Suggestion

[cris_408518]

I see something getting posted in touring,technical,chit chat etc and 4x4 being mentioned and when someone has a dig we lose the thread and valuable input or debate.

With respect to the mod, he she is one of us and I don't think the person should be involved in this sort of decision or debate!

Open debate is part of our heritage in the UK, be it in the wrong place or unpleasant manner at times.

Turning and moving unfortunate comment into neat compartments and trimmming informaive debate to where some want it is the thin edge of the wedge.

How can we stand for our chosen hobbies freedoms if we package things in to neat little box's.

Blair's Britain invades PC web forum it seems! ;-(

 

[BrianStAlbans]

The beauty of a 4x4 is that it can go anywhere but on this occasion I think your right they should stay in the Towcar section. Brian

 

[cris_408518]

So what are you trying to stop, annoying,rude or silly comment or 4x4 comment. Stick it in one place and keep moving reference to it and you will drive away new 4x4 posters and other people.

Some have labeled members here as a gang etc and then you pander to that by enforcing where you mention a touchy subject!

 

[Lol1]

You have not been on the Forum long enough to see what effect the 4x4 argument has had on the members cris. This is not the place to get low and confrontational with a liberal sprinkling of name calling. We agreed long before you started posting that the best place for the 4x4 argument was in Towcars, it does not stop the debate but limits the exposure to the rest of the forum. Your comment of "Blair's Britain invades PC web forum" has no merit here.

Moddy, you have the general consensus of the forum members here, we leave it in your capable hands.

 

[BrianStAlbans]

You have not been on the Forum long enough to see what effect the 4x4 argument has had on the members cris. This is not the place to get low and confrontational with a liberal sprinkling of name calling. We agreed long before you started posting that the best place for the 4x4 argument was in Towcars, it does not stop the debate but limits the exposure to the rest of the forum. Your comment of "Blair's Britain invades PC web forum" has no merit here.

Moddy, you have the general consensus of the forum members here, we leave it in your capable hands.

Well said

 

[cris_408518]

Well I'm sorry for what has gone on in the past. But saying that being here longer makes your point more valid seems rather shallow.

I see very few posting here, so how there is a consensus of opinion baffles me.

Again, just like Blair who considers he has clear mandate when a minority vote for him !

Do people really take silly comment to heart so much that you have to package it away where you can avoid what may ruffle a few of our feathers!

Come on, trying to set a higher ground showing that you can rise above certain level of debate is one thing.

Stamping feet and waving the measuring stick of length of time on the forum lowers any moral high ground you may have climbed to.

No doubt I'll have to crawl back into my box as per the directions of the old hands here.

Maybe we can have a hands up link to click on and ask kind permission as to what we say and post and when!

Oops sorry, was that to risque?

Looks like we'll have a list to bow to! Lord B in respect of his title, His/Her Modyship, and then the who's been here longest pecking order ;-)

Nothing personal Lord B !

 

[Damian]

I really cannot see what is wrong with keeping the 4X4 topic in one place, where those who wish to partake in that particular debate can do so.

What I do object to, is the hijacking of every other thread.

To muddy the argument by introducing Blair into the reasoning is rather silly, and not in the least bit constructive.

The guidelines for what one can post are clearly stated in the forum rules, all that is being asked for is a bit of consideration by posting subjects in relevant places.

As for cris' comment about stamping feet,,,who, apart from him is stamping their feet over this ?

All I have seen are reasonable responses, mostly in the way of agreement in keeping the 4X4 debate in one place.

 

[mcghee]

Not only are unrelated threads being hijacked by the 4x4 argument, now we're arguing about whether 4x4s should be argued about. Should we argue about whether we should argue about arguing about 4x4s?

 

[sparkes]

This is not a sensor idea in any way. Whatit is is a way to allow the discussion while not hijacking other threads.

In many forums you will see the note "message deleted off topic". You dont see that here and currently the only deleted messages are from banned members or are very abusive. LB copied a section of a thread into Towcas the other day to move a subject. That worked but the original thread was in the wrong place after an agreement made several months ago.

What is proposed is just a simple thing. Any 4x4 debates will be moved to Towcars and the original thread restored (4x4 hype that is not related to the conversation of the thread removed)

Cris, I feel the consensus is saying tat they agree, if people do not respond then they don't care or they would say so.

