Speed cameras

[Buckman]

....did you miss the 30mph signs both sides of the B4197 as you pass the Great Witley village signs heading towards the T junction with the A433?

I was referring to coming off the B road and turning left into the A443 as there are no 30mph signs for a fair distance and only after where the camera van was parked. We travel that route frequently and this is the first time we have see it parked there.

Normally they park on the left as you enter Great Witly from Worcester however most people have slowed down by then due to turning traffic into the B road.

 

[otherclive]

The link below is interesting as it describes how a speeding offence was dropped when the driver produced photos of foliage obscuring the signs. Later there’s discussion on when councils switch off street lighting in 30 mph speed limit areas and there’s no duty to install 30 mph repeater signs.

https://frankrogerslaw.co.uk/blog/speed-limit-signs

 

[Paullus1959]

As you approach a junction there should be a speed limit sign at the junction to inform you if there is a change in speed limit from that of the road you are leaving to the road you are joining. If there isn't a sign then there is no change in the speed limit. If however, there are no such signs and there is a change in speed limit from one road to the next then you have grounds for appeal. Same with obscured signs or road markings.
If an area has a 30mph limit and a system of street lights which are no more than 200yds/183m apart then 30mph repeater signs are not a requirement. If there is no street lighting then 30mph signs should mark the start of the limit and repeater signs should be present.

 

[Hutch]

The link below is interesting as it describes how a speeding offence was dropped when the driver produced photos of foliage obscuring the signs. Later there’s discussion on when councils switch off street lighting in 30 mph speed limit areas and there’s no duty to install 30 mph repeater signs.

https://frankrogerslaw.co.uk/blog/speed-limit-signs

That is an interesting read, especially about no requirement for speed limit repeaters.

 

[Kenno]

Very recently, before and after this village in Northumberland, the small village of Whittonstall, a 30mph limit appeared for quite some distance before and after the village. Travelling at 30mph I am regularly overtaken at speed in this area.
When travelling East just after the 30mph finishes there is a farm that has poor visibility to the entrance and often has tractor and trailers stopping.

I travel this road 8 times on a weekday for over 10 years and have never seen or heard of any accidents, unlike the crossroads about half a mile further west where the limit is 60mph. Now just waiting for the arrival of the camera van.
I agree with the 30mph and then 20mph in school hours through the village .
As you can see there are no pavements or houses anywhere near these straight sections. It is rare to see a cyclist and I've never seen a walker on these sections. Someone with authority must live in the area!

 

[ProfJohnL]

There is a widespread misconception that speeding offences will only be pursued when the offender is clocked in excess of 10% over the speed limit. The statutes do not prescribe any such leniency, In theory you could be prosecuted for any amount over the limit regardless of how little you are in excess of the limit.

The difficulty for the prosecution is accuracy of the measurement system used to detect the offence, and where an offence is alleged that falls within the limits of uncertainty for the detector, there is a chance the detector may have registered a speed that was greater than vehicles real speed, and the accused can legitimately call into question the accuracy of the detector.

Prosecutions that fail for such reasons are a cost to the forces, and the legal system, so to eliminate the possibility of driver challenges about the accuracy of the detector the APCO organisation has advised forces to only seek a prosecution where there can be no doubt as to detection of the offence.

It is only an advisory and has no basis in law, and any force could reduce or remove any advisory leniency at any location at any time without warning.

It should be noted that the precision of detection systems is improving, and if these are verified to be more accurate than present methods its entirely possible the APCO advice could tighten or remove the margins of leniency.

If you don't want to be caught speeding - don't speed.

 

[Buckman]

If you don't want to be caught speeding - don't speed.

No one has mentioned the limits at which you can be prosecuted for speeding as that is not the issue here! The issue here is that in this case the camera van is not a safety deterrent, but definitely there to catch out law abiding motorists who enter the A road from the B road and is a money making scheme due to lack of 30mph signage!

