To the Powers that be. The absence of a PM (Personal Message)facility.

[Soozeeg]

I'm just wondering whether the techies actually know about this topic.......do they ever actually look at anything other than the 'Our Website' section? (I think it was previously mentioned by them that they don't!!).

Parksy, you mentioned that you were going to bring it to their attention......can I ask if you have? I know you made mention of it in 'Our Website', but presumably they haven't looked at that either!

 

[ProfJohnL]

From a personal point of view, I don’t see a need for an IM or PM facility on this forum. The moderators do a great job of passing on personal emails or addresses when asked.

I will ask you to think back to incidents that have occurred where for one reason or another one or group of contributors have openly displayed a dislike to the postings of others, and the issues with trolls cyber bullying. Give these undesirables the methods to attack genuine contributors and there would be a lot of ill will generated.

It is also a possibility that the Forum owner could be held responsible for transmitting the content of undesirable messages.

I predict that if PM’s or IM’s were introduced the flavour of the forum would take a turn for the worse.

Those of you who want to communicate with each other already have plenty of other methods to do so, to be a forum member you have to supply an E mail address so just ask the Mods to pass that information on and they usually will do it.

We have had to wait a twentieth of century for this current engine, and whilst it does seen the techies are trying to improve things, don’t expect miracles even at Christmas time.

Happy Christmas

 

[Parksy]

I'm just wondering whether the techies actually know about this topic.......do they ever actually look at anything other than the 'Our Website' section? (I think it was previously mentioned by them that they don't!!).

Parksy, you mentioned that you were going to bring it to their attention......can I ask if you have? I know you made mention of it in 'Our Website', but presumably they haven't looked at that either!

Hi Sue
I sent an email containing links to this topic at 08:00 this morning so that technical staff could have the opportunity to comment or provide information if they wanted to. I haven't noticed any comment in this topic and they haven't acknowledged or replied to my message so far so I can only assume that they are all very busy.

From a personal point of view, I don’t see a need for an IM or PM facility on this forum. The moderators do a great job of passing on personal emails or addresses when asked. I will ask you to think back to incidents that have occurred where for one reason or another one or group of contributors have openly displayed a dislike to the postings of others, and the issues with trolls cyber bullying. Give these undesirables the methods to attack genuine contributors and there would be a lot of ill will generated. It is also a possibility that the Forum owner could be held responsible for transmitting the content of undesirable messages. I predict that if PM’s or IM’s were introduced the flavour of the forum would take a turn for the worse. Those of you who want to communicate with each other already have plenty of other methods to do so, to be a forum member you have to supply an E mail address so just ask the Mods to pass that information on and they usually will do it. We have had to wait a twentieth of century for this current engine, and whilst it does seen the techies are trying to improve things, don’t expect miracles even at Christmas time. Happy Christmas

Thank you John, I'm happy to forward email addresses by request provided I have confirmed consent but this is an ad hoc voluntary service and sometimes I'm not around. Damian leads a very busy life and he might not always see these requests until some time has passed.
If a PM facility were ever to be introduced, and there are no indications that there will be, members would need to have the ability to block undesirable or inappropriate PM's.
If there were instances of 'cyber bullying' or the 'hounding' of members by others, moderators would deal with it immediately as would be the case on the open forum. May I take this opportunity to remind members that if they ever feel bullied or subject to undesirable attention on the forum the facility already exists to contact moderators and also to report inappropriate user generated content privately without the need to submit forum posts to highlight such activity.
The flavour of this forum is entirely dependent on it's membership, by and large it is friendly and helpful and moderators are only required to intervene in cases of repeated rule breaking which are thankfully rare.
If PM's were strictly private they would be unmoderated and therefore there would be no legal implications for the site owners because responsibility is only assumed in the case of moderated user generated content.
Any PM facility wouldn't be intended to replace the open forum but it would be extremely useful whenever forum members wanted to contact each other directly, in the case of the sale of used accessories for example.
I'm grateful for the vast improvements made to this website and forum and I've learned never to expect miracles at any time but if forum members feel that their suggestions might improve this forum or make it more user friendly then perhaps those with the wherewithal to say yes or no might be so good as to render their opinion?

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

It is also a possibility that the Forum owner could be held responsible for transmitting the content of undesirable messages.

I predict that if PM’s or IM’s were introduced the flavour of the forum would take a turn for the worse.

I will predict the opposite, a PM facility will enhance the forum and, as has been pointed out, will be an helpfool tool, not to just the members, but also the mods. The simplest PM tool should have a means of blocking anyone and if there is the rare occasion where someone sends a nasty PM it can be dealt with by the mods and no others members will be any the wiser.
BTW Prof, shush, don't mention the word 'responsible' regarding Haymarket. They are paranoid enough already ... heh! heh! heh!

