Speed Cameras

[Dusty1]

Mike P, it's inappropriate speed that is dangerous not speeding. The problem with scameras is that they cannot use discretion like a police officer can. Cameras do have there uses in the right places, for instance near schools but they are no use for picking up peoples bad driving.

I can think of many 'idiot driver' instances that do not involve speed. Driving these days is all about being totally aware of what is going on around you, being prepared for the unexpected (idiot driver!) and driving at a speed that is appropriate to your capabilities and the prevailling conditions.

 

[Alan4]

Mike P, it's inappropriate speed that is dangerous not speeding. The problem with scameras is that they cannot use discretion like a police officer can. Cameras do have there uses in the right places, for instance near schools but they are no use for picking up peoples bad driving.

I can think of many 'idiot driver' instances that do not involve speed. Driving these days is all about being totally aware of what is going on around you, being prepared for the unexpected (idiot driver!) and driving at a speed that is appropriate to your capabilities and the prevailling conditions.

How about the policeman that drove at over 140mph on motorway and up to 80mph on ordinary roads.

Today he had all charges dissmissed one rule for them !!!

 

[rayc]

Hopefully Keith will soon reach 12 points, and another idiot driver will be taken off the roads.

Mike, it will not just be Keith who will be banned.Rose Baker Professor of Statistics at Salford University says that if the number of cameras and mobile sites increases in line with government predictions, coupled with the lowering of prosecution thresholds, that the average driver can be expected to be banned thrice in their driving lifetimes. The vast majority of these drivers will be those who normally drive within the limit but have strayed over it. (Unlike a certain police officer who was aquitted today of dangerous driving and speeding in spite of doing 159mph on the motorway and 60 mph in a 30 mph limit in his unmarked patrol car - he was just getting familiar with it)

 

[rayc]

How about the policeman that drove at over 140mph on motorway and up to 80mph on ordinary roads.

Today he had all charges dissmissed one rule for them !!!

Alan, it was a very strange comment from the judge that he thought it ironic the policeman was being prosecuted by the very same people who had given him the car to drive and trained him to drive fast.

I was trained in the Army to fire a weapon but if I had gone round shooting people I am sure that I couldn't have used the excuse 'well you trained me to shoot so I did'.

 

[jon_5040776]

I honestly think that we are now reaching the point where the whole country will grind to a halt soon.

Yes, of course, speed cameras, in the right places, and with the right reasons, are acceptable. No, they are not, when they are used solely as a means of collecting revenue on open stretches of road, and motorways, where there is no realistic danger.

I firmly believe that if we were all to drive at the set speed limits, then we would soon have no business or industry left in this country. Orders would go abroad, and firms would go out of business.

What's next? The return of the man with the red flag walking in front of every vehicle?

I also firmly believe that if they had tried this on in say France, most of these cameras would by now be buried in undergrowth, after being 'removed' by the irate population.

We all speed, and we all take the consequences if we get caught, but it's gone way too silly now in the UK.

What you don't realise is that the rate of traffic flow actually increases with a decrease in speed. If everyone on motorways stuck to (say) 50mph then there would be no hold-ups. The problems occur when people speed 'cos the rest of us need to leave room to stop in time when they crash... so fewer cars fit on a given stretch of motorway at higher speeds.

 

[Steve L]

It's quite simple ladies and gents.

We know they're Bl**dy cash generators and we know the cash goes to getting more cameras.

The solution is just DON'T SPEED AND YOU WON'T HAVE TO PUT A DOWN PAYMENT TO ANOTHER CAMERA!!

I live in a rural location and even there we have four cameras in my thirty mile commute. So you see I could easily loose my license in just one mad dash to save a few seconds.

There now, feel better.

I'll get off my soap box.

 

[Tucson]

I think that the comment made by KEITH..........

"I firmly believe that if we were all to drive at the set speed limits, then we would soon have no business or industry left in this country. Orders would go abroad, and firms would go out of business."

......... is a most ridiculous statement.

You will find that the opposite is actually the case.

When traffic is travelling at the speed limit it moves freely BUT when some idiots (you know who you are) travel in excess of the speed limit they invariably have to brake hard at some point which causes a ripple effect. What then happens as a result is that traffic actually slows to well below the speed limit or even comes to a standstill.

This effect can easily be seen on motorways.

How often have you been driving along when FOR NO REASON the traffic either slows right down or even stops ??

Sadly there is very often a reason ............ that idiot who insisted on speeding then slamming his/her brakes on !!!!!!