 

[Hutch]

No one has mentioned the limits at which you can be prosecuted for speeding as that is not the issue here! The issue here is that in this case the camera van is not a safety deterrent, but definitely there to catch out law abiding motorists who enter the A road from the B road and is a money making scheme due to lack of 30mph signage!

The 30 MPH limit is just after where you state the van is parked, what is the problem. It is visible on Street view.
Residents have been known to ask the Police service to place speed cameras, at certain places to deter speeding drivers. Maybe this is the possible in this case.

 

[otherclive]

In the right conditions the speed camera vans can detect speeding at 1-2 miles. Travelling regularly on the M4 towards Bridgend I know that there are favoured spots where the vans park up. One is on a bridge after a sweeping left hand curve on the motorway. Those who travel the route tend to know this and apply brakes, some even slowing to below 60 mph. This can be a safety hazard in its own right. If they just stayed at 70 mph around the bend there would be no speeding tickets and no consequential safety hazard.

 

[Buckman]

The 30 MPH limit is just after where you state the van is parked, what is the problem. It is visible on Street view.
Residents have been known to ask the Police service to place speed cameras, at certain places to deter speeding drivers. Maybe this is the possible in this case.

However you cannot see the speed restriction even with 100% eyesight until you have been caught speeding as the camera will monitor the car's speed quite a way back. I am referring to cars coming out of the B road.

The motorist accelerates up the incline before it goes onto the flat and as they crest the incline, that is when they will be caught as they will not be aware of the 30mph sign and more than likely they will be exceeding the speed limit as it is a rural area.

No issue with residents asking police to place speed cameras, but they should be where there are safety concerns and speed signs in the correct place. If you speed in an area clearly marked with a speed restriction then you deserve the ticket.

 

[Dustydog]

There’s one very poorly sited near me. Leave the A419 at 70,a tight “S” slip road and 30 just by the roundabout , 20 yards later 20 mph. A very poor design from 1996 which is currently under review by our Local Town Council and Wiltshire Highways.But yes a honeypot trap to catch the less observant motorist who misses the 20 because of observing traffic on the roundabout! The Mobile cameraman waited next to the roundabout and had a field day. He’s long gone now because of the number of cases contested.

Us locals who know it’s 20 often get abuse from outsiders who think it’s 30!

I see APCO is mentioned??? I think It should be ACPO Association of Chief Police Officers . I guess a bit like mis reading or missing a speed sign😉😉

 

[Raywood]

The simple fact is that if you know you are speeding you are taking a risk of being caught and nothing about entrapment makes any difference. There are some instances of them trapping the unwary by silly placement of these but or bad signposting but otherwise I think you simply have to take the punishment.
My sister was summoned for 1 mph over the limit but that was Teesside where different rules seem to apply and took he speed awareness option rather than risking a challenge. I was also stopped by the Police in the same area when they said I had swerved across the road for no reason, but somehow changed their mind when the spotted the dash cam so beware in that area.

 

[Buckman]

The simple fact is that if you know you are speeding you are taking a risk of being caught and nothing about entrapment makes any difference. There are some instances of them trapping the unwary by silly placement of these but or bad signposting but otherwise I think you simply have to take the punishment.
My sister was summoned for 1 mph over the limit but that was Teesside where different rules seem to apply and took he speed awareness option rather than risking a challenge. I was also stopped by the Police in the same area when they said I had swerved across the road for no reason, but somehow changed their mind when the spotted the dash cam so beware in that area.

I don't think any one is disagreeing that if you know you are speeding, you need to take the rap! Fair cop!
The speed awareness course I am told costs about £80 so not cheap. When i was caught many years ago I was slightly over the limit and a fair cop as I was not paying attention to my driving at the time. On reporting it to the insurance company, it made no difference to my premium or any future premiums, but I had the points for 5 years.

