The end is nigh! Death of the IC power.

[otherclive]

Prof
"Who is the JC in the context of this thread?"

Jeremy Corbyn and his enthusiasm for renationalising areas of the economy.

 

[Parksy]

There are local government proposals to redevelop the area where I live based on a garden city plan
Amongst other things such as better railway access and a metro tram extension to cover our area, housing will be fitted with solar panels and electric vehicle charging points.
We already have solar panels at home which significantly reduce electricity costs.
Maybe the cheap solar energy coupled with domestic wind turbines would make EVs virtually cost free to run?

 

[Martin24]

Come on Hutch, It would have been a great wheeze on the way back from the pub IF we'd of had the opportunity when we were younger. I've already told the girls what fun it'll be.

 

[KeefySher]

When I was a kid back in the 60's my parents bought a house on a new estate (modern parlais is a development) that all houses had driveways, some had garages, low brick walls across the front gardens and matching wooden gates painted in different colours. 2 particular roads, Sutherland & Highlands Way were quite long. So we used to mix and match gates on the way home from school. Until we were caught swapping a teachers gates

 

[KeefySher]

There are local government proposals to redevelop the area where I live based on a garden city plan
Amongst other things such as better railway access and a metro tram extension to cover our area, housing will be fitted with solar panels and electric vehicle charging points.
We already have solar panels at home which significantly reduce electricity costs.
Maybe the cheap solar energy coupled with domestic wind turbines would make EVs virtually cost free to run?

Only during the daylight hours, provided you are generating more than you use. But as most EV cars will have been used for the commute they wouldn't be at home.

Local area wind turbines are an effective way forward, provided nimbys don't block them.

A solar panel set up of 4Kw as opposed to the 2.7Kw usually put on housing by local authorities will generate sufficient electricity to run a house in concert with the usage change to make it effective. If refurbishing housing stock replacing white goods and ovens/hobs with A+++ rated appliances and LED lights will deliver considerable benefits. The biggest user of energy in a home is the washing machine, followed by a dishwasher. Only run them whilst generating and not at the same time realises the benefits. It's the mindset change required to not fill the dishwasher after dinner and not switch it on till the following daytime, then the washing machine. But it pays dividends. Our solar panels generate 3 times more electricity than we use. Probably a better investment than a pension fund currently.

The main issue with EV is the grid capacity. The electrification of more railways, more trains, HS2, trams, onshoring manufacturing, EV charging etc al has to be accounted for. Sadly our political idiots haven't figured that bit, the additional capacity required, as yet. Base load can be easily met, it's the mid winters severe storm that is the issue and the massive uplift in peak load requiring capability that is the crux. Solar can't be switched on in the middle of the night. Wind cannot be switched on in Scotland, and has to be switched off in high winds. Deep water offshore wind is capable, when the infrastructure is there, but that is still a way off.

Other difficult decisions like replacing poorly insulated and energy wasting housing stock with new energy neutral using things like local area ground source heating networks, small nuclear generation are probably beyond the wit of the populous currently. It needs open and frank debate. Too many vested interests at present, particularly developers who are solely focussed on short term returns.That is the problem with having an economy based on the price of houses, primarily in the South East, instead of goods and services saleable at scale across the globe.

 

[Dustydog]

36 years ago went to thos place whilst touring near Devils Bridge Wales.
http://www.cat.org.uk/index.html
And only now we seem to be adopting some of their ideas :woohoo:

 

[Dustydog]

36 years ago went to this place whilst touring near Devils Bridge Wales.
http://www.cat.org.uk/index.html
And only now we seem to be adopting some of their ideas :woohoo:

 

[DrZhivago]

Local area wind turbines are an effective way forward, provided nimbys don't block them.

Put me down as a NIMBY if you want, but in fact I don't like wind turbines in anyone's back yard. Wind turbines are eyesores of the first order, all the worse as they are moving, and movement in ones field of vision is an instinctive attention grabber. Added to which the low power density (which the Greenies see as an advantage) means that far larger land areas need to be covered by them to be equivalent to a compact conventional power station.

The late 1930s through to the 1950s (war years excluded obviously) saw the rise of the modern concept of town and country planning. Part of this was the identification of residential areas, industrial areas and country areas (green belt). This was good in stopping uncontolled sprawl such as ribbon development and people finding a factory or power station being built at the end of their garden. Unfortunately this concept is now being rapidly undermined, not least, ironically, by the green movement who advocate decentralisation as a principle and seem also to want to shove things like wind turbines in peoples faces by putting them in the most prominent picturesque locations like a two-finger salute, and almost like a monument to their abstract gods. As caravanners I would hope that, unlike the semi-permanent urban basement dwellers that many in our society have become, we would have a greater appreciation of the beauty of the British outdoors (what is left of it) ond not wish to see it industrialised further.

Wind turbines, if any, should be in industrial areas. In my area for example, there is a lot of already ugly, waste, or semi-industrialised space by the Bristol Channel in the Avonmouth-Severn Beach area and on the Caldicot Levels. But is seems easier administratively to put a wind turbine on a green site than in the grounds of a steelworks; that is wrong.