 

[rayc]

I think that the comment made by KEITH..........

"I firmly believe that if we were all to drive at the set speed limits, then we would soon have no business or industry left in this country. Orders would go abroad, and firms would go out of business."

......... is a most ridiculous statement.

You will find that the opposite is actually the case.

When traffic is travelling at the speed limit it moves freely BUT when some idiots (you know who you are) travel in excess of the speed limit they invariably have to brake hard at some point which causes a ripple effect. What then happens as a result is that traffic actually slows to well below the speed limit or even comes to a standstill.

This effect can easily be seen on motorways.

How often have you been driving along when FOR NO REASON the traffic either slows right down or even stops ??

Sadly there is very often a reason ............ that idiot who insisted on speeding then slamming his/her brakes on !!!!!!

Tocson, Don't disagree with what you have said but it is a bit simplistic to blame bunching and stop go to drivers exceeding the speed limit. Can you tell me why that when I am travelling round the M25, and the traffic is free flowing, I then get to the variable speed area, around Heathrow to Gatwick stretch, which is normally set to 50 or 60 everything starts to bunch up?

It was also interesting to read the report on the trial of the M5 experiment to keep caravans on the inside lane. The conclusion was that the cause of the blockages was due to cars travelling to fast (but not above the speed limit) and then causing the effect that you describe.

 

[Tucson]

RAY I agree that it can't all be blamed on stop/go drivers and I have no answer for the situation you describe on the M25 (if I had I would be rich lol).

BUT ........ those who drive at excess speed have to accept that they can and do cause problems AND stop moaning when they get points and a fine.

It makes no difference if we agree or disagree with a particular speed limit .......... we are legally required to comply with it.

I would love to sit in a court and listen to a driver tell the magistrates "I did not comply with the speed limit because I dont agree with it". You can imagine the response that would get !!!!

 

[Daventura]

It isnt that most people disagree with speed restrictions where appropriate it is the argument that everyone can stray, at times over the limit. Also less experienced drivers might find themselves watching their sppeedo. at the precise time that they should be watching the road! What makes me furious is the time s Ive seen drivers passing cameras within the speed limits but using their mobile phone and even looking at a road map! Which is the most dangerous, one of these idiots or some poor tax paying, insured driver doing a few more mph because they are concentrating on the road ahead? Mike P really is living in cloud cuckooland!

 

[jacky3]

30 years unblemished then 6pts in 1 month,covert operations hiding behind wall,then one on grass verge side of hedge obscured until to late 'disgusting'they know what they are doing,and 'we all know what they are not doing '

 

[MikeP]

It isnt that most people disagree with speed restrictions where appropriate it is the argument that everyone can stray, at times over the limit. Also less experienced drivers might find themselves watching their sppeedo. at the precise time that they should be watching the road! What makes me furious is the time s Ive seen drivers passing cameras within the speed limits but using their mobile phone and even looking at a road map! Which is the most dangerous, one of these idiots or some poor tax paying, insured driver doing a few more mph because they are concentrating on the road ahead? Mike P really is living in cloud cuckooland!

I am not living in cloud cuckooland, but I do have a clean licence. Comments such as "when they are used solely as a means of collecting revenue on open stretches of road, and motorways, where there is no realistic danger" tend to come from people who decide to speed rather than just "drift over the limit".

What annoys me are the people who moan that speed limits are too low and claim that they are driving at "safe" speeds when they deliberately exceed the limit. They go on to say that road surfaces are so much better, and that their cars have much better brakes and suspension and reduced braking distances. That may be so, but our roads are so much busier than 10 or 20 years ago so a direct comparison cannot be made. Why can't these people stop moaning, and accept that penalty points and fines are a result of their wilful actions?

Deciding to speed leads to increased costs and emissions, greater risk of an accident and (ironically) greater likelihood of creating "stop-start" traffic jams on motorways. Try this one day - set your cruise at 70mph and see how many cars zoom past you - not just 4 or 5 mph over the limit, but 30mph+. It is rife on the M23 and M25.

 

[Daventura]

I am not living in cloud cuckooland, but I do have a clean licence. Comments such as "when they are used solely as a means of collecting revenue on open stretches of road, and motorways, where there is no realistic danger" tend to come from people who decide to speed rather than just "drift over the limit".