 

[Dustydog]

I don't think any one is disagreeing that if you know you are speeding, you need to take the rap! Fair cop!
The speed awareness course I am told costs about £80 so not cheap. When i was caught many years ago I was slightly over the limit and a fair cop as I was not paying attention to my driving at the time. On reporting it to the insurance company, it made no difference to my premium or any future premiums, but I had the points for 5 years.

Some years ago I got done for 63 on a 60 mph. The fine was £110 plus 3 points on my licence for five years. I was told this was reportable to my Insurer. However another option was a driving awareness course , about four hours , cost £90, no points and no need to notify Insurers. The course was brilliant and worth every penny.

 

[ProfJohnL]

No one has mentioned the limits at which you can be prosecuted for speeding as that is not the issue here! The issue here is that in this case the camera van is not a safety deterrent, but definitely there to catch out law abiding motorists who enter the A road from the B road and is a money making scheme due to lack of 30mph signage!

See #18, #19 and #21

If you don't speed, you won't be worried where or how speed cameras are placed so its highly relevant.

 

[Buckman]

See #18, #19 and #21

If you don't speed, you won't be worried where or how speed cameras are placed so its highly relevant.

Totally irrelevant to my original post which was not about speeding, but lack of signage causing drivers to exceed the speed limit without knowing it.

 

[Hutch]

I was referring to coming off the B road and turning left into the A443 as there are no 30mph signs for a fair distance and only after where the camera van was parked. We travel that route frequently and this is the first time we have see it parked there.

Normally they park on the left as you enter Great Witly from Worcester however most people have slowed down by then due to turning traffic into the B road.

Buckman is this the junction you are talking about.

 

[otherclive]

Totally irrelevant to my original post which was not about speeding, but lack of signage causing drivers to exceed the speed limit without knowing it.

Why not advise the local councillor or MP as locals know the problem, but visitors, delivery drivers etc are likely to be caught out as they exit the side road onto the through road.

 

[Buckman]

Buckman is this the junction you are talking about.

View attachment 5837

That is the junction. whether turning right or left the in both cases the 30mph signage is after where the camera van is sited. Hence no loner a safety camera but a money making scam!

 

[otherclive]

Buckman is this the junction you are talking about.

View attachment 5837

That signage is quite clear.

 

[Buckman]

That signage is quite clear.

You are 100% correct and I have never noticed them as been looking at vehicle in front or for vehicles approaching from either side.

 

[otherclive]

That is the junction. whether turning right or left the in both cases the 30mph signage is after where the camera van is sited. Hence no loner a safety camera but a money making scam!

But I thought that the speed limit going up to the T junction was 40 mph, so if that is the case I see nothing wrong with the placement of the 30 mph.

 

[Hutch]

You are 100% correct and I have never noticed them as been looking at vehicle in front or for vehicles approaching from either side.

The screenshot is from 2years ago, maybe the 30 MPH signs have been removed for roadworks and not replaced, but that would be very unusual. As they are on the grass verge.

 

[Buckman]

The screenshot is from 2years ago, maybe the 30 MPH signs have been removed for roadworks and not replaced, but that would be very unusual. As they are on the grass verge.

i think that because I am aware that it is a 30mph zone and have been driving down those roads for years I have become a bit lax looking for speed restrictions in that area. if they upped it to 40mph I would probably continue travelling at 30mph. LOL!

 

[otherclive]

i think that because I am aware that it is a 30mph zone and have been driving down those roads for years I have become a bit lax looking for speed restrictions in that area. if they upped it to 40mph I would probably continue travelling at 30mph. LOL!

I can understand your comment as not long after I passed my test I drove to Interlaken My father gave me a bit of advice when he explained that some accidents occur when holiday makers who have driven home and are nearing home then the familiarity with their home area leads to a reduction in concentration and an accident. I was heartened by his concern for me and my then to be Mrs OC. But in reality it was probably more to do with protecting his Singer Gazelle from accident damage.