Storage and Contract terms (cleaning my caravan during winter being refused)

[meCara]

Hi all, I purchased a caravan in 2023 and obtaind storage and on a farm site. The storage covers standing my van on a grass field which I can use for camping during the April to October season. It's a basic site that has showers toilets and a small play area. We pay a yearly amount for storage and pay extra each night we stay in the caraven over the summer period.

I recently did a check on my caravan and noticed some grime and algie on the outside so notified the site owner that I would return in a few days to clean it off. The reply from the site owner was a clear no can do until the start of the season. Seriously I replied I just want to clean my caravan. The reply was due to public liability I could not go on site to clean my van.

I said I've just been on site and you do allow me to check my van and so you would have to be covered my public liability for that, yes was the reply, correct you can come on site but not to carry out work to the caravan just to check it.

I have pleaded with the site owner to let me just wash my caravan on this one occasion, the reply was: take the caravan off site wash it then return it to site.

The site is often boggy this time of year and several caravaners have even had to be pulled out by the site owners when the site opens in April so I pleaded again stating this to the site owner but they are now ignoring me.

The storage contract does not contain any clauses that prohibit cleaning of caravans during winter months and the site owner has acknowledged that they have siad I can visit the site to check on my caravan all the contract does is outlines the pricing and general rules. It seems a bit rediculous to me but wonder what advice if any can be offered?

 

[otherclive]

Since there is nothing in the contract the site owner can enforce whatever rules he likes, however unreasonable they may seem. My last site had a hard standing area where you could move the caravan to and give its wash down. Is that an option for your site.? If not, then April isn't far away and you can then give its good wash and spring clean.

 

[meCara]

Since there is nothing in the contract the site owner can enforce whatever rules he likes, however unreasonable they may seem. My last site had a hard standing area where you could move the caravan to and give its wash down. Is that an option for your site.? If not, then April isn't far away and you can then give its good wash and spring clean.

That is interesting are you sure the site owner can impose an open ended, one sided, contract the can be expanded at will? I was under the impression you can not add legal clauses to a contract unless they form part of the contract agreement. I was under the impression that site rules are normally in written form and to have any legally binding effect need to be incoperated into the contract. If you rent a property you have to give clear description of each sides obligations, you can not add clauses after signing a contract for rent I am assuming a contract for storage and would be along similar lines.

There is nothing in the contract that prohibits cleaning a caravan on site in fact I have done that during the summer, the contract is comprehensive in most respects otherwise. There are no written site rules as such just a contract.

There is plenty of had standing leading up to the field entrance to the site which is not in use during the winter by any vehicles etc. The owner has made it very obvious they would not allow me to use the hard standing as that would be allowing me to clean my caravan on site.

My caravan is located on a grass field, it is not near any other caravans.

The owner said I would be allowed to wash my caravan etc and do general maintenance when we first arrived (no restrictions added at that point) but has just decided a few days ago to change their mind.

 

[otherclive]

That is interesting are you sure the site owner can impose an open ended, one sided, contract the can be expanded at will? I was under the impression you can not add legal clauses to a contract unless they form part of the contract agreement. I was under the impression that site rules are normally in written form and to have any legally binding effect need to be incoperated into the contract. If you rent a property you have to give clear description of each sides obligations, you can not add clauses after signing a contract for rent I am assuming a contract for storage and would be along similar lines.

There is nothing in the contract that prohibits cleaning a caravan on site in fact I have done that during the summer, the contract is comprehensive in most respects otherwise. There are no written sight rules as such just a contract.

There is plenty of had standing leading up to the field entrance to the site which is not in use during the winter by any vehicles etc. The owner has made it very obvious they would not allow me to use the hard standing as that would be allowing me to clean my caravan on site.

My caravan is located on a grass field, it is not near any other caravans.

The owner said I would be allowed to wash my caravan etc and do general maintenance when we first arrived (no restrictions added at that point) but has just decided a few days ago to change their mind.

Since you are so sure best to dig out your wallet and engage a solicitor, or use your insurance legal helpline? You say the contract is comprehensive yet in post 1 you say it just has some general rules. Which is it?

