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[Beehpee]

We had smart meters fitted in august, took a while to have accurate costs visible on the in house display but now it’s accurate as to how much is being used at specific times and what it’s costing, took a couple of months to get a smart reading each month so I can see exactly where we are, now an automatic reading on the 19th every month is sent by gas and electric I can send extra readings at any time I like that gives me a constant costing so I can see where we stand as to how we stand as to if in credit or getting behind, thus far we have been in credit constantly and paying less than before the price jump, we use as we need but we just don’t waste.

BP

 

[otherclive]

We had smart meters fitted in august, took a while to have accurate costs visible on the in house display but now it’s accurate as to how much is being used at specific times and what it’s costing, took a couple of months to get a smart reading each month so I can see exactly where we are, now an automatic reading on the 19th every month is sent by gas and electric I can send extra readings at any time I like that gives me a constant costing so I can see where we stand as to how we stand as to if in credit or getting behind, thus far we have been in credit constantly and paying less than before the price jump, we use as we need but we just don’t waste.

BP

Is your reduced costs because of the unseasonable warmer weather, or changes in your usage spectrum? Or both ?

 

[Sam Vimes]

As far as I can make out there are a number of models of the actual smart meter that record usage but the communication hub responsible for transmitting and receiving data is limited to about 3 or 4 models.

Choice seems to be different between the North and South of the UK. The communication method is different between the North and South with only two companies managing this. Comms hub choices are subsequently different between the North and South.

Southern hubs can be fitted with external aerials whereas the Northern hubs can't. Southern hubs can supposedly work as a Mesh Network where the hubs talk to each other in adjacent locations until data can be sent to the Data Comms Company.

I'm surprised that with the wide spread usage of Wifi/Broadband in homes there aren't comms hubs that can connect to the internet this way.

Of course security is always a concern and having a device not under your control on a local network could have implications.

 

[Beachball]

Well i have a Octopus smart meter and just signed up for saving sessions earn rewards and at present we are in credit

 

[otherclive]

Well i have a Octopus smart meter and just signed up for saving sessions earn rewards and at present we are in credit

We use so little in the peak times that it would be difficult to decide what to switch off or not use at those times. Turning off the fridge freezer is a no no, as I’d probably forget to turn it back on. Switching one of our two lounge 5watt lamps off is hardly going to get National Grid out of a hole.

 

[Sam Vimes]

It's not just a question of switching stuff off or not using during peak times but moving some of those things to off peak times. For instance if you have baking to do which you normally do during the evening you could do at during the day. Also put on washing machine or water heaters during off peak periods.

 

[otherclive]

It's not just a question of switching stuff off or not using during peak times but moving some of those things to off peak times. For instance if you have baking to do which you normally do during the evening you could do at during the day. Also put on washing machine or water heaters during off peak periods.

I did say “ or not use during those times”. But our cooking is gas, so is water but that’s on for a very short time and doesn’t even use the pump. Looking at what we do and when still doesn’t give much, if any scope, to realise National Grids offer.

 

[Raywood]

Good luck with your induction hob. We started with one of those but it proved very unreliable and expensive to fix so switched to a gas hob (from bottles). It was really nice to use and more controllable than the gas but two of the control modules literally blew up. Even one of the replacements had a fault which was replaced f.o.c. But that was enough to make us go for a simpler solution.

This was not a cheap make either and fortunately I could repair it myself because the manufacturer decided to stop support in our area. £400 for each control module of which there were three. Typically the first one went just out of warranty. The second one not long after the first. Would have cost even more had we had to pay an engineer.

So far this Autumn has been very mild for us with temperatures in the 12-14 range which is better than some days in the summer. I think this is helping with the usage reduction since the bathroom underfloor heating hasn't been needed at all - yet!

Sam, I think you have been unlucky with the induction hob, we have had a Zanussi one for over five years and had no problems with it at all. Thet are veery good in use. Gas would not work for us though as we are not connected.

 

[Beachball]

A visual warmth from a Salt lamp to help the wife's COPD.
View attachment 4119

i think it might be good if i got one myself i to have asthma

 

[Hutch]

i think it might be good if i got one myself i to have asthma

I think it is more of a mental health help than anything else.

 

[Dustydog]

184 posts on I have read nothing that explains one single advantage in having a smart meter. We’ve had for years two different techie things that tell how much electricity power you are using second by second.
we pay by DD and have a system in place with BG where we receive a refund immediately our balance exceeds a certain level. We were lucky in the Mrs DD signed up to to BG scheme expiring next July. Initially more expensive , today we are laughing.
Like Hitch et al, thick jumpers , wraps etc and furry hot water bottles👍👍

 

[Hutch]

I think the advantage of the Smart meter is that the power consumption readings to in without me having to do them manually. And seeing how much power we consume, has given us a fairy good saving. Without it I would have been having the heating on all the time, And Mrs H would have been doing a lot more baking. Not now.

