Yep! Just got back from the Land Rover Show at Billing - great weather (apart from an amazing storm on the Saturday!)
Terrano v Discovery
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Hi David!
Just enjoyed a week "anoraking" at the land rover show at Billing! - great fun!!.
Amazing storm on the Saturday brought a tree down on a 110 and rolled a static caravan on the site. We lost a gazebo and so were very lucky.
Problem with Carolannes points is that they are simply not true.
Re armed forces - LR are used by the Aussies, the Americans (there special forces in the main as they liked the "Pink Panther" UK Special Forces ones), the Turks make Land Rovers under licence at their Ottakar works and they make some amazing armoured versions as well.
I could go on but the list gets boring - Santana Land Rovers from Spain - military versions and civvie as well as the Belgium Minerva versions as well.
As Steve said earlier - funny how a vehicle with so many problems can sell SOOOOOO Damn well!!
If I was a vulgar man I would suggest that as God was good enough to give me an a*sehole when I was born, I really do not need another one, so it is fortuitous that the lady has gone on holiday.
Just enjoyed a week "anoraking" at the land rover show at Billing! - great fun!!.
Amazing storm on the Saturday brought a tree down on a 110 and rolled a static caravan on the site. We lost a gazebo and so were very lucky.
Problem with Carolannes points is that they are simply not true.
Re armed forces - LR are used by the Aussies, the Americans (there special forces in the main as they liked the "Pink Panther" UK Special Forces ones), the Turks make Land Rovers under licence at their Ottakar works and they make some amazing armoured versions as well.
I could go on but the list gets boring - Santana Land Rovers from Spain - military versions and civvie as well as the Belgium Minerva versions as well.
As Steve said earlier - funny how a vehicle with so many problems can sell SOOOOOO Damn well!!
If I was a vulgar man I would suggest that as God was good enough to give me an a*sehole when I was born, I really do not need another one, so it is fortuitous that the lady has gone on holiday.
I expected more from you Clive, has our Northampton air had a soporific effect on you and left you chilled and at one with the world ;-)
CAROLANNE....In an hour or so I will drive with caravan and my husband to Dover on route to Biaritz. I can drive in confidence that we will get there as our car will be trouble free something we could never do for over ten years of Land Rover ownership.
Wayne some good reports on Whatcar do not cancel out all the problems nor do the "I've had it for a month and it's great".
General acceptance in the press is that the Audi is more refined build than LR. Search for LR reliabilty and tell us that the many posts are hype and that buying Land Rover is a better than evens bet! You can't do it!
Husbands family farm in Rural Northamptonshire and some of my relatives in Devon and Cornwall I'm not sure what the rural thing has to do with reliability.
As you mention the Army Chelsea, we also have officer relatives there. Land Rover products with near endless care and attention and budgets to keep the things running and officers able to have staff attend to there personal Landrovers on a near FOC basis to keep them reliable! Slightly different to the average business or man in the streets resources.
Army and MOD puchase of Land Rover has more to do with UK politics than Land Rovers reliablity and driveability. It has also been said recently that Land Rovers will be changed for Mercedes in a bid for uniformity with combined armed forces. I just can't understand why all the other armies and forces didn't buy Land Rover in the first place.
No doubt people will buy new pretty fashionable models, but unless reliabilty problems are addressed and solved the brand will fail and many buyers will again be robbed of their money. If Land Pover had been of the quality is made out to be the likes af Toyota and others would never have made a dent in the market.
It is still funny that you find no answer for BMW selling such a great product and Ford threatening to solve problems by building outside the UK.
Bye bye and have a great safe summer with any car or van of your choice.
im not going on about rural location meaning reliable, what im stating is that we are in Devon, ie - countryside, ie farmers and therefore the county is swarmed with landrovers ie - POPULAR AND PEOPLE KEEP BUYING THEM.
SO landrover must be doing something right!
thanks Wendy. Clive and others for your support on the above, I was beginning to think I was on me own here!
Phew!
Phew!
Very much so Martyn - really enjoyed myself - funny thing is, it is the relatively poor shower blocks, loos etc at the Billing Aquadrome site that made me get a caravan. The ability to have your own "John" and a shower when you want is just bliss after camping.