Sensibly you seem to be in an impasse with the site owner and if it were me I’d try and recover my relationship with them, as you don’t want to be asked to leave at the end of the contract term.

 

[IanB1485]

I sympathise as it seems like a simple request from your point of view, but I agree with the site owner.Looking at it from the site owners perspective if he allowed owners to clean or work on their their vans whist on his property and they damaged adjoining vans ( ladders , brushes and even persons falling against them) , the adjoining caravan owner(s) would sue the site owner not you . I get this a lot when my clients ask me to service/repair their caravans/motorhomes/campers whilst in storage . I ask them to confirm with the site owner that this is OK and often the site owner will ask that the caravan is moved out of line to an area with lots of space around it, and some simply say no. its their land so there rules. Also they have no control on what chemicals you will use and whether they will get into water courses e.t.c.

 

[meCara]

I sympathise as it seems like a simple request from your point of view, but I agree with the site owner.Looking at it from the site owners perspective if he allowed owners to clean or work on their their vans whist on his property and they damaged adjoining vans ( ladders , brushes and even persons falling against them) , the adjoining caravan owner(s) would sue the site owner not you . I get this a lot when my clients ask me to service/repair their caravans/motorhomes/campers whilst in storage . I ask them to confirm with the site owner that this is OK and often the site owner will ask that the caravan is moved out of line to an area with lots of space around it, and some simply say no. its their land so there rules. Also they have no control on what chemicals you will use and whether they will get into water courses e.t.c.

I would like to say I am a caravan owner just wanting to wash off some grime before it gets engraned in my caravan. I am not acting in a commercial way as you do, nor is my caravan in any way close to any other caravans as you come across when caravans are stored 1m apart on a dedicated storage facility.

The site I currently store on is a combined sorage and camping site and all caravans including mine have at least 6m between them ( 6m being a legal requirement for camping in the UK). It's a site where your are pitched 6m apart from other vans (minimum) and use the pitch during the summer for camping and store it on the same 6m pitch for winter.

I have washed my caravan a few times on the site during the summer with the owner knowing (no problems then) so it's not a case of damaging other caravans as that would be almost impossible at 6m apart.

My caravan is actually 24m away from any other caravans on this site as it's in a corner away from the toilets where no one wants to locate.

Your point would be fair if my caravan was stored 1m apart from the next van as is often the case with some storage facilities.

I see what you have said but I think it would be very hard to justify on the grounds you have given bearing in mind my location on the site. I absolutly agree with what you have said for caravans on a cramped storage facility though.

 

[RogerL]

I can understand your frustration but I think it's better just to wait until the season starts - my health prevents me cleaning my caravan so I employ a valeter once a year to clean and polish it - it doesn't matter when in the year it's done as it would still have a year's dirt/grime on it.

 

[meCara]

I can understand your frustration but I think it's better just to wait until the season starts - my health prevents me cleaning my caravan so I employ a valeter once a year to clean and polish it - it doesn't matter when in the year it's done as it would still have a year's dirt/grime on it.

Frustrated is only part of how I feel. The current owner has not managed the site for long, has no personal experience of camping or caravaning and in less then 5 years has managed to loose half of the original caravan owners.

We do sometimes feel on edge when the site owner comes around to inspect when we use the pitch in summer and it has now got to a very uncomfortable stage.

After all how is washing my own caravan in the corner of a field tucked away from anyother caravan going to hurt anybody or anything, How?

 

[RogerL]

Frustrated is only part of how I feel. The current owner has not managed the site for long, has no personal experience of camping or caravaning and in less then 5 years has managed to loose half of the original caravan owners.

We do sometimes feel on edge when the site owner comes around to inspect when we use the pitch in summer and it has now got to a very uncomfortable stage.

After all how is washing my own caravan in the corner of a field tucked away from anyother caravan going to hurt anybody or anything, How?

Time to put your energy into finding somewhere else so you can relax when you use your caravan.

 

[IanB1485]

@meCara Given the extra information It becomes more clear and what I said obviously doesn't apply , apart from the last bit, his site, his rules and not wanting to disparage him too much IMO he might be a little stressed in having such a responsibility and not wanting to lose control. There may also be something going on in his life that is stressing him out.I would either just roll with it or find another storage site . We recently moved storage sites (One advantage of being a mobile engineer is I get to visit lots of storage facilities) not because of personality problems, they nearly doubled the rent so we moved it to a cheaper one.

