve L.

 

[Michael_374390745]

Hello everyone,

This topic is certainly causing a debate

I have decided that a 2 berth is the way to go, I want peace of mind that I am towing within the law so would be more confident with a 2 berth lightweight van.

I think I have finally grassped the point Lutz is making regarding the noseweight. basically, the noseweight of the van when hitched to the car is added to the MAM of the Car in addition to luggage, equipment etc.

?

Can someone please clarify the term unladen (kerb) weight, does this include a full tank of fuel and the weight of driver?

What I am trying to establish is how much capacity above the fuel and driver weight there is upto the max gross weight for equipment and passengers.

One other question in addition, regarding insurance - my car is a company vehicle and I have been granted permission to tow a van. My query is relating to the insurance, does standard insurance include cover for towing a van, ie: if in an incident on the road and then van is no longer tow-able, will the car insurance cover the cost of recovery of the van in addition to damage on the car.

sorry for all the questions, I am 28 years old and totally new to this caravanning malarky!

I am very excited by it all, I to be able to give my family some fun UK holidays at minimal expense once the van is bought,, just hitch up and go at any opportunity

 

[Steve L]

Now michael, as I understand most manufacturers specify the kerb weight of a car as the car plus a full tnak of fuel and all its associated oils. They do not assume any weight for driver.

You would have to check with your company's insurer as how you are covered for recovery. You are covered for third party towing risks by your car insurance. That is to say that should you cause damage to another persons car/property while towing then that damage will be paid for but not any damage to your property. I would for peace of mind, insure the caravan individually. It all gets a bit messy when dealing with employers insurers when using the company car for social and domestic use.

My father had such a claim. My mother had borrowed the company car to go to her parents and was involved in an accident. They thought it was all ok as both of them worked for the company. However the insurance decided that the car was only covered for it's asigned driver ie, my father. Then to get round this my father had to declare that he'd authorised my mother to drive the car on a business errand. Not quite the truth but it was the only way the insurance paid up for the damage which was about a third of the car's value.

So, I would realy make sure all the i's are dotted and the T's crossed and furthermore, get it in writing if at all possible.

Sorry to worry you further, but it is so much easier to sort these things out while the insurance company isn't trying to wriggle out of a claim!!

All the best.

Steve L.

 

[Lutz]

There is no legal definition of what is or what is not included in kerbweight. Convention within the UK car industry was that it does not include the driver but it does include a full fuel tank. However, foreign car manufacturers did not necessarily follow this practice. Therefore, to put everything on the same basis, the term kerbweight was officially replaced by the term unladen mass or mass in running order (MIRO). The latter is defined in EU Directive 95/48/EC to include 75kg for the driver and sundry items and a 90% full fuel tank. Many UK manufacturers have now adopted that definition in their interpretation of kerbweight. As a result, when talking about kerbweight, some car manufacturers still follow the old convention, but most equate kerbweight with MIRO. However, the EU directive is only specific in the case of motor vehicles such as cars and motor homes. It does not cover caravans so caravan manufacturers are still at liberty to decide for themselves what they want to include in their MIRO figures.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello again Michael,

In you last posting you say "I

 

[Michael_374390745]

Hello again Michael,

In you last posting you say "I

 

[Guest]

Just to throw tuppence into the discussion.

The max weight of the car is listed at 2120 kg but the kerb weight is 1615 kg. Curiously his axle loadings do not add up to the max weight, I guess a misprint somewhere. However, this leaves a maximum loading of 505 kg which is a heck of a lot. Basically 4 large adults and a lot of luggage in the boot. With a family of 2 and kids I doubt the max loading will be reached, unless his wife really wants to take the proverbial kitchen sink. 250-300 kg is probably a more realistic load factor so he can safely tow a van up to 1400 kg without too much hassle.

If he is really worried about the 3500 kg train weight then I believe you can take a test to extend your licence to cover greater weights.

 

[SBS]

"The max weight of the car is listed at 2120 kg but the kerb weight is 1615 kg. Curiously his axle loadings do not add up to the max weight, I guess a misprint somewhere. However, this leaves a maximum loading of 505 kg which is a heck of a lot. Basically 4 large adults and a lot of luggage in the boot. With a family of 2 and kids I doubt the max loading will be reached, unless his wife really wants to take the proverbial kitchen sink. 250-300 kg is probably a more realistic load factor so he can safely tow a van up to 1400 kg without too much hassle"

Scotch Lad,

He can't tow a 1400kg 'van on his current licence. The 3500kg tow limit for post '97 drivers is the total of the theoretical MAMs of the towing vehicle and the trailer. Therefore 3500 less 2120 (car MAM) = 1380 kg MAM or MTPLM. Unlike most other weight rules, the actual weight is irrelevant.

BTW the axle weights will be correct even though they add up to more than the MAM. This is to allow different weight distribution.

Mike