It was a great week with loads of like minded people having a good time.
Chelsea - keep up the good work! I do prefer LR's to any other vehicle because they are just so damn good for what I want to do. But unlike that regular "my mate had one but the wheels/bodywork/roof/engine/gearbox/propshafts/transfer box/doors fell off" - I can honestly say I have never had that problem.
If they really were that bad - how come sales are significantly up year on year?
Ford has quoted LR as a significant profit centre within its PAG.
Sadly for Jaguar, it was their factory that came under the Ford "hammer" - not Lode Lane. Why? - because Ford could see that the LR product was a more valuable item within the PAG mix.
Whilst I agree that quality has been an issue in the past but when you look at the lack of resources in those times - is it any wonder?
No other car puts a grin on my face as does a LR - be it a Series vehicle or a RR Sport.
Put me in a bland euro/jap box and it leaves me cold - and I am not talking about the a/c.
It was a great week with loads of like minded people having a good time.
Chelsea - keep up the good work! I do prefer LR's to any other vehicle because they are just so damn good for what I want to do. But unlike that regular "my mate had one but the wheels/bodywork/roof/engine/gearbox/propshafts/transfer box/doors fell off" - I can honestly say I have never had that problem.
If they really were that bad - how come sales are significantly up year on year?
Ford has quoted LR as a significant profit centre within its PAG.
Sadly for Jaguar, it was their factory that came under the Ford "hammer" - not Lode Lane. Why? - because Ford could see that the LR product was a more valuable item within the PAG mix.
Whilst I agree that quality has been an issue in the past but when you look at the lack of resources in those times - is it any wonder?
No other car puts a grin on my face as does a LR - be it a Series vehicle or a RR Sport.
Put me in a bland euro/jap box and it leaves me cold - and I am not talking about the a/c.
I've never owned an XJS, MG or many other well known problem cars that does not mean that I have no close experience of them.
At least the lady had owned more than one and her comments are only on a par with many of my first hand experiences.
I feel your replies rude to somebody making first hand comment haveing suffered her husbands obsession.
My friends in Spain have a Santana Landrover that is quite old and reliable and used for a water sports business. It is nothing like a UK Landrover and had different build features and a " more reliable " engine. Friends in the forces spent time in Oz and found the same there with Land Rovers somewhat "tweaked" from the satndard British build.
As a caravanner I'm looking for capability and reliability when heading on holiday. I guess questions here relate to those facts as well.
I drive a Disco 3 at work and it is a lovely car, I've called in re my next shift and it is still at the dealers. One of my upposite numbers was on hand when it was collected and helped the dealers guy load it. Discussing how it was such a shame and how Disco 3 are lovely cars, the 25 years of Land Rover Service man replied - Yeah if your lucky enough to get a good one!
Sorry but luck shouldn't come into it, I've never owned a Land Rover but have driven plenty at work. Second hand one are often money pits despite the cheap parts.
A grin on my face is swiftly wiped out by a vehicle reliabilty problem no matter how good it is to drive, the lady only repeated experiences that far to many have had.
At least the lady had owned more than one and her comments are only on a par with many of my first hand experiences.
I feel your replies rude to somebody making first hand comment haveing suffered her husbands obsession.
My friends in Spain have a Santana Landrover that is quite old and reliable and used for a water sports business. It is nothing like a UK Landrover and had different build features and a " more reliable " engine. Friends in the forces spent time in Oz and found the same there with Land Rovers somewhat "tweaked" from the satndard British build.
As a caravanner I'm looking for capability and reliability when heading on holiday. I guess questions here relate to those facts as well.
I drive a Disco 3 at work and it is a lovely car, I've called in re my next shift and it is still at the dealers. One of my upposite numbers was on hand when it was collected and helped the dealers guy load it. Discussing how it was such a shame and how Disco 3 are lovely cars, the 25 years of Land Rover Service man replied - Yeah if your lucky enough to get a good one!
Sorry but luck shouldn't come into it, I've never owned a Land Rover but have driven plenty at work. Second hand one are often money pits despite the cheap parts.