 

[ShadySadie]

None of my other contacts can read the messages and they are not Public. I don't understand why you think these programs have to be Public.

I didn't say the messages are public, there was a suggestion that instead of an PM facility on this forum, users could use FB, Skype etc., for that to work your FB, Skype etc. ID would have to be publicly available (to both users & spammers)

If I open accounts using 'Shady Sadie.pc' on Face book or MSN messenger why would they have to be public?

You would also need to log in & out of the various counts to see if there are any PM, a faff most will not bother with

What details about 'Shady Sadie.pc' could be sold?

At the simplest level, the fact that you have an interest in Caravaning.

How would they know who 'Shady Sadie.pc' is,

By storing & analysing what you search for & type (ever noticed how the adverts change in gmail as you type ?)

where I live

From your IP address that is sent to every site you visit.

or what my main email address is?

Spammers don't need to know your main e-mail address, any will do.

For forums and ebay and most net sales sites I use a Google email account, what can they do with that?

Build up a profile of you & your spending pattern to sell on to spammers.

If Face book or anyone else wanted to sell details on Shady Sadie, good luck to them

As someone who gets over 1,000 spam e-mails a day on my primary e-mail account, I don't want any more thanks.
The big money on the internet is selling very targeted advertising, whether by targeted web site advertising (something this site doesn't do) or by e-mail, the more information Google, Facebook et al know about you, the more valuable your profile information is.

There is no reason why ID's have to be publicly available Nick. You make it sound as though users here choosing to use another messaging site if PC will not supply one would be something dangerous and a one off. Not the case, my daughter is an EU lawyer and she and her colleagues use an IM site between staff around the world, their ID's are not public.
I don't have to log in and out of the sites we use to keep checking for messages, why would anyone else? When I turn on my PC, Lap Top or Phone they log in them selves and run in the back ground. When IM, email or Email arrive I get an alert. No "faff"ing around.
I sort of understand why there's been frustration in this thread. Some bad information gives some internet users wrong ideas that spread as cyberspace truth rather than myths.
PC went some way towards bringing the forum up to current standards, they should just add messaging and be done with it.

I use Google email, I don't use Google toolbars or systems and use other more secure email, I don't use google mail for purchasing. I use it to redirect the spam and filter rubbish. Google can tell the whole world that Shadie Sadie has a caravan. That's not going to help anyone as they still don't know who I am or where I live.
Nick If you use your IP's modem that may be why you have so much spam mail. Just use a more secure modem and system, as you seem a little paranoid about your security. At the moment my IP address shows as Douglas Isle of Man, if I can be tracked down there good luck to Google, I went there over thirty years ago and I've never been there again.

 

[Soozeeg]

If we had PMs on here, Sadie and Nick could have their long discussions about 'security issues' etc on social networking sites off the board...........

 

[Surfer]

Many of the other foums I belong to are managed by people who are doing ti on their own at their own cost. These forums send notifications when someone replies to a post where you have subscribed, you have a PM system in place, a search facility that brings up all new posts in all the forums, etc.
It just seems amazing that a company like Haymarket cannot move into the 21st century with their website and forums.

 

[NickinFrance]

If we had PMs on here, Sadie and Nick could have their long discussions about 'security issues' etc on social networking sites off the board...........

If there were a PM system, the discussion wouldn't have got started in the first place

 

[Soozeeg]

If there were a PM system, the discussion wouldn't have got started in the first place

LMAO!! Very true, Nick

 

[NickinFrance]

There is no reason why ID's have to be publicly available Nick.

To make them available for members to send PM via another system, they do.

I don't have to log in and out of the sites we use to keep checking for messages, why would anyone else?........ No "faff"ing around.

You said ' If I open accounts using Shady Sadie.pc' which I read as a separate account just for PC messages.

they should just add messaging and be done with it.

Yep

Google can tell the whole world that Shadie Sadie has a caravan. That's not going to help anyone as they still don't know who I am or where I live.

That does help sell mailing list of people who have a caravan

Nick If you use your IP's modem that may be why you have so much spam mail. Just use a more secure modem and system

I've no idea what an IP or 'more secure' modem is, could you explain ?
The reason I get so much spam on that account is because it is almost 20 years old & must by now be on almost every spam mailing list known to mankind.