As for local area, most people in Britain do not appreciate our asset of a National Grid, which means that in principle you can place power generation anywhere and consume it anywhere else. It does not need to be local as it does in many other countries.

 

[KeefySher]

Local area wind turbines are an effective way forward, provided nimbys don't block them.

Put me down as a NIMBY if you want, but in fact I don't like wind turbines in anyone's back yard. Wind turbines are eyesores of the first order, all the worse as they are moving, and movement in ones field of vision is an instinctive attention grabber. Added to which the low power density (which the Greenies see as an advantage) means that far larger land areas need to be covered by them to be equivalent to a compact conventional power station.

The late 1930s through to the 1950s (war years excluded obviously) saw the rise of the modern concept of town and country planning. Part of this was the identification of residential areas, industrial areas and country areas (green belt). This was good in stopping uncontolled sprawl such as ribbon development and people finding a factory or power station being built at the end of their garden. Unfortunately this concept is now being rapidly undermined, not least, ironically, by the green movement who advocate decentralisation as a principle and seem also to want to shove things like wind turbines in peoples faces by putting them in the most prominent picturesque locations like a two-finger salute, and almost like a monument to their abstract gods. As caravanners I would hope that, unlike the semi-permanent urban basement dwellers that many in our society have become, we would have a greater appreciation of the beauty of the British outdoors (what is left of it) ond not wish to see it industrialised further.

Wind turbines, if any, should be in industrial areas. In my area for example, there is a lot of already ugly, waste, or semi-industrialised space by the Bristol Channel in the Avonmouth-Severn Beach area and on the Caldicot Levels. But is seems easier administratively to put a wind turbine on a green site than in the grounds of a steelworks; that is wrong.

As for local area, most people in Britain do not appreciate our asset of a National Grid, which means that in principle you can place power generation anywhere and consume it anywhere else. It does not need to be local as it does in many other countries.

What a myopic viewpoint. Are you interpreting local area wind turbines as the windmill type at scale? Housing density from the halcyon days of yore in compare to today are a result of population expansion. The requirements for energy use, not just generation, but reduction, require different solutions to when the grid was seen to be the way to go. Energy security is probably our current greatest challenge.

Maybe nimbyism goes hand in glove with nih, and it's not like that here, and we've always done it this way. Times they are a changing'.

 

[Raywood]

All this guff about electric powered cars might be alright for the chosen few in the Home counties, but I can just see my cousin in the area that he lives in trying to charge his Leccy car up, every buggar in the street would be hot wiring off his supply,

To charge the car you need to program in the cars details in a coded format. This should prevent anyone using his charging point as it will not work without it.

 

[bertieboy1]

We're all doomed !

 

[Gafferbill]

We're all doomed !

Have you just realised?........I am confident that has always been the case

 

[Anseo]

We're all doomed !

Have you just realised?........I am confident that has always been the case

:lol:

 

[Martin24]

There are local government proposals to redevelop the area where I live based on a garden city plan
Amongst other things such as better railway access and a metro tram extension to cover our area, housing will be fitted with solar panels and electric vehicle charging points.
We already have solar panels at home which significantly reduce electricity costs.
Maybe the cheap solar energy coupled with domestic wind turbines would make EVs virtually cost free to run?

Only during the daylight hours, provided you are generating more than you use. But as most EV cars will have been used for the commute they wouldn't be at home.

Local area wind turbines are an effective way forward, provided nimbys don't block them.

A solar panel set up of 4Kw as opposed to the 2.7Kw usually put on housing by local authorities will generate sufficient electricity to run a house in concert with the usage change to make it effective. If refurbishing housing stock replacing white goods and ovens/hobs with A+++ rated appliances and LED lights will deliver considerable benefits. The biggest user of energy in a home is the washing machine, followed by a dishwasher. Only run them whilst generating and not at the same time realises the benefits. It's the mindset change required to not fill the dishwasher after dinner and not switch it on till the following daytime, then the washing machine. But it pays dividends. Our solar panels generate 3 times more electricity than we use. Probably a better investment than a pension fund currently.

The main issue with EV is the grid capacity. The electrification of more railways, more trains, HS2, trams, onshoring manufacturing, EV charging etc al has to be accounted for. Sadly our political idiots haven't figured that bit, the additional capacity required, as yet. Base load can be easily met, it's the mid winters severe storm that is the issue and the massive uplift in peak load requiring capability that is the crux. Solar can't be switched on in the middle of the night. Wind cannot be switched on in Scotland, and has to be switched off in high winds. Deep water offshore wind is capable, when the infrastructure is there, but that is still a way off.

Other difficult decisions like replacing poorly insulated and energy wasting housing stock with new energy neutral using things like local area ground source heating networks, small nuclear generation are probably beyond the wit of the populous currently. It needs open and frank debate. Too many vested interests at present, particularly developers who are solely focussed on short term returns.That is the problem with having an economy based on the price of houses, primarily in the South East, instead of goods and services saleable at scale across the globe.

