Time to name and shame

[HomerS1]

This is a rant against the lack of build quality and quality control of new caravans. We have a 2 year old Lunar, bought from new for well over £20,000. So far it's had all new external lights, replacement microwave, removal of fridge to fix a loose kitchen tap, replacement seal between toilet bowl and tank, and currently waiting for new unit for top of toilet to prevent pink from leaking between the bowls. Our friends 2 year old Lunar is currently in the workshop having its entire front end re-sealed due to chronic damp and has already had all the graphics replaced due to strange crinkling. My wife's sister and her husband have a year old Lunar. After 6 months the floor failed and they are currently waiting to find out if it has to be taken back to the factory to be fixed (entire axle and motor mover to be removed). They also have damp in front locker. While we were waiting to book ours in for the last warranty job another couple were picking up their 1 year old Coachman which was having the front end sorted for leaking and damp. They had no confidence in the van and were going to part exchange for a new caravan of a different make. Why do we put up with this crap?

 

[pensioner]

I asked the same question 2 years ago shortly after we picked up our Lunar,,thankfully not nearly as many problems as you,,there seems to be NO quality control checks at any stage of production.

Not sure what the long term solution is apart from voting with our wallets.

 

[ProfJohnL]

...Not sure what the long term solution is apart from voting with our wallets.

Voting with your wallet is one way, and if sufficient customers did that, then it would certainly make a dent in some manufacturers pockets.

But the problem is; there is nothing stopping manufactures making poor quality products becasue they are not legally answerable to customers. However Dealers are contractually required to sell only good product, Every time they sell a defective product they are in breach of contract which can be legally enforced through the Consumer Rights Act.

If when you reported the faults in your caravan, did the dealer ask if you wanted them repaired under your statutory rights or under the manufacturers guarantee? Ill bet not, in which case the dealer has assumed you want the repair under the manufacturers guarantee which shifts the liability from the dealer to the manufacturer.

Whilst you may feel this is good becasue the ultimate responsibility lies with the manufacturer, its actually letting the dealer off the hook. The dealer has broken their contract and the law with you by allowing faulty goods to pass through their hands. Where as they should have either rejected the faulty caravan back to their supplier or fully fixed it before it was passed to the customer.

Customers with faulty caravans should contact their seller and insist the matter is handled under the sale of Goods Act for purchased made before Oct 2015 and the Consumer rights Act if purchased after Oct 2015.

The more dealers are made to realise THEY risk the consequences if the sell faulty goods the more they will endeavour to do what they are payed for and to put pressure on their suppliers and manufactures to up the game.

Use your legal rights to work for you.

 

[Hutch]

Prof, Thank you yet again for information for people as to who is responsible for problems about purchases. As yet I have had no real problems with dealers apart from a Coachman dealer in my are that could not even see me for at least 4 months on a warranty claim.

But on a maybe helpfull line, we had a problem with a large hotel booking company and a complaint about a hotel. The company www.Resolver.co.uk its a free service and helps on claims on all sorts o problems

 

[DrZhivago]

Not sure what the long term solution is apart from voting with our wallets.

Voting with wallets does not work with things bought at relatively long intervals (like caravans), because the time interval beween purchases is so long. The quality (and even ownership) of a given company can change completely between purchases.

Of course there are reports by others to go by, which the internet helps (such as this very thread), but you can always find contradictory reports too; including astroturfing and mischief, and to get to the bottom of things takes far more time and effort than Joe Average (who dominates the market) is prepared to spend.

I call the unwavering belief in wallet voting the "Grantham Grocer Fallacy" because You-Know-Who witnessed it keeping the grocers of Grantham on their toes during her formative years, and led to her "the market knows best" policies and deprecation of formal quality standards. But the feedback loop in the small-town grocery retail trade involves only a few days, not months or years.

 

[Martin24]

Have to wonder why, with all the problems you catalogue with your van, your sister in law went and bought from the same manufacturers?

 

[thosoneill]

Having compared hymer/eriba - burstner - fendt - tab - I doubt if I'd ever buy a new British built caravan

 

[HomerS1]

The van is lovely, other than those problems. They wanted a reasonably light weight, fixed Island bed van and the Lunar ticked all the boxes. My microwave is Daewoo and the toilet Dometic. Different suppliers in their van. Guess Lunar learnt their lesson. My thoughts are that once I've sorted all the problems (and hopefully we're just about there) we'll have a solid van worth keeping. Buying a new model from a different manufacturer is no guarantee of anything trouble free. When in France last year a group 5 Brits on tour, all with vans less than 2 years old, we all listed our problems. Coachman, Bailey, Swift and Compass were all as bad or worse than ours.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Prof, Thank you yet again for information for people as to who is responsible for problems about purchases. As yet I have had no real problems with dealers apart from a Coachman dealer in my are that could not even see me for at least 4 months on a warranty claim.