What annoys me are the people who moan that speed limits are too low and claim that they are driving at "safe" speeds when they deliberately exceed the limit. They go on to say that road surfaces are so much better, and that their cars have much better brakes and suspension and reduced braking distances. That may be so, but our roads are so much busier than 10 or 20 years ago so a direct comparison cannot be made. Why can't these people stop moaning, and accept that penalty points and fines are a result of their wilful actions?

Deciding to speed leads to increased costs and emissions, greater risk of an accident and (ironically) greater likelihood of creating "stop-start" traffic jams on motorways. Try this one day - set your cruise at 70mph and see how many cars zoom past you - not just 4 or 5 mph over the limit, but 30mph+. It is rife on the M23 and M25.

Just because theres a sign with a number on it it doesnt mean that it is the right or apprpropriate speed for that particular road! Quite often, because of other factors, people can stray past the limit and this is treated unfairly whilst drugged up drivers, drunk drivers, those with no tax, insurance or sometimes even without a license are never caught! When it is seen that these morons are caught and suitably punished then maybe legal drivers over the limit WILL say 'fair cop'! I also have a clean license after 37 years.

 

[Lol1]

30 years unblemished then 6pts in 1 month,covert operations hiding behind wall,then one on grass verge side of hedge obscured until to late 'disgusting'they know what they are doing,and 'we all know what they are not doing '

Ouch! 6 points in one month, it's no joke. Unfortunately it isn't rare these days, you may not even be aware you have collected points until the envelope drops on the front door mat. So, someone can end up being banned, their livelihood ripped from them and all the problems that follow, just for straying over the limit where by all accounts' it is safe to do so. I don't condone speeding, I too have a clean licence, but something needs to be done to ensure these cameras are used in the correct places and for a good reason. Incidentally, wheel clampers have just been issued with regulations and hopefully they have been reigned in, is it possible that the same will happen to our camera operators, or is it just a money thing?

 

[Dusty1]

A similar thing happened with my father-in-law just over 12 months ago. He will be 90 next month and had a 70 year unbleamished record until collecting 2 speeding tickets in the space of 6 weeks. Before anyone starts, his is as spritely and alert as any 70 year old and is still probably a better driver than many on the roads today.

 

[Dusty1]

A similar thing happened with my father-in-law just over 12 months ago. He will be 90 next month and had a 70 year unbleamished record until collecting 2 speeding tickets in the space of 6 weeks. Before anyone starts, his is as spritely and alert as any 70 year old and is still probably a better driver than many on the roads today.

Eh, can't spell again, should be 'unblemished'. Moderator, please can we have an edit facility?

 

[Brian_5062637]

What you don't realise is that the rate of traffic flow actually increases with a decrease in speed. If everyone on motorways stuck to (say) 50mph then there would be no hold-ups. The problems occur when people speed 'cos the rest of us need to leave room to stop in time when they crash... so fewer cars fit on a given stretch of motorway at higher speeds.

It's called Variable Speed Limits see M25 near Heathrow. It worked well until they started the roadworks

 

[Ogre]

Message for Mike P.

I don't speed Mike, so I have no fear of them.

I also have a clean license, and have had for over 25 years. Have you?

I am under 50, and drive carefully. Do you?

I DO think they are there to gather cash. Don't you?

I think you've lost the plot........Have you?

 

[Ogre]

Tucson:

I see what you're saying, but try this.

Yesterday, on my way to Plymouth on the A38 Devon Expressway, I came up behind over a mile queue of traffic, all moving at 65/67 mph.

The reason. A police car travelling at about 63mph.

Previously, the traffic had all been flowing freely, without any problems whatsoever.

Please tell me what the point is of having Motorways and Expressways that can't be used to increase traffic flow between major cities?

The whole point I made is this. In European countries, Germany in particular (where I drive frequently on business incidentally), more business gets done because the Motorways have (generally), a 130 kph limit. Here in the UK we are tied to this moronic 70mph. People on business are therefore unable to travel effectively as a result.

And NO, I am very definitely NOT a supporter of the EU

I often have to get up to travel to Harwich, Dover and Poole to catch ferries to the continent, and flights from Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted. I leave home at 2 and 4 am. At that time of morning, I can promise you that not only are the Motorways deserted, 70 mph is a very sad speed indeed in a modern car, but you can't travel sensibly because our rulers tell us so, and have put flashing money meters up to make sure we don't.

THEN, they wonder why the UK is losing business to foreign competitors!!! Remember Rover, British Steel, Harland and Wolf,

and Jaguar??

All of these companies are ones that I USED to do business with!!

.