Here's a NIMBY. I would rather be close to a nuclear power station than I would those awful wind turbines. Nothing more than a horrid blot on the landscape.

 

[Anseo]

Many years spent working in nuclear power stations, and I have to say, the further I am away from them the better.

 

[KeefySher]

Here's a NIMBY. I would rather be close to a nuclear power station than I would those awful wind turbines. Nothing more than a horrid blot on the landscape[/color].

Many years spent working in nuclear power stations, and I have to say, the further I am away from them the better.

They are only a glorified electric kettle

I live 7 miles from a nuclear source capable of ending the world, it's been there since the mid 50's. Most people around the area don't even know it's there

Again, are you thinking the big twirly tall thingies?

 

[ProfJohnL]

36 years ago went to this place whilst touring near Devils Bridge Wales.
http://www.cat.org.uk/index.html
And only now we seem to be adopting some of their ideas :woohoo:

I too went must be about 36 years ago, but went back about 20 years ago. Need to go again as I'm sure there will be examples of more new thinking.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I recently spent a holiday in Cornwall, and looking out across the greenery, in the distance (I'd guess 3 miles away) were a number of wind turbines. Yes they were moving, and I had a rather pleasant feeling when I thought about the power they were generating from the wind. - I was going to say with no pollution, but there are those who will tell of the noise they produce. Not having been close enough to witness it I can't comment specifically, but I think back to the 1700's ( no I'm not that old), when we had windmills, and water mills, littering the countryside, later the noise of steam engines, and trains on jointed tracks, and now the noise of motorways and other heavily used roads whose line source noise pervades the country side for miles around. Aircraft, and boy racers in their lowered suspension fiat 500s and baseball hat turned the wrong way round so they can hear the the bass from their ICE which uses more power than the car needs to actually move. Not to mention the pylons majestically striding carrying across the country side, carrying the power we all use.

And someone is complaining about wind turbines and solar farms?????

If they are so set against such systems perhaps they should opt out of buying and using the power they produce.

 

[Dustydog]

36 years ago went to this place whilst touring near Devils Bridge Wales.
http://www.cat.org.uk/index.html
And only now we seem to be adopting some of their ideas :woohoo:

I too went must be about 36 years ago, but went back about 20 years ago. Need to go again as I'm sure there will be examples of more new thinking.

Triple glazing , own methane gas generator and straw based toilets I recall.
And so the wheel keeps getting reinvented

 

[otherclive]

36 years ago went to this place whilst touring near Devils Bridge Wales.
http://www.cat.org.uk/index.html
And only now we seem to be adopting some of their ideas :woohoo:

I too went must be about 36 years ago, but went back about 20 years ago. Need to go again as I'm sure there will be examples of more new thinking.

Triple glazing , own methane gas generator and straw based toilets I recall.
And so the wheel keeps getting reinvented

Bit of a "Spartacus" moment here as I too went to the community near to Machynlleth around that same timescale to participate in a gardening course. At that time I was an avid follower of John Seymours ideas for self sufficiency. It's now called the Centre fo Alternative Technology. I don't think it's a case of the wheel being invented but one of where their forward looking views are now becoming accepted. So perhaps their name may have to change from "Alternative" as their approach becomes more commonplace. It's well worth a visit and the surrounding area is idyllic.

 

[Mogwyth]

We used to be regular visitors to CAT and over the years its direction has changed,It now seems more of a tourism/education centre rather than the hub of innovation it once was.

 

[ProfJohnL]

We used to be regular visitors to CAT and over the years its direction has changed,It now seems more of a tourism/education centre rather than the hub of innovation it once was.

The impression I got was originally they set out to be a research centre, putting ideas in to practice to evaluate their effectiveness. I seem to recall there strong links with at least one university, may be more.

As the public's awareness of alternative technologies, has expanded, partly because of places like CAT, visitor numbers have grown. I know form work I have done, its not too bad interrupting some research to showing the odd person what you are doing, but we it comes to thousands, you need to be able to mange the visitors, in a way that does not prevent the actual work from taking place. I suspect over more recent years the visitor sites have been planned more for display rather than formal research.

I believe the CAT has been involved with a number of outreach projects which are not open to the public.

 

[HomerS1]

The chances of this government meeting this particular target is remote at best. They have failed on every single target they have set, and with the lovely Michael Gove as this policy's champion, it has no chance. Even if it did go ahead there will be no Police left to enforce it. As far as I can tell no one has mentioned Hydrogen powered vehicles. The only emission is clean water. A hydrogen powered car would comfortably tow a caravan.

 

[otherclive]

I did mention hydrogen many posts back and there was a brief discussion on them. I think there could be a use for them but mainstream cars will probably all be electric; like it or not. Glad I started my motoring experience in the 1960s with an eclectic mix of cars and bikes over the years. One thing I don't miss is the regular weekend exposure to Holts Cataloy.

 

[Martin24]

Three children, it's their problem, I'm glad I'm in the process of buying my last tow car so selfishly I'm not going to worry about it. SWMBO may buy another some time after 2040 but only if I haven't worn her out first.