Steve

 

[KenWashington]

I have sympathy with the suggetsion, and I agree fully that too many thread seem to get diverted in to the 4x4 debate, But even with the length of time the argumnets have raged, we still see the ocasional new view appear on the subject.

Could I suggest another alternative, Is it ppossible for the moddy in his/her wisdom to move the thread to towcars rather than totally deleted it? That way its not cendsorship, it's managing. The views are retianed and the other threads are disinfected.

Unfortunately it's not possible to move an entire threads. I can only delete, and when the top post goes, so do all the others under it.

 

[KenWashington]

I've long wanted to confine 4x4 debate to the Towcars forum, but thought there'd be howls of "censorship" if I did so.

I am truly impartial in the 4x4 debate - I believe that people should choose their vehicle to suit their tastes and needs, whatever others think or say. We're all different.

IMHO to constantly argue over the pros and cons will not change anyone's mind or make the slightest difference to their choice of vehicle.

If forum members want to debate the 4x4 issue, then that is fine, within the bounds of forum etiquette, but from now on it should only take place in the Towcars forum.

 

[JTQ]

You certainly need to do something; you will drive away existing readers and contributors and fail to attract those new members the site desperately needs. The present situation is not debate it's an endless bludgeoning of us by a few contributors with entrenched views. The site is reduced to no more than a handful of combatants.

As a casual forum visitor interested in learning more about caravanning and willing to share my own knowledge I simply don't want to read bigoted views on very peripheral matters. Now we are even treated to biased political statements; its caravanning matters that I want to read about here.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

I see something getting posted in touring,technical,chit chat etc and 4x4 being mentioned and when someone has a dig we lose the thread and valuable input or debate.

With respect to the mod, he she is one of us and I don't think the person should be involved in this sort of decision or debate!

Open debate is part of our heritage in the UK, be it in the wrong place or unpleasant manner at times.

Turning and moving unfortunate comment into neat compartments and trimmming informaive debate to where some want it is the thin edge of the wedge.

How can we stand for our chosen hobbies freedoms if we package things in to neat little box's.

Blair's Britain invades PC web forum it seems! ;-(

cris as I said before the posts ARE NOT being hidden and I didn't know Tony Blair read this forum. I didn't realise I was hob knobbing with such illustrious company ;O)

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Well said

Hear! Hear!

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Well I'm sorry for what has gone on in the past. But saying that being here longer makes your point more valid seems rather shallow.

I see very few posting here, so how there is a consensus of opinion baffles me.

Again, just like Blair who considers he has clear mandate when a minority vote for him !

Do people really take silly comment to heart so much that you have to package it away where you can avoid what may ruffle a few of our feathers!

Come on, trying to set a higher ground showing that you can rise above certain level of debate is one thing.

Stamping feet and waving the measuring stick of length of time on the forum lowers any moral high ground you may have climbed to.

No doubt I'll have to crawl back into my box as per the directions of the old hands here.

Maybe we can have a hands up link to click on and ask kind permission as to what we say and post and when!

Oops sorry, was that to risque?

Looks like we'll have a list to bow to! Lord B in respect of his title, His/Her Modyship, and then the who's been here longest pecking order ;-)

Nothing personal Lord B !

...... didn't take it personal cris, I just hope common sense prevails mate.

 

[cris_408518]

Well well, what a surprise, the PC forum thought police strike.

Abuse in a thread is one thing but development of a thread and discussion is completely different.

May be it is a Caravanning trait, neat little box behind neat little box and all the belongings in the neat little box's where they always live in the van, with neat little matching chairs, tables and awnings and colour coded ground sheets.

Heaven forbid that something goes and gets found in the wrong box.

It must really ruin some of your hols if that happens if something you can switch off or laugh at crops up in the wrong box here ;-)

Your civil liberties get eroded more and more,fuel bills are going up along with many other things. Yet you want to box any debate where you can avoid it. If financial and other restraints that have been mentioned and prejudice from other road users get listened to no doubt you will want them boxed neatly away as well

What sort of freedom of choice is that "live and let live" providing you do it where we dictate ;-0

Even the MOD says "I wanted to confine" what sort of moderation is that exactly!

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

I've long wanted to confine 4x4 debate to the Towcars forum, but thought there'd be howls of "censorship" if I did so.

I am truly impartial in the 4x4 debate - I believe that people should choose their vehicle to suit their tastes and needs, whatever others think or say. We're all different.

IMHO to constantly argue over the pros and cons will not change anyone's mind or make the slightest difference to their choice of vehicle.

