Torque wrenches!

[Mel]

How much does it matter if it is not completely accurate ( within a couple of Newtons either way, I don’t mean random wild fluctuations.)
I appreciate that many engineers will be hyperventilating at this point.
But my argument is this: In an engineering context, calibration and complete accuracy is vital as many other calculations could be based on this measurement. However in a Caravanning context the point of a torque wrench is to counter the anxiety that the wheels are going to drop off. Arguing that in actual fact the wheels are not going to drop off and this anxiety is irrational is completely irrelevant as human beings are driven by less than rational anxiety all the time. Hence if the torque wrench is a Newton or so out either way; is this going to cause the wheels to drop off. I would imagine not. Wheel drop off anxiety is reduced and the device has fulfilled its function.
BTW. This argument is applicable in lots of contexts where the numbers may say one thing but the human need for comfort causes a different behaviour. Sunk cost fallacy for example

I’m going to run and hide now
Mel

 

[otherclive]

How much does it matter if it is not completely accurate ( within a couple of Newtons either way, I don’t mean random wild fluctuations.)
I appreciate that many engineers will be hyperventilating at this point.
But my argument is this: In an engineering context, calibration and complete accuracy is vital as many other calculations could be based on this measurement. However in a Caravanning context the point of a torque wrench is to counter the anxiety that the wheels are going to drop off. Arguing that in actual fact the wheels are not going to drop off and this anxiety is irrational is completely irrelevant as human beings are driven by less than rational anxiety all the time. Hence if the torque wrench is a Newton or so out either way; is this going to cause the wheels to drop off. I would imagine not. Wheel drop off anxiety is reduced and the device has fulfilled its function.
BTW. This argument is applicable in lots of contexts where the numbers may say one thing but the human need for comfort causes a different behaviour. Sunk cost fallacy for example

I’m going to run and hide now
Mel

Like availability of petrol and diesel. Falsely generated anxiety.

 

[Jcloughie]

Like availability of petrol and diesel. Falsely generated anxiety.

My anxiety was generated by one of my wheels coming off on a Normandy D road at 55 mph!

John

 

[otherclive]

My anxiety was generated by one of my wheels coming off on a Normandy D road at 55 mph!

John

To a certain extent the caravan community has generated their own concerns. For years I never had a torque wrench, I assume the service engineers had put the wheels back on properly. Just like my car service garage. Did they use a torque wrench? I know not. If I removed the wheels I just tightened them up as tight as I could using the supplied wrench. It seems the anxiety hit worse as alloy wheels came into favour, and Bailey had a spell of detached wheels.
I have a torque wrench and I would just check the wheels after service, and then only each time it was removed from storage before a trip. If I had to remove a wheel for any reason I would recheck the torque after around 25 miles. But as I say for many years they were never checked, just tightened up as tight as I could.
I had a wheel detach on a minivan but I’d forgotten to tighten it up in the first place. So it didn’t cause anxiety only sheer annoyance at my stupidity. 😀

 

[Jcloughie]

To a certain extent the caravan community has generated their own concerns. For years I never had a torque wrench, I assume the service engineers had put the wheels back on properly. Just like my car service garage. Did they use a torque wrench? I know not. If I removed the wheels I just tightened them up as tight as I could using the supplied wrench. It seems the anxiety hit worse as alloy wheels came into favour, and Bailey had a spell of detached wheels.
I have a torque wrench and I would just check the wheels after service, and then only each time it was removed from storage before a trip. If I had to remove a wheel for any reason I would recheck the torque after around 25 miles. But as I say for many years they were never checked, just tightened up as tight as I could.
I had a wheel detach on a minivan but I’d forgotten to tighten it up in the first place. So it didn’t cause anxiety only sheer annoyance at my stupidity. 😀

I have never understood why detachments seemed to happen to Bailey more than other makes when, for most vans the chassis are identical. Mine came off on a 1500kg Bailey. When I changed to a 1500kg Lunar I asked if Lunar objected to me fitting WSL bolts. They said “no, but Lunars do not have a problem like Bailey do” (but they would say that).
After the detachment I went to a prominent Bailey dealer for repair. The workshop manager had stats he had collected to show it happened to Swift’s just as regularly. At least Bailey were pro-active in fitting WSL bolts as standard.

I also discovered that Continental caravans use identical hub castings to UK caravans. But that the threaded holes for the bolts are 2 mm larger in diameter.

I believe that is where the UK problem lies.

Up until the detachment I did as you suggest. No problem for over 30 years. And for most of that time I never used a torque wrench.



John

 

[otherclive]

I have never understood why detachments seemed to happen to Bailey more than other makes when, for most vans the chassis are identical. Mine came off on a 1500kg Bailey. When I changed to a 1500kg Lunar I asked if Lunar objected to me fitting WSL bolts. They said “no, but Lunars do not have a problem like Bailey do” (but they would say that).
After the detachment I went to a prominent Bailey dealer for repair. The workshop manager had stats he had collected to show it happened to Swift’s just as regularly. At least Bailey were pro-active in fitting WSL bolts as standard.

I also discovered that Continental caravans use identical hub castings to UK caravans. But that the threaded holes for the bolts are 2 mm larger in diameter.

I believe that is where the UK problem lies.

Up until the detachment I did as you suggest. No problem for over 30 years. And for most of that time I never used a torque wrench.



John

Makes you wonder why UK bolt hole sizes differed from continental vans with ostensibly the same duty and component supplier. Wonder where that placed Adria supplying UK vans from Slovenia?

 

[Jcloughie]

Makes you wonder why UK bolt hole sizes differed from continental vans with ostensibly the same duty and component supplier. Wonder where that placed Adria supplying UK vans from Slovenia?

Good question, if I remember, UK is 14mm against Continental 16. I was told that the 14 mm gave a greater choice of wheel design. But I don’t know. I also find it strange that all UK have gone for 14. And was it a decision by the manufacturers or Alko, or joint. And who signed off on safety.

John

 

[Trevormc]

Well have been away first time this year. Done 30 miles and checked the wheel torque first time after new tyre and service, all bolts needed tightening when checked (also checked them before leaving home ).

So they need checking after each wheel removal and each service, 20 miles is stated , but I had done 30miles.

Trevor

 

[Beachball]

Well have been away first time this year. Done 30 miles and checked the wheel torque first time after new tyre and service, all bolts needed tightening when checked (also checked them before leaving home ).

So they need checking after each wheel removal and each service, 20 miles is stated , but I had done 30miles.

Trevor

Hope you had a nice time

 

[Trevormc]

Yes thanks BB.

First time away on own in 40+ years and off grid for the first time in 30+ years. Will be doing it again next year. Still looking for a few days away later this month, but with electrics this time of year.

Trevor

 

[Beachball]

Yes thanks BB.

First time away on own in 40+ years and off grid for the first time in 30+ years. Will be doing it again next year. Still looking for a few days away later this month, but with electrics this time of year.

Trevor

Hope you have a nice time where you decide to go