But on a maybe helpfull line, we had a problem with a large hotel booking company and a complaint about a hotel. The company www.Resolver.co.uk its a free service and helps on claims on all sorts o problems

Hello Hutch,
If your repair was being carried out under the manufacturers guarantee, there is no time limit for repairs to start, becasue teh process is controilled under teh T&C of the Manufacturers warranty. IF you had insisted on the repair to be carried out under SoGA or the more recent CRA, the seller must inconvenience the customer as little as possible, AND the repair does not have to be sanctioned by the manufacturer, so they cant use that excuse to delay it.

 

[alan29]

All caravan manufacturers seem to expect customers to do their quality control for them. The dealers expect the same.
Nothing will change unless there is an organised effort at putting the spotlight onto this issue.
And the people to organise it ie the Clubs and magazines won't do that for fear of affecting their advertising revenue.

 

[Raywood]

Not sure naming and shaming works. They all turn out a fair proportion of rubbish and broadcasting it on here or other forums does not work as they all seem to ignore it. Frankly the only way to up quality is claim for everything and take out a small claims summons where needed so that the cost of getting it wrong costs more than getting it right.
It amazes me the way some people allow themselves to be fobbed off for often major repairs..

 

[Hutch]

Hi Prof , my repair was done By Coachman, but the warranty claim was done through Direct Lesuire repairs, in Nottinghamshire, Wayne Cristensenn, hope have that correct . He was not my local dealer but can do all repairs, I can recommened him highly.
You do not have to go through the dealer you bought you van through.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hi Prof , my repair was done By Coachman, but the warranty claim was done through Direct Lesuire repairs, in Nottinghamshire, Wayne Cristensenn, hope have that correct . He was not my local dealer but can do all repairs, I can recommened him highly.
You do not have to go through the dealer you bought you van through.

Hello Hutch,
The arrangements for using the CRA or the older SoGA by dictates the seller is responsible as that is with whom you had the purchase contract. That is process set in legislative concrete and cannot be changed.

In most cases new caravans are also sole with a Manufacturers Guarantee that you have to assign to as a separate contract. It is a common feature of these that allows a user to have certain warranty repairs carried out by any convenient participating agent. This is entirely separate to your statutory rights, and can never undermine them. By taking your caravan to another agent rather than your seller, you are automatically accessing the Manufacturers process,

If you had gone to your seller, you have the right to choose whether to use your statutory rights or the manufacturers guarantee. Sadly most dealers will not ask you which process you want to use, and will preferentially put you on the manufactures scheme as it a lower cost option for them. However if the manufacturers scheme is too slow, you can always invoke your statutory rights at any time in the process.

 

[RayS]

It is tempting to agree that the quality of German vans is superior and my past ownership of a Burstner confirms this. But they are fitted with the same range of heating, water heaters, toilets, fridgee etc. as are UK built vans and I suggest that quite a large percentage of complaints are due to these rather than to body construction, so you may not escape the problems by buying German.

I concur with the advice from Prof. John about using consumer protection legislation. Unfortunately though, I tried this about 4 years ago and when push came to shove was unable to find a solicitor prepared to act for me even though the Law Society website identified 8 law offices in my area that claimed to offer this service. CAB just advised - find a lawyer. Trading standards said they had had no other complaints and therefore would not get involved. Wonderful.

 

[Raywood]

You can take out a small claims action if your claim is under £10,000 except Scotland where it is 5 and you do not need a solicitor. The system is relatively straightforward and cost very little. Basically defending these claims is so expensive for the defence that in almost all cases you will get an offer.

 

[RayS]

Thanks other Ray.At the time I was trying to reject the whole caravan so the sum was considerably over the small claims court limit - hence the search for a solicitor.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Just for clarity the CRA does not set any limits on the size of a claim, But as Ray S has pointed out there is a claim limit on the Small claims process. To use the CRA on contracts over £10K you cannot use the small claims system.

JUst as an aside I came across this document

https://www.businesscompanion.info/sites/default/files/The supply of services_ALL_BIS_SERVICES_GUIDANCE_SEP15.pdf
Its quite interesting to see the issues from the traders side. :blink: