The Online Safety Act 2023

[Sam Vimes]

Someone mentioned that the fines were significant. That depends on who or what company is thats being fined.

Amazon's 2022 revenue was in the order of $513B yet under GDPR they were fined £631M or about $800M. So just less than half a days turnover.

Facebook for 2022 was $116B with GDPR fines totalling £50.3M.

Neither fines make much of a dent in their business.

 

[GUMPY]

x

Is it not a criminal act to plan a scam?


Well, that's a significant part of the problem. how can the authorities tell the difference between a genuine private message and a scammer?

If your not doing anything illegal then what's the problem? Granted its not a pleasant thought and I'd rather they wouldn't be able to, but it saves some poor souls from having their savings stolen or lives ruined.

Ah the old if you are not doing anything wrong what have you got to hide.

Possibly at the limit of what might happen but there is a law in the pipeline and the way it's written means you are not allowed to criticise the government, also protest is being limited. Under the online safety bill your personal discussions could be read and if you had been discussing or organising a protest against the government no matter how peaceful you could be arrested.
It's the start of a very slippery slope 😱

 

[otherclive]

I don't know if it made the final law but there were bits in the bill outlawing encrypted messaging, bit of a blow for WhatsApp, and allowing government agency's to look into personal stuff online such as banking etc. There is more that I can't remember.
I'm my view much if it was originally written to remove individual privacy from government intrusion.

I’m not sure where you get your final conclusion from? What evidence do you have that it was written to allow Government intrusion into personal privacy. Already government agencies can access your bank accounts and finances. How do you think HMRC go about investigating potential fraud. Benefits and Child Maintenance too.

If you shop or search online you are continually tracked. Loyalty csrrds, payment cards, your mobile too are giving information to private companies. When out and about you are under continuous surveillance even more now with door cameras. Companies such as Deepface can (if interested) use your facial features to data mine public data sources to show where you were at what dates if you post pictures on public sites.
Cars are to be fitted with data gathering of emissions and real time reporting.

So a bit more HMG delving into your privacy seems minimal compared to what is available on you already.

 

[Dustydog]

Is it an offence to plan a scam? At point does it become a scam? You can plan to rob a bank, but i don't think that is a criminal offence unless you carry out the plan. It would be interesting to know and worth discussing.

You can be prosecuted for a conspiracy offence if there is evidence to show that you were involved in the planning of an activity which resulted in ,or could have resulted in, a criminal offence taking place.
Sam comments on the big boys turnover. But the fine per individual occurrence is £18 m. The number of occurrences could be huge so the hurt to the company’s budget may hurt.
It is possible also the big boys may be forced to pay back to the injured party the amount of the scam . I wonder what the Banks and Credit card companies have to say?

 

[Buckman]

Sam comments on the big boys turnover. But the fine per individual occurrence is £18 m. The number of occurrences could be huge so the hurt to the company’s budget may hurt.

The Act provides Ofcom with powers to impose penalties of £18m or 10 per cent of a company’s global turnover, whichever is the highest.

 

[Jcloughie]

I am surprised that some members make assumptions that the act will be poor in one way or another.

In my opinion. It is well overdue. Yes it will be difficult to police, but lots of legislation is designed to be self policing. Claimants using it either after, or during a scam, and testing the wording through the courts. Acts nowadays tend to be not cast in stone. but allow for development in the real world.

It appears to me to have criminal and civil implications. The protection of children the most important, in my opinion.

It could well be a few years before a decent judgement could be made. But is the alternative to do nothing?

John

 

[Dustydog]

The Act provides Ofcom with powers to impose penalties of £18m or 10 per cent of a company’s global turnover, whichever is the highest.

But is that per annum or per case where legislation has been breached.I believe it is the latter.. I can’t believe any legislation would limit fines per annum which are so low compared to annual turnover

 

[GUMPY]

I am surprised that some members make assumptions that the act will be poor in one way or another

Is there any legislation that has been introduced by the complete shower of incompetents that masquerade as a government that hasn't been poorly drafted or executed?
I can't think of anything.

 

[Jcloughie]

Is there any legislation that has been introduced by the complete shower of incompetents that masquerade as a government that hasn't been poorly drafted or executed?
I can't think of anything.

“Assumptions’ still stand.

Legislation is rarely right straight out of the box. But it is a start. Also, it will be mostly (if not wholly) written by non-politicians. The politicians just instigating and voting and directing.

What would you prefer to happen? Or should we just leave things in the ever depreciating way they are now?

John

 

[otherclive]

Is there any legislation that has been introduced by the complete shower of incompetents that masquerade as a government that hasn't been poorly drafted or executed?
I can't think of anything.

What about CRA2015.

 

[GUMPY]

What about CRA2015.

Nice try, but that was in a previous parliament and was introduced by the junior coalition partner the Lib Dems. 😎

 

[Dustydog]

Nice try, but that was in a previous parliament and was introduced by the junior coalition partner the Lib Dems. 😎

That’s a very strange approach to such an important Consumer Law. It got through The House of Commons and the House of Lords because all the members irrespective of party allegiance knew it was Good Law. Isn‘t that what Government is about😎

 

[GUMPY]

That’s a very strange approach to such an important Consumer Law. It got through The House of Commons and the House of Lords because all the members irrespective of party allegiance knew it was Good Law. Isn‘t that what Government is about😎

Yes that is what good government is about.
I would not class the present shower as a good government.

 

[RogerL]

Is it an offence to plan a scam? At point does it become a scam? You can plan to rob a bank, but i don't think that is a criminal offence unless you carry out the plan. It would be interesting to know and worth discussing.

Many offences have a "conspiracy to commit ....." but not all.

 

[Buckman]

Yes that is what good government is about.
I would not class the present shower as a good government.

Or any of the past ones however discussing politics is forbidden on this forum.