The Hydrogen Powered Vehicle??

[Dustydog]

With wind and solar, you are not being held to ransom. You are experiencing freedom from the ransom that you are paying the whole of the rest of the time. These are different things

The reason for my OP was for interest in technology development in the real working setting.I am sure JCB have considered the storage and production of H otherwise what’s the point of the exercise.

I really thought we had all grown out of the EV / ICE debates on cost and pollution etc.🙀

My old boss told me back in the 70 s “ there is no such thing as a free lunch”.😎

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hydrogen is also one of the most abundant gases in the universe so chances are of depleting sources is just about impossible and it is a better stop gap than solar and wind farms. Also a lot cheaper to convert an ICE vehicle to gas than to convert it to battery only. It also means that possibly trillions will be saved by not scrapping old vehicles.

With wind and solar we are being held to ransom by nature when wind does not blow and there is no sunshine and it is greedy people building these wind and solar farms so nothing different there.

Hydrogen may be the most abundant gas in the universe, but that is totally irrelevant as so far no one has worked ut how to collect it from th euniverse beyond our world. It how accessible it is in our world that is the problem. As I pointed out if we try to take natural Hydrogen from under ground, once its been used its gone, and just as with coal and oil, it has a finite quantity. Just like Lidl's Middle Isle once its gone its gone!

Its irresponsible usage of natural reserves that has accelerated the world climate change problems, why start to use another, when there are viable alternatives.

It questionable if Hydrogen would be a better stop gap, if it were It would have already been exploited more, but it hasn't becasue its not viable as there is so little infrastructure or engineering around to use it for Transport, and many other applications.

If you research Hydrogen uses, you will discover that huge amounts are already constantly being used in lots of other processes, so if natural stored hydrogen was a viable source, why hasn't anybody stared already to exploit it? Simply because its very expensive to extract and control.

 

[otherclive]

With wind and solar, you are not being held to ransom. You are experiencing freedom from the ransom that you are paying the whole of the rest of the time. These are different things

The reason for my OP was for interest in technology development in the real working setting.I am sure JCB have considered the storage and production of H otherwise what’s the point of the exercise.

I really thought we had all grown out of the EV / ICE debates on cost and pollution etc.🙀

My old boss told me back in the 70 s “ there is no such thing as a free lunch”.😎

I actually think the thread has been conducted in a positive manner, with few if any contentious comments. But as things stand at present hydrogen may have a use for certain vehicle applications primarily at the heavier end of the range, or where electric charging facilities are not available.

When I was working the problem faced was how to get rid of hydrogen as a non required by product.

 

[Tobes]

With wind and solar, you are not being held to ransom. You are experiencing freedom from the ransom that you are paying the whole of the rest of the time. These are different things

The reason for my OP was for interest in technology development in the real working setting.I am sure JCB have considered the storage and production of H otherwise what’s the point of the exercise.

Agree - and I think it is an interesting post and development. Finding ways to power plant equipment without needing fossil fuel _is_ important.

I really thought we had all grown out of the EV / ICE debates on cost and pollution etc.🙀

My old boss told me back in the 70 s “ there is no such thing as a free lunch”.😎

This was not about ICE / EV, just a response to the comment that renewables hold us to ransom of nature.

 

[Dustydog]

This was not about ICE / EV, just a response to the comment that renewables hold us to ransom of nature.

And then what gets used to make EVs and so it all starts again😉. I sensed the start of the old chestnut raising its head but pleased you say otherwise👍

I’d like to know more how JCB intend using their H power kit in the field.

 

[otherclive]

Doing a quick search it’s quite clear that at the heavy end companies are seriously considering hydrogen. Komatsu have a medium digger with hydrogen fuel cell, a French port has container movers powered by hydrogen, and a company have converted some Liebherr construction machines to hydrogen. So momentum is growing.

 

[RogerL]

I actually think the thread has been conducted in a positive manner, with few if any contentious comments. But as things stand at present hydrogen may have a use for certain vehicle applications primarily at the heavier end of the range, or where electric charging facilities are not available.

When I was working the problem faced was how to get rid of hydrogen as a non required by product.

Hydrogen may find it's niche with off-grid development sites, where JCB vehicles are often found - it may well be more practical to have a tanker full of hydrogen delivered to site to refuel the construction trucks than organising a connection to the nearest point on the national grid capable of recharging all those construction trucks overnight.

 

[otherclive]

Hydrogen may find it's niche with off-grid development sites, where JCB vehicles are often found - it may well be more practical to have a tanker full of hydrogen delivered to site to refuel the construction trucks than organising a connection to the nearest point on the national grid capable of recharging all those construction trucks overnight.

Not dissimilar to a tanker turning up at leisure parks where Calor is used for heating and cooking for accordion and services.

 

[Tobes]

Not dissimilar to a tanker turning up at leisure parks where Calor is used for heating and cooking for accordion and services.

This is true, though tanking and delivering hydrogen is a very different proposition to tanking and delivering LPG.

It _may_ make sense for true off grid engineering (for example building HS2 or new roads), but for anything that is in arms reach of power, you potentially have the option for a local grid connected splitter for water or direct battery charging.

At the other end of the spectrum - I found this very interesting. Case are making battery powered plant equipment aimed at the landscaping and small building projects. Running for 8 hours and then having the possibility to fully recharge on a domestic supply for the next day seems totally usable.

View: https://youtu.be/VeQz8k2-lQk?si=1gPjp_B1OLKg3-bF

 

[Dustydog]

Out of idle curiosity I found This

There are lots of others too. Maybe Hydrogen powered vehicles are not so far away.
But cost may spoil the mix😜

 

[Tobes]

Out of idle curiosity I found This

There are lots of others too. Maybe Hydrogen powered vehicles are not so far away.
But cost may spoil the mix😜

Maybe According to this data sheet the plastic light weight (22KG) G20 cylinder holds 424g of hydrogen at 300 bar. Enough hydrogen to generate 7kWh of electricity with a
50% efficient fuel cell, or about 21 to 28 miles of range in an FCEV.

A hydrogen combustion engine is more like 30% efficient, so closer to 13 to 20 miles range.

The hydrogen costs just over £100 and (as far as I can tell) is not produced by electrolysis, but by steam reformation of methane (i.e. - it releases CO2). I.e. from a CO2 perspective, you may as well stick with diesel or LPG, which is also going to be something like 25 to 30 times cheaper.

On the other hand the £100 would buy something like 1400kWh of electricity at today's night time price, which is around 4200 to 5600 miles of range.

From an economics perspective, hydrogen has a long way to go to even catch up with fossil fuel - never mind battery solutions.