A grin on my face is swiftly wiped out by a vehicle reliabilty problem no matter how good it is to drive, the lady only repeated experiences that far to many have had.
she initially posted that landrover owners were deluded and boring, is this not rude either?
I also have 1st hand experience with landrovers, and we have never had a problem so surely my experiences count just as much as someone who has had bucket loads of problems.
As I stated before, everyone is entitled to their opinion, good or bad, so for those who have had problems with landrovers, please allow people who have not, to voice their opinions also.
I also have 1st hand experience with landrovers, and we have never had a problem so surely my experiences count just as much as someone who has had bucket loads of problems.
As I stated before, everyone is entitled to their opinion, good or bad, so for those who have had problems with landrovers, please allow people who have not, to voice their opinions also.
Sorry PC but your comment about being rude is poited at the wrong person
Carolanne (probably Kanga as the comments are well targeted) has posted many rude comments
Examples
group of deluded bores
I bet your Mr Clive is another deluded LR bore
LR drivers are maily deluded
beloved LR a release for his sad working life
Odd for a new memwber to come along and targer others.
I'm neither deluded or have a sad working life, I own a Discovery with 80k on the clock and it does what I want it to do. Yes it does go into the garage a couple of times a year, but MOT and service are normal across every make.
Carolanne (probably Kanga as the comments are well targeted) has posted many rude comments
Examples
group of deluded bores
I bet your Mr Clive is another deluded LR bore
LR drivers are maily deluded
beloved LR a release for his sad working life
Odd for a new memwber to come along and targer others.
I'm neither deluded or have a sad working life, I own a Discovery with 80k on the clock and it does what I want it to do. Yes it does go into the garage a couple of times a year, but MOT and service are normal across every make.
me also thinks carolanne is someone else in disguise!Sorry PC but your comment about being rude is poited at the wrong person
Carolanne (probably Kanga as the comments are well targeted) has posted many rude comments
Examples
group of deluded bores
I bet your Mr Clive is another deluded LR bore
LR drivers are maily deluded
beloved LR a release for his sad working life
Odd for a new memwber to come along and targer others.
I'm neither deluded or have a sad working life, I own a Discovery with 80k on the clock and it does what I want it to do. Yes it does go into the garage a couple of times a year, but MOT and service are normal across every make.
We've just had a long fast ride home, all though a little jaded I read it that the lady was having a pop at her other half and the Clive comment is questioning not directly pointed at somebody.
May be it's Jen and I but we have experienced some of the owners group fanatics at bike rallies.
I've had Hondas and Suzukis for just over twenty years and have thrashed them around UK and Europe in the main and done well over a Million bike miles with never one break down or problem apart fromn an odd bulb change or puncture. Yet at some rallies old bikers will tell you how you still can't beat an old Triumph or Norton.
I guess I mix with different people to here and found the ladies points quite valid and have met a few owners who would provoke such sentiment from their spouses.
Land Rover management over many years have talked of the poor reliability of their products so whats wrong with someone here mentioning their experience.
May be it's Jen and I but we have experienced some of the owners group fanatics at bike rallies.
I've had Hondas and Suzukis for just over twenty years and have thrashed them around UK and Europe in the main and done well over a Million bike miles with never one break down or problem apart fromn an odd bulb change or puncture. Yet at some rallies old bikers will tell you how you still can't beat an old Triumph or Norton.
I guess I mix with different people to here and found the ladies points quite valid and have met a few owners who would provoke such sentiment from their spouses.
Land Rover management over many years have talked of the poor reliability of their products so whats wrong with someone here mentioning their experience.
Dave/Kanga seemed to know a bit about bikes too as I remember.P C
You have not come across CRIS on your travels have you?
Strange how great minds think alike.......P C
You have not come across CRIS on your travels have you?
I think it strange that some try SO HARD to knock LR as a product.
I think we all recognise that in many ways the simplicity of a 10 year old LR is due to the construction methods at that time having more in common with a couple of decades before.
And yes there were certainly quality issues.