 

[MikeG1]

Evem though this is a lengthy topic and could possibly go on and on I thought I'd like to say what no one else has. How can you say these cameras are put in places in the name of saftey? I do not knowingly speed at any time but on a motorway, or any other road for that matter, how often does your speed creap up. I do not have the luxury of cruise control so this happens very often especially on clear open roads. My motorway speed is generally between 70 andd 75 mph. Of course I'm breaking the law at 75 and when I notice I reduce to 70. The other thing is, when I see the camera sign I'm spending far to much time watching my speedo, far to much time looking for the dreaded camera, is this safe ? I don't think so but I'm sure most do it. When driving, especially on motorways they say you spend a lot of you time looking in your mirror, anyone know how much ? Then you spend a lot of time looking for cameras and at your speedo, just how much of your time is spent watching where your going ? I don't like speedsters and I don't like cameras, of the two, I like cameras less because speedsters go past and leave me to get on with what I should be doing, concentrating on the road. Cameras don't.

As regards the 10% thing that people think is allowed, there has to be some tolerance as I'm sure not all speedos register speed exactly the same. They have tolerances and allowable limits. Cameras must have too, or at least the people who look at the pictures should. Ever tried arguing ? Saying the camera is wrong ? They would have to check it, costly to say the least. Would they let you off and hope all the others cough up ? Do they withdraw all notices and check the camera ? Something to think about eh ??

Mike

 

[Colin_5068433]

Evem though this is a lengthy topic and could possibly go on and on I thought I'd like to say what no one else has. How can you say these cameras are put in places in the name of saftey? I do not knowingly speed at any time but on a motorway, or any other road for that matter, how often does your speed creap up. I do not have the luxury of cruise control so this happens very often especially on clear open roads. My motorway speed is generally between 70 andd 75 mph. Of course I'm breaking the law at 75 and when I notice I reduce to 70. The other thing is, when I see the camera sign I'm spending far to much time watching my speedo, far to much time looking for the dreaded camera, is this safe ? I don't think so but I'm sure most do it. When driving, especially on motorways they say you spend a lot of you time looking in your mirror, anyone know how much ? Then you spend a lot of time looking for cameras and at your speedo, just how much of your time is spent watching where your going ? I don't like speedsters and I don't like cameras, of the two, I like cameras less because speedsters go past and leave me to get on with what I should be doing, concentrating on the road. Cameras don't.

As regards the 10% thing that people think is allowed, there has to be some tolerance as I'm sure not all speedos register speed exactly the same. They have tolerances and allowable limits. Cameras must have too, or at least the people who look at the pictures should. Ever tried arguing ? Saying the camera is wrong ? They would have to check it, costly to say the least. Would they let you off and hope all the others cough up ? Do they withdraw all notices and check the camera ? Something to think about eh ??

Mike

The simple answer to all this is to buy a Nissan X Trail dCI.

The speedometer is so over optimistic, that you can travel down the motorway all day at an indicated 90mph and never have any problems, as in real time you are only just exceeding 70mph by a fraction!

 

[James_5068972]

Antidote to the problem? Move to Scotland! Went to the North West last week, and once I got off the motorways, I didn't see a single camera in all the 400-odd miles i drove. For the sensible driver, no speed limits slower than you would like to drive; I saw not a single crash in my week there; and there was not a single Jam. The roads were practically destered, even on the bank holiday, and I actually enjoyed myself driving - something I haven't done in a long time. There are still motoring havens out there, but for how much longer, i wonder?

James

 

[Bob_5072217]

Also be aware when towing its 50mph on single carriageways. The new cameras can detect car/caravan combos.(as I found out on the A15 Lincolnshire recently)

 

[Ogre]

A.38 Devon Expressway.

Now they're on the bridges. Tripod style cameras above all lanes, and nasty little silver and blue vans which don't show up at a distance.

Also another (yes another) camera location in Plymouth, where I believe there are more speed cameras than any other location in the UK.

Travelling in towards the city, be aware of the Speed Camera Partnership van (grey/blue) which parks on the grass intersection at the embankment/Mutley turn, about half a mile after the Sainsbury's turn off. They have a view of all three lanes, so braking at the last minute aint going to do you any good at all!

 

[Fubar]

A77 Cameras

regarding the previous comment on driving in Scotland, it is certainly no haven free of Speed Camaras!

have a look at this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4681507.stm

the A77 now has cameras that measure your AVERAGE speed over a 28 mile stretch, and do NOT flash you.

the A77 runs from Ayr up to Glasgow, and admittedly has an appalling safety record.

Mark (",)