If forum members want to debate the 4x4 issue, then that is fine, within the bounds of forum etiquette, but from now on it should only take place in the Towcars forum.

Thank you Your Moddyship ⇦ touches forelock.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

You certainly need to do something; you will drive away existing readers and contributors and fail to attract those new members the site desperately needs. The present situation is not debate it's an endless bludgeoning of us by a few contributors with entrenched views. The site is reduced to no more than a handful of combatants.

As a casual forum visitor interested in learning more about caravanning and willing to share my own knowledge I simply don't want to read bigoted views on very peripheral matters. Now we are even treated to biased political statements; its caravanning matters that I want to read about here.

The political statements have been going on ever since I've been in here and somehow I dont think it will stop lolol I'm just glad I'm not Blair or Brown. In this forum they take the blame for anything and everything thats happened since 1948. heheheheh!

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

I compare it to living in a nice house that is kept tidy and clean, free from dust and germs. Surely thats preferential to living in a ghetto. It's so much better when going to the Library and looking for the book you want under the relevant section than finding someones thrown all the books into the middle of the floor and you have to sort the lot to find what you want. Where censorship comes into the equation cris I do not know. I'm sorry, I can't follow your reasoning at all :O(

 

[cris_408518]

Fine sentiment LordB.

But if you had open house so that at all and sundrie could walk in at any time your neat little place would soon not be quite to yours and her Ladyships liking. Someone would want the heat up a bit or do or say something offensive or let a child run wild.

You could remove the trouble maker, but stifle the flow if you tried to box and categorise all the visitors and what they said if you want informative debate and ideas.

This is an open house Forum. Very informative and sometimes annoying, yesterday one thread had me baffled as to why someone would post such a question. No doubt many of my posts do the same. But I like other just by-pass those!

JTQ obviously does not like political references made here. Well tough, Politics effects a great deal in Caravanning as it does most things. Politics effects the Price of fuel and Gas for your Car and Van, the price you pay on sites, the speed you travel at, the road lanes you can use, what paid holiday entitlement you get to use your van, where you can store the van and park it, and possibly extra tax for "certain" types of tow car.

As for biased political statement and bigoted views, where does that come from.

You have weak government, led by a liars. No one said anyone else would do any better.

But somebody should start for once!

Our Politicians go against public opinion and waste our money etc, but it would seem that JTQ thinks his hobby is safe and bullet proof in his political leaders hands.

HELLO , smell the roses!

When you hitch the van and head out on your route, if the route is blocked that day or a the road surface cut up. Do you not make a turn or sometimes just sit back and live with it as you have along way to go.

Sometime things go off the main thread, that doesn't stop some of the input from being valid or bringing up new or valid points. Re directing or boxing comment is covert censorship by stealth ;-0

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

cris I think you are still missing the point. Its not whether 4x4s ⇦ (whispering it) are mentioned at all, its because each time they are, no matter how innocuous, the thread gets hijacked by those who accuse the drivers as killers, polluters etc and then it gets nasty with threats and name calling. At least all the 4x4 nastiness will be confined to Tow Cars and make His Moddyships job of keeping order easier. Simple as that, theres no hidden agenda at all else the majority wouldn't agree with it ;O)

 

[cris_408518]

Brian seemed to think I was throwing me rattle and doing a K routine.

I was just demonstrating that 4 x 4 can come into any thread. If someone wants to wally around with it, just have the mod edit out any of the silly comment and let others learn from the valued content. New people joining or those that visit only frequently are likely to find threads moved and be less likely to join in.

 

[BrianStAlbans]

Cris, I don't think anyone is suggesting that using the 4x4 word in another place other than Towcars would mean it being deleted,eg Buyers guide Caravans,"What caravan...I have 4x4" or Technical "advice on 4x4 towball height" Its when an innocent post is used to restart the ongoing battle between those in both camps in the 4x4 debate.

If someone wants to post in Towcars about the "evils" of 4x4's let them and as long as the posts are not offensive they can remain to be viewed by those with an interest in the subject or avoided by those who don't.

Brian (",)

ps I hope you are going to clear up you're toys before you go to bed ? ;-)

 

[colin(bridgend)]

Lord B. you made a posting yesterday regarding Steve having a shining halo. In this instance I must correct you - it was infact a rim of a wheel off his 4 x 4 which he had recently polished.

 

[jacky3]

AGREE