At the moment my IP address shows as Douglas Isle of Man,

That's unusual for the UK

 

[ShadySadie]

1. No they don't. On the accounts we use our accounts user names are only accessed by people we a know and allow access, every Tom Dick or Mary do not have access to us, nor can they send spam to us.
2. I wouldn't give Facebook or Skype access to forum members here on my famil/business accounts. I'd be happy to have a seperate account such as Shady Sadiepc for use to with this forum.
3. But this is PC, they took an age to get rid of the steam drive forum

4. ? "does help sell mailing list of people who have caravan" ? No good without correct name or address, caravanners enter online comps and fill in other online forms and that info can be sold, If Parksy or Damian decided to turn rogue

they could sell on your details Nick as could this sites techies.
So we may not see you again Nick.
5. IP or ISP. Internet Provider or Internet Service Provider. BT and others provide modems and programs for browsing and security. A modem can have a fixed IP address or offer variable IP address settings so your IP address changes. ISP modems usually have a fixed IP address.
Run your email address via something like MS Outlook rather than you ISP's own mail program, set the spam setting on the providers web mail system and then MS Outlook also filters anything that gets past them. That's why we get so few spam mails.
If you buy a more advanced modem they can also provide other blocking technology and you can buy IP masking programs. We have a family in house computer consultant and my husband has worked with some of the best computer geeks so we get good independent advice and help.
BT is our provider, but we've never used their equipment or in house programs and we have no problems.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

While asking for a PM messaging facility could I be as bold as to ask the techies for a Chat Room pretty please

If we had one Nick and Sadie could really 'get a room'

... heh! heh! heh!

 

[Parksy]

While asking for a PM messaging facility could I be as bold as to ask the techies for a Chat Room pretty please

I'm not too sure that the techies are listening Lord B. Maybe they've been kept away by the snow or they are enjoying a long holiday courtesy of Lord Hezza?
Chat rooms on forums are the root of all evil anyway, if it hadn't have been for chat rooms and various private sections where character assassinations were carried out a caravan forum which recently met it's demise could have killed this forum stone dead a long time ago!

 

[Soozeeg]

Chat room? Are you having a laugh, LB? I guess you are, since you have always said you think they're the devil's playground (or another suitably graphic description, hehe).

All this longwinded in-depth postulating about Facebook/Skype/IM thingys is detracting from the main point......which was, to bring it to the fore again (not that the techies are taking any notice!!!!!) having a PM facility on here.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Chat room? Are you having a laugh, LB? I guess you are, since you have always said you think they're the devil's playground (or another suitably graphic description, hehe).

Did anyone ever see me in the chatroom that Steve mentioned Sooze? I think you know the answer to that and my thoughts on that particular chatroom were well known in the posts I made in that forum regarding the problems with it such as the arguments and people either leaving of their own free will or being banned . I'm afraid the boss, or should that be ex-boss, disagreed with me so I was obviously wrong

What that forum did have though was far superior tools/facilities than this one, and that forum was an off the shelf one, whether it was posting, loading pics, PMs, sending emails to someone without knowing their addy, icons, read latest posts, search base and faster. Those who used it will know what I mean and no doubt I've missed something off the list.
Still, beggars can't be choosers

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

if it hadn't have been for chat rooms and various private sections where character assassinations were carried out a caravan forum which recently met it's demise could have killed this forum stone dead a long time ago!

What it needed Steve was that forum engine being used on here.

If you recall, that's if you were there then ... heh! heh! heh! the boss added the chatroom so it wasn't something you would have to have. Thankfully.
What is beyond me though is an ordinary bloke like Gary could run that out of his own pocket so it must be a reseanable price, way within Haymarket Towers means.

 

[Soozeeg]

Oh I agree with you LB, that forum you're referring to was brilliant and I always said that, despite the problems (which were to do with people, not the forum itself).

I know you didn't use the chatroom, that's why I said what I did about it, lol

 

[OmOnWeelz]

SORRY
I only suggested that if Practical Caravan are not prepared to offer some form of messaging between forum members that there are other ways to do it. I didn't expect a ludite style response with internet users expecting to lose their homes and life savings and that social network or voip users are seen as half brained son's and daughter's of satan

like me

If there was a messaging system on this forum and a member had a computer related problem I guess the messaging system would carry the blame for many here. It is probably best not to have one at all and leave well alone.

 

[Soozeeg]

SORRY
I only suggested that if Practical Caravan are not prepared to offer some form of messaging between forum members that there are other ways to do it. I didn't expect a ludite style response with internet users expecting to lose their homes and life savings and that social network or voip users are seen as half brained son's and daughter's of satan

like me

If there was a messaging system on this forum and a member had a computer related problem I guess the messaging system would carry the blame for many here. It is probably best not to have one at all and leave well alone.

What ARE you talking about?

 

[Parksy]

if it hadn't have been for chat rooms and various private sections where character assassinations were carried out a caravan forum which recently met it's demise could have killed this forum stone dead a long time ago!