 

[meCara]

Time to put your energy into finding somewhere else so you can relax when you use your caravan.

It's a shame but we are coming to think that to.

 

[meCara]

@meCara Given the extra information It becomes more clear and what I said obviously doesn't apply , apart from the last bit, his site, his rules and not wanting to disparage him too much IMO he might be a little stressed in having such a responsibility and not wanting to lose control. There may also be something going on in his life that is stressing him out.I would either just roll with it or find another storage site . We recently moved storage sites (One advantage of being a mobile engineer is I get to visit lots of storage facilities) not because of personality problems, they nearly doubled the rent so we moved it to a cheaper one.

Yes we have gone along with quite a bit but it's becoming harder as the goal posts seem to be on the move with no compromises.

Of course your buisness is nothing to do with me but it sounds like part of running your business means working on land owned by another buisness. The landowners gain financially from the caravan owners storage rates but what's the incentive gained from allowing you to work on their land? I'm only taking about the awkward ones...do they get a financial incentive to let you work on their site if not is it worth thinking about? Difficult one of course because one could lead to another, just a thought as you could state to the client that the amount needs to be added to the bill or paid directly by the client to the site owner. Hope I'm not too out of line.

 

[JTQ]

I seem to recall both the major clubs will not allow cleaning of caravans on their sites? What they allow in position in storage compounds I have no direct knowledge about.

It could well be his insurance does have clauses that limit what even owners may or may not do with their own vans during storage?

I sense the relationship with the site owner in this case has broken down and any further pushing to get your own way, however just you might feel it is, can't be in your interest; take his offer to do it later, or relocate either temporarily or permanently if that is unacceptable.
Good relationships are a very big plus, and something way better cultured, than destroyed in my experience.

 

[meCara]

I seem to recall both the major clubs will not allow cleaning of caravans on their sites? What they allow in position in storage compounds I have no direct knowledge about.

It could well be his insurance does have clauses that limit what even owners may or may not do with their own vans during storage?

I sense the relationship with the site owner in this case has broken down and any further pushing to get your own way, however just you might feel it is, can't be in your interest; take his offer to do it later, or relocate either temporarily or permanently if that is unacceptable.
Good relationships are a very big plus, and something way better cultured, than destroyed in my experience.

If someone tells me at the start I can wash my van or can't wash my van at certain times I can process that and make an informed decision if the site is for me. The problem here is I did ask the question at the outset and was told I could wash my van with no stipulatons added relating to winer time etc. It seem whatever the person is thinking at that time has to be obayed regardless of what was verbally agreed beforhand.

I would say a good relationship relies on may things the main ingredient being trust, if you can not trust a person then you are never going to be able to build a good relationship with that person.

It's a shame but seems the vibe is play along for now and move on!

 

[JTQ]

Was the "someone" the one who changed their stance. or previously hadn't got into the details of what happens when the site is closed?

Not that it really matters as the current owner is the one you have to keep in with, and I expect, as stated earlier, IMO arguing the toss is not in your best interest if you want to use what is now their site.

 

[meCara]

Was the "someone" the one who changed their stance?

Not that it really matters as the current owner is the one you have to keep in with, and I expect, as stated earlier, IMO arguing the toss is not in your best interest if you want to use what is now their site.

Yes that was the person, the current owner.

There are lots of storage solutions around for caravans where I live. We took a look at three recently as a precaution: one is very similar in many respects to where we are now, one is just storage with vans about 1.5m apart and the third also just storage but with vans about 2m apart.

I did a phone around about two years ago and there was at least six facilities with availability then, could have been more but we had enough to go on. I don't think we will have too much of a problem short or long term if we end up moving.

 

[JTQ]

Good news then, your problem's solved quite simply.

 

[meCara]

Good news then, your problem's solved quite simply.

We were not really thinking about moving until recently, we were going to try to work along with things but I guess some things get too much. Still peoples views on here have been important to me and very helpful. And yes we should be ok.