But comparing LR to Toyota/Mitsubishi/Isuzu etc is hardly relevant - the reason being the Discovery (recognised as the model that saved LR from going under) was a "parts bin masterpiece" developed here in the UK with a budget less than a months Canteen costs at Toyota.
Thankfully such quality issues are to be a thing of the past with the incredibly positive input from Ford and the superb synergy derived from being within the PAG.
As for the BMW "period" - that was working but it would never have been so good as what LR have now - just look at the other members of the PAG. And lets not forget that BMW really took issue with that lying toe-rag "Bozzo" Byers who said one thing to the bosses at BMW and then promptly denied it. But what can you expect from a politician.
From a personal viewpoint, I have a friend who has an early Vectra that became a money pit - did you know that the engine has to come out to change the clutch!
I think we all recognise that in many ways the simplicity of a 10 year old LR is due to the construction methods at that time having more in common with a couple of decades before.
And yes there were certainly quality issues.
But comparing LR to Toyota/Mitsubishi/Isuzu etc is hardly relevant - the reason being the Discovery (recognised as the model that saved LR from going under) was a "parts bin masterpiece" developed here in the UK with a budget less than a months Canteen costs at Toyota.
Thankfully such quality issues are to be a thing of the past with the incredibly positive input from Ford and the superb synergy derived from being within the PAG.
As for the BMW "period" - that was working but it would never have been so good as what LR have now - just look at the other members of the PAG. And lets not forget that BMW really took issue with that lying toe-rag "Bozzo" Byers who said one thing to the bosses at BMW and then promptly denied it. But what can you expect from a politician.
From a personal viewpoint, I have a friend who has an early Vectra that became a money pit - did you know that the engine has to come out to change the clutch!
Landrovers can be unreliable, but so can Fords, Hondas, Toyotas, BMWs, Nissans, etc. In fact wherever you find a high concentration of same make cars, reliability will will be a concern because of the vast numbers involved and we all know bad news travels faster. So basically all cars could be labled as unreliable, with the possible exception of the Sorento, where the only breakdown is where the owner looses his/her heart after having to park it up for the night.
What?
What?
Sorry people, but I spent ten years as a hated Bike Courier and still moonlight as one at times. It makes you quite thick skin'd and of course as a caravannner I take stick from my bike mates.
I never realised that you could only express praise for a product
here. I'll remember in future.
Triumphs and Nortons are mmmm yummy dream machines, in case any of you are "old" bikers.
I never realised that you could only express praise for a product
here. I'll remember in future.
Triumphs and Nortons are mmmm yummy dream machines, in case any of you are "old" bikers.
PC, tell your biker mates that they would be amazed how many caravanners are bikers or ex bikers, there are lots on this forum alone and I count myself as one.
There must be a connection, something to do with the outdoors as I did a lot of camping with my bikes.
I've often been tempted to go on to one of the bike forums and point out the connection and stand back and await the onslaught
There must be a connection, something to do with the outdoors as I did a lot of camping with my bikes.
I've often been tempted to go on to one of the bike forums and point out the connection and stand back and await the onslaught
MOD surplus commando sleeping bag beside the bike on deserted roads or huddled between a service sation wall and the bike does not compare to SOFT caravanning according to my mates who chased around Europe for Film and Media companies with me.
Mortgage followed closely by kids brought in the Caravanning and finished off Windsurfers that have been replaced by Surf Kites now.
We get the chance to buy our works cars so if the new Disco's problems get sorted I've put my name first on the list, so my bikers mates will trot out all the yuppie Chelsea tractor lines then but a Disco would haul new boards so the kids can learn to windsurf next year.
Mortgage followed closely by kids brought in the Caravanning and finished off Windsurfers that have been replaced by Surf Kites now.
We get the chance to buy our works cars so if the new Disco's problems get sorted I've put my name first on the list, so my bikers mates will trot out all the yuppie Chelsea tractor lines then but a Disco would haul new boards so the kids can learn to windsurf next year.
PC - you are way off mark here - nobody has ever said LR's are faultless - if you read some of my posts you will see I have criticised them heavily for not being able to make a decent gearbox!
And as for the Lucas electrics! - best not to start me on that!