 

[Jcloughie]

184 posts on I have read nothing that explains one single advantage in having a smart meter. We’ve had for years two different techie things that tell how much electricity power you are using second by second.
we pay by DD and have a system in place with BG where we receive a refund immediately our balance exceeds a certain level. We were lucky in the Mrs DD signed up to to BG scheme expiring next July. Initially more expensive , today we are laughing.
Like Hitch et al, thick jumpers , wraps etc and furry hot water bottles👍👍

We have been against getting a smart meter in the past for two reasons. First, there were so many poor reviews when they first came out, and it was clear the technology was not up to the job. And second. We thought our old fashioned readings were fair, so we worried that a new calibration might go against us.

Now things have moved on, we (I mean she), are still anti. I actually don't have a problem with them now. But I lose that argument every time.

Advantages: No readings to do. For me, it means emptying a hall cupboard. In the future, I feel sure that there will be the opportunity to have focused readings aimed at smoothing out national consumption. Possibly this may eventually be enforced but I think that that is a very long way off.

John

 

[otherclive]

I think the advantage of the Smart meter is that the power consumption readings to in without me having to do them manually. And seeing how much power we consume, has given us a fairy good saving. Without it I would have been having the heating on all the time, And Mrs H would have been doing a lot more baking. Not now.

It’s fairly clear that having heating on all the time is going to cost more than not having it on all the time. How would folks have responded to the COLC if smart meters had not been invented. Like we did in previous times of economic turmoil ( inflation 25%, interest rates 15-16%, miners strike blackouts) we cut our cloth accordingly.

 

[Hutch]

Just got back from being at the pub for a lunchtime couple of pints.
Last year I would have had the heating on all afternoon, whilst we were out, to have the house warm . Ok it has taken 1,/2 hour for the house to get up to heat again. But probably saved £2. In doing that.
The Smart meter has taught me how is best to use the heating.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Smart meters are principally an advantage to the energy supplier, as at least in theory it means the supplier can remotely read the meter without having to access the meter at the premises. It's an ancillary benefit to the user by allowing the convenient reading of the meter and displaying the cost of the energy used.

In themselves they do not reduce energy usage, that is entirely under the control of the user, but the smart meter informs the user of the present power consumption and that might encourage the user to turn items down or off.

The other shameful use of smart meters has recently come to light, and that is energy suppliers choosing to switch users to Pre Payment schemes without warning.

Another possible issue with smart meters which has not been widely made known is that conventional rotating disk electricity meters only record "real power" consumed, but AC loads often have an larger "Apparent currnt" which is due to the power factor that some inductive or reactive loads present. It is presently the case in the UK that Smart Meters must continue to record only real power, but smart meters are already capable of recording apparent power, it's just a question of the operator to signal to the meter to change to apparent power.

Watch this space.

 

[otherclive]

Smart meters are principally an advantage to the energy supplier, as at least in theory it means the supplier can remotely read the meter without having to access the meter at the premises. It's an ancillary benefit to the user by allowing the convenient reading of the meter and displaying the cost of the energy used.

In themselves they do not reduce energy usage, that is entirely under the control of the user, but the smart meter informs the user of the present power consumption and that might encourage the user to turn items down or off.

The other shameful use of smart meters has recently come to light, and that is energy suppliers choosing to switch users to Pre Payment schemes without warning.

Another possible issue with smart meters which has not been widely made known is that conventional rotating disk electricity meters only record "real power" consumed, but AC loads often have an larger "Apparent currnt" which is due to the power factor that some inductive or reactive loads present. It is presently the case in the UK that Smart Meters must continue to record only real power, but smart meters are already capable of recording apparent power, it's just a question of the operator to signal to the meter to change to apparent power.

Watch this space.

We haven’t had a meter reader read our meter in 3.5 years in this house, and even when we moved in myself and the previous owner took the readings and informed our respective suppliers. Your points about smart meters and how they measure power is interesting and as you say the day may well come when everyone has one and the basis of measurement is “improved for a better customer experience “

 

[Jcloughie]

Just got back from being at the pub for a lunchtime couple of pints.
Last year I would have had the heating on all afternoon, whilst we were out, to have the house warm . Ok it has taken 1,/2 hour for the house to get up to heat again. But probably saved £2. In doing that.
The Smart meter has taught me how is best to use the heating.

Years ago I tested the difference between the yoyo method of heating and the 24/7. I concluded that if it was very cold, 24/7 worked out similar in cost and much more comfortable. But to get the most out of it it needs fine regulating. That meant I needed to be adjusting the rad stats throughout the day.

The same thing happens now but with smart thermostats so when it is set up little needs to happen, it is mostly automatic. We went away for a few days last week, I just hit the ‘away’ switch in the app and all rads are reduced to 16, (or whatever it is preset to). Or click ‘frost’ if away for longer.

For example. The bedrooms are set for 15 at night. The picture demonstrates that the front (coldest) bedroom, turned from 15 to 16 at 7am. The heating reacted and the rad came on for half an hour. So I have made a slight adjustment as that room is hardly used.