What it needed Steve was that forum engine being used on here.

If you recall, that's if you were there then ... heh! heh! heh! the boss added the chatroom so it wasn't something you would have to have. Thankfully.
What is beyond me though is an ordinary bloke like Gary could run that out of his own pocket so it must be a reseanable price, way within Haymarket Towers means.

Yes, I was there when the chatroom was opened and later with The Hot Tub although neither were to my taste. The Hot Tub did us here on PCv forum a favour because all of the stuff which was too contentious for here went over to there.
As Sue mentioned, the problems arose because of the actions of various people but the sheer functionality and user friendliness of that forum was the best that I've seen anywhere.
Gary had offered to build Haymarket a similar website way back but they didn't want to know. We were lucky here that the other forum went downwards and outwards instead of 'onwards and upwards', at one time he was drawing members from most caravan forums but mainly from this one

The fundamental flaw was when the guy wrote on his own forum something like he wouldn't care at all if his original members left because he could soon get plenty more. Schoolboy error! They took him at his word and left in droves. No amount of bitching about this forum in general and me in particular in his hot tub could save the situation for him after that because
no members = no forum

I suppose that we should be grateful that we on PCv have a website at all, it's 100% better than it was with the old format anyway even though there are still bits missing.

 

[NickinFrance]

I will not drag out the discussion with Shady Sadie except to say that she is factually wrong with some of the last paragraph of her last message.

The fundamental flaw was when the guy wrote on his own forum something like he wouldn't care at all if his original members left because he could soon get plenty more

I've set-up & looked after the technical side of many BBS/Forums over the years & they have almost always failed because the person who runs it acts like a little Hitler & keeps threatening to throw their toys out of the pram, sounds like the one you mentioned as about par for the course.
As far as setting up a Forum, a phpBB or similar system with far more facilities that this one, would take 2 or 3 hours to install & set-up, depending on how easy it is to import the user database & old message base into the new system.
This is the only caravan forum I read, mainly because the Moderators aren't the typical self-opinionated bullies that run Forums.

 

[LMH]

I will not drag out the discussion with Shady Sadie except to say that she is factually wrong with some of the last paragraph of her last message.

The fundamental flaw was when the guy wrote on his own forum something like he wouldn't care at all if his original members left because he could soon get plenty more

I've set-up & looked after the technical side of many BBS/Forums over the years & they have almost always failed because the person who runs it acts like a little Hitler & keeps threatening to throw their toys out of the pram, sounds like the one you mentioned as about par for the course.
As far as setting up a Forum, a phpBB or similar system with far more facilities that this one, would take 2 or 3 hours to install & set-up, depending on how easy it is to import the user database & old message base into the new system.
This is the only caravan forum I read, mainly because the Moderators aren't the typical self-opinionated bullies that run Forums.

Yep, that's correct.

Lisa

 

[Parksy]

I will not drag out the discussion with Shady Sadie except to say that she is factually wrong with some of the last paragraph of her last message.

The fundamental flaw was when the guy wrote on his own forum something like he wouldn't care at all if his original members left because he could soon get plenty more

I've set-up & looked after the technical side of many BBS/Forums over the years & they have almost always failed because the person who runs it acts like a little Hitler & keeps threatening to throw their toys out of the pram, sounds like the one you mentioned as about par for the course.

The guy in question isn't here to defend himself so in his defence maybe he couldn't see the wood for the trees.

As far as setting up a Forum, a phpBB or similar system with far more facilities that this one, would take 2 or 3 hours to install & set-up, depending on how easy it is to import the user database & old message base into the new system.
This is the only caravan forum I read, mainly because the Moderators aren't the typical self-opinionated bullies that run Forums.

The tekkies who set up this forum had to work to fit in with the other Haymarket owned forums and many of those are not 'social forums' like this one so they don't need a PM facility. Maybe thats why no PM facility was included in this set up.
It's very nice of you to heap such fullsome praise on us Nick, thanks very much. I doubt if your observations would be universally accepted but we try our best

 

[JonnyG]

Actually i found the guy in question very level headed,and I would say the same of parksy if we were on another site, but then they do say its opposites that attract and the sames repel.

never used a chat room cannot recall if i have ever PM'd anyone but they do say if you stand still you get run over, so maybe for now all is well here,but should the site not be forward thinking, or at least trying to keep up with the jones's?
It has a huge advantage in being able to draw people in from its publications, not just from word of mouth, it needs to utilise this advantage, and after reading what parksy said earlier about a possible demise because of another forum, I was left somewhat surprised by that statement.
Should that not serve as a lesson? that this site cannot be complacent or backwards?

 

[Soozeeg]

Jonny, you and I have exchanged PMs on another forum way back when