The point I am (and I think others are) making is that the doom and gloom predictions as to LR ownership by those who "use one for work" or "had one in the past" or "my mother had one and the wheels fell off" or "I have read an Honest John report" just are not born out by the experience we have had as owners of said vehicles.
I have seen a posting by one guy on here quoting all the negatives re LR's taken straight from Honest Johns website.
Trouble is this guy drove a Vectra which is actually slated to a far higher degree than any LR product by dear old Honest John. He went a bit quiet after that!
My point is that why is it that in marked contrast to those that use and own LR's - a very small section of the population that do not go out of their way to knock them?
As for you comment:-
"I never realised that you could only express praise for a product here. I'll remember in future."
I think if you look all we are saying is that WE do not/have not experienced the doom and gloom you predict.
What you are doing is effectively saying to people "Do not buy a modern Triumph motorcycle because the ones built in the past were unreliable".
I think you would agree that this would be silly. In contrast to Triumph motorcycles that now have nothing to do with the original, Ford is at last investing in LR to give them the products that people expect.
The new Freelander will be a great success. The upgraded Defender with its Ford engine and gearbox (whoopee!) should be a utility truck that gets LR back into world markets.
I didn't realise that supporting a particular brand because it suits you was a crime in some peoples eyes!!!!
And as for the Lucas electrics! - best not to start me on that!
The point I am (and I think others are) making is that the doom and gloom predictions as to LR ownership by those who "use one for work" or "had one in the past" or "my mother had one and the wheels fell off" or "I have read an Honest John report" just are not born out by the experience we have had as owners of said vehicles.
I have seen a posting by one guy on here quoting all the negatives re LR's taken straight from Honest Johns website.
Trouble is this guy drove a Vectra which is actually slated to a far higher degree than any LR product by dear old Honest John. He went a bit quiet after that!
My point is that why is it that in marked contrast to those that use and own LR's - a very small section of the population that do not go out of their way to knock them?
As for you comment:-
"I never realised that you could only express praise for a product here. I'll remember in future."
I think if you look all we are saying is that WE do not/have not experienced the doom and gloom you predict.
What you are doing is effectively saying to people "Do not buy a modern Triumph motorcycle because the ones built in the past were unreliable".
I think you would agree that this would be silly. In contrast to Triumph motorcycles that now have nothing to do with the original, Ford is at last investing in LR to give them the products that people expect.
The new Freelander will be a great success. The upgraded Defender with its Ford engine and gearbox (whoopee!) should be a utility truck that gets LR back into world markets.
I didn't realise that supporting a particular brand because it suits you was a crime in some peoples eyes!!!!
Well I wouldn't buy a Vauxhall as I don't like their designs.
Triumph of new is a little different to Land Rover built by the same work force from the same factories.
My Dad had four Vauxhall three of them had a serious chain of problems, I don't see that makes a comment I make on Vauxhalls not Valid.
When studying and working as a courier my boss bought a year or so old Range Rover with his new wealth, partly for his own pleasure and partly as a work tool for towing bike trailers. His pride and joy was a joke quite frankly and that was years ago. He still runs a large London based business and is still in love with Range Rovers, he has some other nice cars now but has never had a Reliable Range Rover even though the last four he has had were new, the last in November last year.
Surfing friends have had Disco's and Range Rovers and the off road capabilities as we know at work are very good. A little older now married and settled friends are now in stable jobs and one has a year old Disco 3 that has been far from reliable, another friend has one of the last TD5 that has had Transmission, Engine and Electrical problems he has a young family and having had a major repair done just before the end of the guarantee period he had a
Triumph of new is a little different to Land Rover built by the same work force from the same factories.
My Dad had four Vauxhall three of them had a serious chain of problems, I don't see that makes a comment I make on Vauxhalls not Valid.
When studying and working as a courier my boss bought a year or so old Range Rover with his new wealth, partly for his own pleasure and partly as a work tool for towing bike trailers. His pride and joy was a joke quite frankly and that was years ago. He still runs a large London based business and is still in love with Range Rovers, he has some other nice cars now but has never had a Reliable Range Rover even though the last four he has had were new, the last in November last year.