John

 

[otherclive]

I do something similar in adjusting TRVs although not electronically. We rely on a mobile hive thermostat which generally sits in the lounge. If we go out as we did at lunchtime today I wind the lounge thermostat to 16 knowing it is unlikely to go to “ on” whilst we are out. Tomorrow I will wind the lounge TRVs to setting 4 and put the thermostat in the dining room so it’s warm in there when my grandson arrives for a day WFH. In that room the TRVs will be at max and the thermostat controls the temperature, whilst not overheating the lounge with the TRVs set at 4. Three of the bedrooms are set at frost protection, and ours is set at 3 on the TRV which seems to be 15 deg C. Upstairs doors are generally kept closed to allow the TRVs to function properly. For my office I decide whether to wind the trv up, or use an electric heater. It all depends on what’s happening in the rest of the house. Sounds complex but it’s a routine we have evolved prior to the COLC.

 

[Jcloughie]

I do something similar in adjusting TRVs although not electronically. We rely on a mobile hive thermostat which generally sits in the lounge. If we go out as we did at lunchtime today I wind the lounge thermostat to 16 knowing it is unlikely to go to “ on” whilst we are out. Tomorrow I will wind the lounge TRVs to setting 4 and put the thermostat in the dining room so it’s warm in there when my grandson arrives for a day WFH. In that room the TRVs will be at max and the thermostat controls the temperature, whilst not overheating the lounge with the TRVs set at 4. Three of the bedrooms are set at frost protection, and ours is set at 3 on the TRV which seems to be 15 deg C. Upstairs doors are generally kept closed to allow the TRVs to function properly. For my office I decide whether to wind the trv up, or use an electric heater. It all depends on what’s happening in the rest of the house. Sounds complex but it’s a routine we have evolved prior to the COLC.

The idea is as I do, though now electronically. To go smart works out about £70 per rad. But I have loos with uncontrolled towel rails, 1 bedroom, and a heated cupboard still on TRV’s.

There is extra comfort and it adds to economic running, but it will take years to recoup the outlay.

John

 

[Hutch]

With my smart meters, they cannot be changed remotely to a pay as you go system . As there is no slot to enter a card or memory stick.
They would physically have to be replaced..

 

[otherclive]

With my smart meters, they cannot be changed remotely to a pay as you go system . As there is no slot to enter a card or memory stick.
They would physically have to be replaced..

You don’t need a card slot they can be topped up in a way similar to topping up a pay as you go phone.

Prepayment Meters – What Do You Need To Know?

Prepayment meters allow households to pay for the energy they use in advance. Prepayment meters can stop households going into debt but are a more expensive way to pay for fuel.

www.switch-plan.co.uk

 

[ProfJohnL]

We haven’t had a meter reader read our meter in 3.5 years in this house, and even when we moved in myself and the previous owner took the readings and informed our respective suppliers. Your points about smart meters and how they measure power is interesting and as you say the day may well come when everyone has one and the basis of measurement is “improved for a better customer experience “

Apparent power will be worse for consumers, as it basically looks at the current used rather than the kWh of energy supplied. It differs becasue when powering inductive or reactive loads, the voltage and current are not necessarily in phase with each other, and inpractice the peak currents will be more than simple VA rating might suggest.

The problem isn't going to be massive for domestic users, as in general we don't have large inductive loads in most homes, but with the increased use of LED lighting, many such mains lamps used capacitive droppers which can have a power factor of only 0.5 which means it could might use twice the peak current that you might expect based on their simple wattage rating.

Power factors are taken seriously by industrial users, and most pieces of industrial equipment will have power factor correction components installed so the peak currents are tamed, and do not trigger excess current tariffs

An individual bulb may not be a significant issue but adding up all the lighting, or switch mode power supplies you may have around the house, and it could be a noticeable difference.

 

[otherclive]

Apparent power will be worse for consumers, as it basically looks at the current used rather than the kWh of energy supplied. It differs becasue when powering inductive or reactive loads, the voltage and current are not necessarily in phase with each other, and inpractice the peak currents will be more than simple VA rating might suggest.

The problem isn't going to be massive for domestic users, as in general we don't have large inductive loads in most homes, but with the increased use of LED lighting, many such mains lamps used capacitive droppers which can have a power factor of only 0.5 which means it could might use twice the peak current that you might expect based on their simple wattage rating.

Power factors are taken seriously by industrial users, and most pieces of industrial equipment will have power factor correction components installed so the peak currents are tamed, and do not trigger excess current tariffs

An individual bulb may not be a significant issue but adding up all the lighting, or switch mode power supplies you may have around the house, and it could be a noticeable difference.

Thank you Prof I do understand the difference in power measurement related to the different types of load, it was first introduced to me studying Hughes textbook “Electrical Technology’“ circa 1968-71 🧑‍🏫

That is why anything that’s likely to be bad news for consumers will be presented as something that will no doubt be “an improved customer experience “ (TIC)

 

[Raywood]

I am lost with the technical aspects, but It does seem to me that we are better sticking with our old meter rather than getting a smart one to some extent. I am not sure it would make a lot of difference as we are still on a cheap tariff at the moment but when that expires the new cost might be the problem.