Surfing friends have had Disco's and Range Rovers and the off road capabilities as we know at work are very good. A little older now married and settled friends are now in stable jobs and one has a year old Disco 3 that has been far from reliable, another friend has one of the last TD5 that has had Transmission, Engine and Electrical problems he has a young family and having had a major repair done just before the end of the guarantee period he had a
Well I wouldn't buy a Vauxhall as I don't like their designs.
Triumph of new is a little different to Land Rover built by the same work force from the same factories.
My Dad had four Vauxhall three of them had a serious chain of problems, I don't see that makes a comment I make on Vauxhalls not Valid.
When studying and working as a courier my boss bought a year or so old Range Rover with his new wealth, partly for his own pleasure and partly as a work tool for towing bike trailers. His pride and joy was a joke quite frankly and that was years ago. He still runs a large London based business and is still in love with Range Rovers, he has some other nice cars now but has never had a Reliable Range Rover even though the last four he has had were new, the last in November last year.
Surfing friends have had Disco's and Range Rovers and the off road capabilities as we know at work are very good. A little older now married and settled friends are now in stable jobs and one has a year old Disco 3 that has been far from reliable, another friend has one of the last TD5 that has had Transmission, Engine and Electrical problems he has a young family and having had a major repair done just before the end of the guarantee period he had a
More of the same - sadly
I am not sure what you are trying to achieve PC but simply repeating the same old diatribe of how many people you know that knew someone who had a brother who had a LR with a problem hardly cuts any ice with those of us that have run them for years and appreciate the lack of cost and ease of maintenance WE HAVE PERSONALLY experienced.
As for my saying your comments are rude/invalid - you can be as rude as you like - it won't bother me. As for the validity of your comments I would feel more inclined to believe them if they were not hearsay.
As I say - those of us that use them (and most of use them so hard that any other vehicle would be trashed in short order) find them to be eminently "fit for purpose" to use that over used phrase.
So you tell me - what am I supposed to think when someone who doesn't own one tells me that from his "experience" (or his "friends" or whatever!) they are unreliable whereas my decades of use of LR and many other cars tells me that they are no more unreliable than any other and far more capable than anything else?
I am not sure what you are trying to achieve PC but simply repeating the same old diatribe of how many people you know that knew someone who had a brother who had a LR with a problem hardly cuts any ice with those of us that have run them for years and appreciate the lack of cost and ease of maintenance WE HAVE PERSONALLY experienced.
As for my saying your comments are rude/invalid - you can be as rude as you like - it won't bother me. As for the validity of your comments I would feel more inclined to believe them if they were not hearsay.
As I say - those of us that use them (and most of use them so hard that any other vehicle would be trashed in short order) find them to be eminently "fit for purpose" to use that over used phrase.
So you tell me - what am I supposed to think when someone who doesn't own one tells me that from his "experience" (or his "friends" or whatever!) they are unreliable whereas my decades of use of LR and many other cars tells me that they are no more unreliable than any other and far more capable than anything else?
In reply to PCs' comment regarding dealership.
He obviously is not familiar with the dealership in Norwich.
We have bought our last three Discos from them and have had impeccable service. Nothing is too much trouble.
BTW when you send your vehicle to be serviced etc. you receive a card from LR itself asking for your feedback on their dealers, and service received. Obviously, if people can't be bothered to fill the questionaire in, then any problems cannot be addressed.
Having just bought a new Disco 3, we had no hesitation in taking it on two weeks holiday the very next day after purchase. We did 2500 miles and it didn't hiccup, but then why should it!!!
He obviously is not familiar with the dealership in Norwich.
We have bought our last three Discos from them and have had impeccable service. Nothing is too much trouble.
BTW when you send your vehicle to be serviced etc. you receive a card from LR itself asking for your feedback on their dealers, and service received. Obviously, if people can't be bothered to fill the questionaire in, then any problems cannot be addressed.
Having just bought a new Disco 3, we had no hesitation in taking it on two weeks holiday the very next day after purchase. We did 2500 miles and it didn't hiccup, but then why should it!!!
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